TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Menalque]

Unless Dats is town in which case I flip and its over they quickhammer

I think this is more likely bc I don’t think I ever indicated I would be down to vote ythan

[Menalque]

Let me look to be sure

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You get what I am doing right mena

I only need 1townie

[Menalque]

You get what I am doing right mena

I only need 1townie

Yes

Also, the Friday before I went away I gave koba’s solve which was Bella/ythan/jjh but i wouldn’t say dats jumped on that to try and sell me on ythan by any means

And then by Thursday last week I was explicit that we needed to flip jjh

[Menalque]

I now wish I hadn’t done the gambit last night of trying to add ythan again just in case bc I think if you/Mith are in PT then (1) you see how much dats and I were talking about game there esp on d2 and also (2) I think it’s very clearing for my slot individually because it adds context to what I was doing in main thread

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I also have concerns about that yes aha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Target mith with it tonight then

[Menalque]

I think if I we don’t win today then it’s a wifom game of who to add so I’m not gonna talk more about that unless you and Mith like, really want me to

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean

I'm confirmed confirmed town

Target mith. If they want to shoot mith to block this, and let me exist in ELO, They are welcome to

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Target mith and we gain advantage either way

[Menalque]

Well jingle agrees with that as well so I guess there’s really no reason not to

[Menalque]

Neighbouriser such an underrated role incidentally

So much more versatile and fun than it’s given credit for

[Menalque]

And not even mechanically useless! I would say!

[Bellaphant]

Mena, What's so frustrating for me is that I feel like you came into today saying 'this interaction with gimli looks bad for bella' and I proved to you a)it was the opposite and b) datisi and Ali have the interaction you think looks bad with the gimli speed wagon like ten posts apart, And your take away is still 'its more likely to be bella?'

Like, I was also partnered with imaginality, wasn't i? I don't know what's stopping you re-assessing.

Go back to those day one quotes.

[Bellaphant]

Target mith and we gain advantage either way

This is true

[Bellaphant]

@lld, is it mechanically better to just lim me? Because I'm not getting out of lylo alive with dats and mena.

[Menalque]

Mena, What's so frustrating for me is that I feel like you came into today saying 'this interaction with gimli looks bad for bella' and I proved to you a)it was the opposite and b) datisi and Ali have the interaction you think looks bad with the gimli speed wagon like ten posts apart, And your take away is still 'its more likely to be bella?'

Like, I was also partnered with imaginality, wasn't i? I don't know what's stopping you re-assessing.

Go back to those day one quotes.

I am pending re-examination of D1 and ideally D2, but yes, even in spite of all that I still think you’re more likely to be scum. Why? Because I just really think dats is town.

Like if this is the town-scum axis:

Town lld-Mith——datisi——————————Bella————————scum

Where I don’t feel super confident you’re scum but you’re just lower down

Then that maybe means the axis looks like this:

Town lld-Mith——datisi————Bella——————————————scum

So like, you move up relatively but I’m still more confident on dats being town

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@lld, is it mechanically better to just lim me? Because I'm not getting out of lylo alive with dats and mena.

we're always eliminating one of you/dats/mena

so tomorrow will look like

one of me and mith (minus the one scum kill) + 2 of you/dats/mena (minus the one we kill)

so it'd always be like you vs mena or you vs dats or dats vs mena with one of me or mith as the swing vote

which is why i wanna make double triple quad sure as my first action today to be 100000000% certain mith is town

which I probably will be?

[mith]

Yeah, let me know if you want me to address anything in particular. I think there quite a few reasons I wouldn’t have played D3 in particular that way as scum with Ali and jjh, but ultimately there’s always going to be a bit of WIFOM if I’m talking about my own potential scum play. ~shrug~

I’m a little annoyed that Mena did not neighborize LLD, having access to the neighborhood would make that side of things much easier to process. Mena, did you discuss your target at all with Datisi?

Datisi, D2: Explain the thought process for voting Ythan and then moving back to imaginality.

[Datisi]

Datisi, D2: Explain the thought process for voting Ythan and then moving back to imaginality.

d2 feels so far ago by now

i don't think there's much to explain. i thought imaginality was scummy and wanted him dead. but i also thought that ythan was playing sort of like her scumgame that i've seen a bit ago, that you are town (mena and i agreed on this in hood) and that the fact that you were one of the main wagons, if not the main wagon at the time, was Bad. and i also knew mena would also be willing to vote ythan with me, i think we'd talked about that in the hood as well.

also, i think i recall alisae being suspicious of ythan? (i'm not checking that iso) so it's like, ythan was a possible scum to me, i knew there was potential to get that wagon going there, and to stop the mith wagon in the meantime that i didn't like. and i also expected ythan to actually, like, *do things* as town that's getting wagoned.

like, i'm not a player that is always voting the person that i think has the biggest % chance of flipping scum. that was imag at the time, but i saw value in getting a ythan train going.

as for swapping back to imag - that vote didn't make sense to me rn looking at the main thread, but checking the hood, me and mena were discussing voting ythan vs voting imag, and we eventually settled to imag being more likely scum, which is why both of us swapped the vote there in a relatively short amount of time

[Datisi]

In what world is my first interaction with my scum partner the one I quoted there?


Like, I fucking had him in one post. I said to you yesterday that my reads hae circled back to day one and day one it was gimli and datisi for a long time.

i'm reskimming d1 and looking back this isn't like, a good point

386 is a throwaway post and i struggle to see bella thinking that level of interaction is actually clearing? scum distance all the time. she wasn't even voting there.

also like a page or so later, ali and i have a fight that's much more... idk present than that post. i'm not saying i'm clear for that or anything but i feel like this would at least have to get mentioned by bella.

and god page 25 is annoying because ali and bella are both shitting on me and the unexplained klick meta scumread and the fact that i was getting scumread for "scumposting" at alisae

i am also increasingly wondering if this is helpful to anyone

[Datisi]

ok i got to page 43 before i realized my brain isn't reading jack shit anymore

however, i do think eod1 much more clearly points to bella than to mena

bella votes staeg in 1644. her reasons aren't great. like

Spoiler: some bella posts that mention him

VOTE: steag

Are we worried about trying to elim a high pick? Like, it feels wrong but I also can't see many better tekkers rn?

Yeah, he's been bottom of klicks read list (who, like me tries to find town) and dv says they can see basically all of his posting coming from scum motivation

Oh, beetlejuice, confirmed mod!scum

Also, noone in the thread seems to be tr ING steag but no-one is voting them

...

the main thought about the top of the draft for a while has been "we don't vote top of draft today" why are you saying this as if it's some sorta gotcha for why staeg is scum?

? I'm not? It links to everything else we were saying about the slot being kinda ghosty....I hadn't seen many people with compelling reasons to tr them but also not enough to vote.

Cools. Part of it is I really have no reason to tr them: Ans neither does aby of my team. There are slots that produce discussion, but nothing about steag: I tend to find slots I think nothing about end up being scum more often than not.

Then, the massive uptick in his posting when under any pressure looks really coached..plus, a lot of their pressure is in a few places, rather than engagement as a whole. Their scum reads don't make sense and they seem self conscious about this too.

Plus, there's literally zero appetite in my team for imag: I think relying on the numbers is poor and like, the claim when it came is slightly more likely to be town than scum? I think if I was scum with imag I'd be hard bussing and very much pushing no claim.

Datisi just has more posts/content so I can see more of it as town, I can see all of menas last page as Wolfy really easily.

Also, on the steag thing, it's also interaction. I know I'm guilty of this back but I feel I've 'interacted' with every other slot in the game, whereas the most content we got fro. Steag was the series of coached looking posts after there was pressure.

There's a bunch of people that just don't appear in steags iso barely at all, and even when some of the rest do it's all in relation to lld! It's...weird af.

tbh i still kinda don't get what 1651 is supposed to mean. but none of these reasons are good. i called out the staeg pushes at the time

also keep in mind that jjh, 3rd in draft, flipped goon so scum knew that there was a cop/bp in staeg/ythan.

which is also why id would make sense for there to be pressure from scum to push one of them through on d1. like sure ok the UB would get the role. but scum would then 100% know where the cop is and would have the ability to shoot them freely

also look at this VC

Vote Count 1.17

Staeg (6): Alisae, Bellaphant, imaginality, Marashu, Rad, Gimli
imaginality (3): Staeg, Datisi, Menalque
Rad (2): Cephrir, mith
Lady Lambdadelta (1): Ythan

Not Voting (1): Lady Lambdadelta

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.

Deadline is April 27 at 10:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2023-04-28 01:00:00).

gimli jumped on the wagon with like. the worst reasoning (i didn't check lmao i just remember feeling like it was bad) and look at mena's position. he could hammer that. i'm sure scum-mena could come up with something if his goal throughout day 1 was to like, figure out who the cop is

@dats, staeg pls join me on this

VOTE: rad

he doesn't

also, about bella being like, wanting gimli at eod1 or whatever. she unvotes at 2200. she doesn't revote that day. like, she can claim she wanted gimli above others but like, her vote is very clearly not doing anything, she could've at least voted there???

---

this is not that strong but i just remembered this and it maybe actually makes sense

So the chat in our team has been: why was steag elim not pushed through, but was the nk? Steag should've been assumed to be a strong town pr, but the elim just couldn't get through, especially after me/alissy (maybe rad, haven't checked) unvoted.
Hypothesis :the last scum was just not around.

Second supporting idea: why would scum then shoot steag? They must have suspected he had strong town pr. But why wouldn't they be worried about bullet proof?
Hypothesis: because scum already has the bullet proof

Conclusion : ythan is scum, possibly bullet proof.

Thoughts, comments, questions?

look at this post

with the knowledge that scum knew who cop is

and with the idea that bella is scum, who wants to push ythan, and who very clearly knew there was scum on that staeg wagon but that is magically not her conclusion

---

ok i think i'll go sleep now, maybe more content tomorrow? probably
anyway ama ig
(i like having feedback to things i post even if said feedback is "datisi that's the stupidest shit i've ever read")

[Bellaphant]

@mith, have you got any questions for me?

[mith]

I will at some point. I am a bundle of RL stress at the moment and haven't felt up to doing much re-reading yet.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We have like 9 days. There is no rush.