BooneyToonz XVI: Boons Ahoy! - [END]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Idk Ranger.
If you wanna argue Whemestar was seen as townie then it’s sorta ironic that you mentioned they were wagoned yesterday.
Like why would scum wanna kill a slot that’s been wagoned and only really lightheartedly fell apart as an wagon, as opposed to someone that has not been wagoned at all and likely never will.
I feel like you arguing this is kinda farfetched and only to make me seem less credible and trustworthy.

[Ranger]

Frogs is just town, that's non-negotiable

And you wonder why I'm not negotiating with you.

I trust my scumread more than I trust your mysterious townread.

[Klick]

Norwee kill makes a lot of sense

It doesn't.

Norwee wasn't widely townread by the vibes yesterday.
WhemeStar was.

WhemeStar being confirmed to target Norwee is confirmation WhemeStar was directly killed, and confirmation Theta Alpine was vigged by Kitty Trauma Team.

Completely backwards take

[NorwegianboyEE]

And you know.

Theta wagon fell apart too yesterday.

Would you argue that meant we were all townreading them? Even if i joined another wagon because there was lack of support that doesn’t mean i trusted the slot.

[Klick]

Frogs is just town, that's non-negotiable

And you wonder why I'm not negotiating with you.

I trust my scumread more than I trust your mysterious townread.

Ali is town because e cares about this game at basically the right level of motivation for being vaguely-disinterested town. It's basically the same level I'm at.

All Ali is really doing right now is attempting to solve the game with the little attention e is devoting to it. When Ali makes a post, it's to make an observation e has noticed, and there's no discernable agenda outside of that. E is a fairly open book with eir thought process in the right mindset.

I'm making this post and it's not going to seriously impact anyone's read on the Frogs slot and yet it is reasoning that makes me 99% confident the slot is town.

"""""" Mysterious """"""

[Ranger]

If you wanna argue Whemestar was seen as townie then it’s sorta ironic that you mentioned they were wagoned yesterday.

The ideas of a player having been wagoned,
And that player being widely townread,
Aren't mutually exclusive.

WhemeStar was wagoned.
WhemeStar was, later, widely townread.
These are both facts.

When players gave their reasons for suspecting WhemeStar, and those reasons were engaged, they realized their suspicion was unfounded and, largely, began to townread WhemeStar.

I feel like you arguing this is kinda farfetched and only to make me seem less credible and trustworthy.

What a coincidence.

I feel arguing scum killed a player almost nobody was townreading is a way to falsely clear a scum slot.

[Ranger]

Norwee kill makes a lot of sense

It doesn't.

Norwee wasn't widely townread by the vibes yesterday.
WhemeStar was.

WhemeStar being confirmed to target Norwee is confirmation WhemeStar was directly killed, and confirmation Theta Alpine was vigged by Kitty Trauma Team.

Completely backwards take

It's not backwards. It's what happened.

Norwee wasn't widely townread yesterday. That's a fact.
Whemestar was widely townread at the end of yesterday. That's a fact.

The WhemeStar wagon resulted in WhemeStar becoming townread. Scum were likely to shoot him.

WhemeStar being confirmed to target a player scum would never kill is confirmation WhemeStar was directly killed.

There's also another factor.
The ideas of Norwee being the scum kill,
And Ranger being scum,
Are mutually exclusive.

I never kill Norwee here. I'd have no reason to.

Any scumteam killing Norwee would by requirement have reason to kill Norwee.
It's my belief no scumteam had reason to kill Norwee.

Even if I'm wrong, even if they did, that I would never have reason to kill Norwee means I cannot have killed Norwee.

[Enchant]

Ranger issue is.

You are not Mafia.
You cannot judge what mafia do as if it was YOU mafia. Any argument "well i would't kill PERSON so mafia would't either" is silly at best.

[Ranger]

And you know. Theta wagon fell apart too yesterday.
Would you argue that meant we were all townreading them?

Yes, actually.

Theta Alpine was nearly universally townread at the end of D1.

[Ranger]

"""""" Mysterious """"""

You've implied it's more, based on Frogs' role.

I buy neither your stated reason or a mysterious role as indicative of Alisae being town.

[Ranger]

You are not Mafia.

True.

What mafia team

does

kill Norwee though?

I wouldn't.
I doubt Here There Be Dragons does.
Kitty Trauma Team certainly wouldn't.

{TemporalLich, Klick, Peregrine, Emperor FlippyNips} are all slots I don't know either way if they would or wouldn't.

The pool of those who would is,
{Doctor Drew, Frogs, Enchant, Firebringer}.

From your perspective, you know you didn't.

From your perspective, if you believe mafia did kill Norwee, then you must therefore believe the scumteam contains players who

would

kill Norwee.

And therefore, IF Norwee

were

killed last night, there

must

be scum in {Doctor Drew, Frogs, Firebringer}.
Since Firebringer is claiming to have used a non-killing action, it couldn't have been him. The idea of Firebringer being scum is mutually exclusive with a Norwee kill because Firebringer wouldn't use a personal ability on the scum kill.

So it follows IF Norwee

were

killed last night, there must be scum in {Doctor Drew, Frogs}.

I don't think Norwee was killed last night. I believe it was WhemeStar. WhemeStar being directly killed opens up the killer to be nearly anyone. If it WAS Norwee, then it must've been someone who thought Norwee was a good kill target. The number of players who thought Norwee was a good kill can be counted on a single hand.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can see this particular topic is a waste of time to engage with you on.

[Ranger]

I can see this particular topic is a waste of time to engage with you on.

Well when you're arguing something I know isn't true, I'm certainly not going to change my stance.

[Firebringer]

Norwee wasn't widely townread yesterday. That's a fact.
Whemestar was widely townread at the end of yesterday. That's a fact.

You are such full of shit that i almost want to go back and trace down everyones reads because this just sounds like a total bullshit story your trying to sell.

Whemestar was not widely townread. He was null to more than half the playerlist
I know i was extremely hard townreading norwee. I know there were at least 2-3 others.

So you trying to go on and on about who was more widely townread sounds like such repainting of events.

[Firebringer]

ranger continously talking about game vibes and then telling me a story of what happened in this game just makes me think she played a different game then me

[Ranger]

We shall kill Norwee tonight. That norwegian knew what he did for calling me town and must pay with his life.

This indicates Firebringer did target Norwee last night.

Since WhemeStar might've been scumreading Firebringer (hard to tell for sure), it would also track WhemeStar targeted Norwee.

kuribo had Norwee at null, and WhemeStar as a scumread, yet with an asterisk;

Might be willing to move Whemestar up a notch. Not because of anything the slot's done, mostly for funsies.

(This contributes to WhemeStar being perceived positively.)

{Peregrine, Here There Be Dragons,

WhemeStar

, Klick}
(cut)
{TemporalLich, NorwegianboyEE}

I had Norwee at null, and WhemeStar as a townread.

NorwegianboyEE

WhemeStar

Klick had Norwee as town, and WhemeStar as a scumread.

i'm townreading everyone who's voting students with me right now

Vote Count 1.08

Students of Prudence [4]:

Firebringer, Whemestar, Ranger, Here There Be Dragons

Here There Be Dragons didn't state a Norwee read (null?), and had WhemeStar as a townread. (Townreading those on the wagon, WhemeStar was on the wagon, ergo, townread WhemeStar.)

[Town]

NorwegianboyEE - thoughtstreaming a town mindset, confident in townreading
(gap)
WhemeStar - scummy, but maybe town.
[below this line indicates good lims]

TemporalLich had Norwee as town, and had WhemeStar as a townread.

2 of those people that I think are town are voting me are norwee and flippy

Frogs had Norwee as town, and had WhemeStar as a nullread.

VOTE: Frogs
Wheme feels better now.

(I've not been collecting dead players' stances in this readback, likely should. Still,) Students had WhemeStar as 'feels better now'.

I lean town here I think! I don't feel she is extremely towny, but I liked the perspective on the WhemeStar read! While reading it, I was able to agree with the points that she made without feeling as if I had to struggle to understand, and has also had the consequence of improving my read on Wheme!

Peregrine had Norwee as a townread earlier (nothing later), and Whemestar as a townread.

the me and frogs thing made 0 sense and just affirmed my thoughts that Tl was scum hows that omgus when he was one of my top scumreads at the time

Ugh, reading through that again(the posts that Ranger linked), and not trying to be tunnely, I guess I can see this

Doctor Drew didn't take much of a Norwee stance and had WhemeStar as a townread (eventually).

Very town never limming day one: Enchant, Norwee, Lich,
Probably Town. Most Likely won't vote today unless i have to like compromise or some shit - Doctor Drew, Whemestar

Firebringer had Norwee as town and had WhemeStar as a townread.

Why is norwee good to you?
They haven’t responded to me yet and that is in fact, scummy

Emperor flippyNips had Norwee as scum, and had no stance on WhemeStar.

Enchant took no stance on either as far as I could tell.

WhemeStar town: 8
WhemeStar null/unspecified: 2
WhemeStar scum: 2

Norwee town: 5
Norwee null/unspecified:4
Norwee Scum: 1

That's the total from the vibes.
It supports WhemeStar being

very

widely townread,
And Norwee being mostly null. There's more Norwee townreads than I remember I admit, with it closer to 50/50 townread/scumread. It's still factual WhemeStar was more town than Norwee.

[Ranger]

Norwee wasn't widely townread yesterday. That's a fact.
Whemestar was widely townread at the end of yesterday. That's a fact.

You are such full of shit that i almost want to go back and trace down everyones reads because this just sounds like a total bullshit story your trying to sell.

What a coincidence, I actually

did

go back and trace down everyone's reads on WhemeStar and Norwee.

I was wrong in my assumption Norwee wasn't being townread basically at all; there was more support for Norwee being town than I remember. I'll concede Norwee

had

townreads. Still, it was far closer to 50/50.

I maintain WhemeStar is the far more likely kill, because WhemeStar was being near-universally townread. There were

eight

players (at least) who had positive feelings about WhemeStar. And the number of scumreads equaled the number of nullreads (2 each). With one of said scumreads also improving with time.

I didn't invent WhemeStar being town.

You all have bad memory of what happened and didn't believe me when I said I had good memory of the vibes.
Turns out I did in fact have good memory of the vibes.

[TemporalLich]

a very low confidence scumread on WhemeStar is apparently a townread now...

note that my late Day 1 lead rist had WhemeStar as a scumread but just barely out of the PoE, note that Kitty Trauma Team was a nullread on that lead rist

[Ranger]

ranger continously talking about game vibes and then telling me a story of what happened in this game just makes me think she played a different game then me

Well the game I played is the game which actually happened, so I don't know what game you played; it certainly wasn't this one.

The vibes had WhemeStar as town. At least eight positive, only two negative (with one also being more favorable), and the others neutral.

The vibes had Norwee as 50% neutral. I was wrong in thinking Norwee was mostly neutral, as there was more support of Norwee being town than I remembered.

I'll concede it's

possible

if Norwee's town, Norwee was killed. It would require the killers to be largely among those calling Norwee town, and the list of those who had Norwee as town is {Klick, TemporalLich, Frogs, Peregrine*}. (Firebringer also townread Norwee but targeted Norwee with his PR, disqualifying him from being scum killing Norwee.)

Conclusion;
EITHER:
WhemeStar was directly killed,
OR:
{Klick, TemporalLich, Frogs, Peregrine} contains scum who killed Norwee.

[TemporalLich]

this is as opposed to Norwee being

top read

on the late Day 1 lead rist

WhemeStar was out of the PoE because I was thinking WhemeStar could be town despite my scumread, and I already had a PoE of 5 players anyway

[Ranger]

a very low confidence scumread on WhemeStar is apparently a townread now...

For the sake of vibes and considering you started with a stronger scumread?

Yes.

A player starting with a stronger scumread on WhemeStar, who then later has their WhemeStar scumread weaken, counts as vibes for WhemeStar being town. It indicates momentum was swinging towards WhemeStar being town.

[TemporalLich]

I mean yeah but in no way should my reads on WhemeStar and Norwee be considered equivalent - a scumread with a rising trend and leaving the PoE is not equivalent to a top read

[Ranger]

WhemeStar was out of the PoE because I was thinking WhemeStar could be town despite my scumread, and I already had a PoE of 5 players anyway

Which counts as a townread for the purposes of vibes.

I've been quite consistent in stating WhemeStar was vibed as town.

Perhaps there's confusion on what I meant by vibes in the first place?

Vibes mean overall momentum. There was overwhelming momentum behind WhemeStar being town. It was an idea gaining force. The reads on WhemeStar continued moving further north. The players who initially scumread WhemeStar had largely ceased doing so, yourself included. "could be town despite my scumread" is a much more favorable stance on WhemeStar than "is my top scumread". You went from the latter to the former, demonstrating WhemeStar was looking more town. This was true of multiple players.

There wasn't overwhelming momentum behind Norwee being town. There were players townreading Norwee, about equal to the players with no read on Norwee. These reads didn't overwhelmingly improve. Norwee didn't have reads moving further north, at least not overwhelmingly.

There's evidence supporting Norwee was certainly a

possible

kill. If so, this is damning for those with Norwee as town on D1.
There's much stronger evidence WhemeStar was a

likely

kill.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Again i’m not following.
Why would a kill ln me mean that scum absolutely must and can only be in the slots that townread me?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also why couldn’t scum have been PR hunting and thought i was a good shot, or tried to kill me because i was on to Theta, or thought my death would be low-info, or fucking anything else?

Sigh…