TM 2023 | Masterchef MafiaScum (Game over)

[Korina]

VOTE: Dessew

Can’t be nk’d if your dead

[Korina]

Do you wanna help me end RVS then?

[Korina]

So I think the important mech thing is that we should just avoid talking about recipes in general. Like, at no point ever should

anyone

claim their recipe, or what ingredients they have. Simply because there's no NK for scum. The only kills happen if you have all your ingredients at the end of the night, or elim during the day, and kills are replaced by redistribution where the ingredients are able to be moved to/from players, so all we'd do by posting what we have and what our recipe is, is just telling the scum

how

to kill you.

I looked up my recipe and the ingredients needed to kill me are present in the game, which makes me think that Lilith just went through a bunch of foods and went "How do you make these" and took the ingredients in the list, and that's how to kill me. I think that's going to be true for everyone too - I don't think we're going to have someone have a recipe and need an ingredient that makes

zero

sense to make that food IRL as a part of the kill.

Additionally, not-mech related, but I think you're town thus far, but that's simply for wanting to end RVS.

[Korina]

I just mostly want to get the game out of RVS because it's boring sitting here not doing anything LOL.

[Korina]

What do you think about Ari's entry?

[Korina]

Team hasn’t really discussed it. Ceph just said the setup looks complicated and hasn’t had time to look at it, StD is V/LA, and Kowah is around somewhat, but hasn’t really posted anything on mech. I moreso posted the mech stuff, and my team went “yeah that looks about right”

[Korina]

I also spent literally the second the game got posted and the mech was announced I started speculating on this because there was nothing better to do, and I didn’t have anything else to do at work

[Korina]

Dessew’s team name is “ghosts of nks past” and the “can’t be nk’d if you’re dead” is a play off that?

[Korina]

I’m asking my team for reads. You should be too.

[Korina]

@mod v/la 24

[Korina]

@Ari

Ceph told me to ask you if you wanna play battleship.

I also want to look at the people who voted Dessew because I don’t like how quickly Dessew got wagoned.

[Korina]

Also why does Norwee have two votes

[Korina]

VOTE: Furtive

Teammates are saying Furtive is not playing to his town game as well

[Korina]

VOTE: Furtive

Teammates are saying Furtive is not playing to his town game as well

Which ones

Ceph mostly

[Korina]

@Ari

Ceph told me to ask you if you wanna play battleship.

I also want to look at the people who voted Dessew because I don’t like how quickly Dessew got wagoned.

I'm not very good at board game unfortunately.

It's pretty easy to look at who voted for Dessew

1 - Korina[that's you!]
2- Ari[that's me!]
3- Norwe[He wanted to see what would happen?]
4 - Furtive[he was there for three minutes]

More curious why y’all joined the rvs wagon and brought it to e-1

[Korina]

Norwee what are you seeing in McMenno?

[Korina]

VOTE: Furtive

Not because of the above post, but teammates agreeing my read on Furtive, plus Furtive's vote on Dessew feels weird. I highly doubt out of four votes on Dessew's wagon, all four of them were town. I do not think Dessew ever reaches E-1 naturally without scum interference. If Ari flips town, and Furtive flips town, I think it's highly probable then that Dessew is scum, but I think a scumflip in {Ari, Furtive} makes Dessew town more often than not.

Ari, I could be convinced to some degree is scum, but I feel like the reasoning I'd get to for scum!ari to sheep my vote on Dessew isn't... there? I don't see reason for Scum!Ari to sheep my vote unless the entire team is saying that she should try to pocket me and this is some strange pocket attempt? Though, admittedly, I am curious why Ari did vote Dessew as well, but I think it's more than likely just town voting with another townie.

Norwee is just town, and Ceph + StD have both agreed that Norwee is just town.

I know I'm not scum.

Which, leaves Furtive. I can go through and try to case Furtive more tightly than just this later.

[Korina]

Norwee what are you seeing in McMenno?

@Norwee

Above please <3

Teammates are saying similar things so I’m curious what you’re seeing too.

[Korina]

What makes you want to vote McMenno?

[Korina]

I thought you were. What makes you think they’re sus then?

[Korina]

VOTE: Korina

also don't really like Korina asking Norwee about McMenno without really stating Korina's own position - feels like scum keeping their options open

I literally do not have an opinion on McMenno. None of McMenno's posts strike me as anything meaningful. That's why I'm asking, because clearly I'm missing something if Norwee + my own team feels like there's something and I don't.

[Korina]

I think Norwee is town, and I know I can trust my own team's opinion on the game, which is why I'm asking about that because once again -

I literally have no opinion on McMenno

[Korina]

like this is the entire sequence with Furtive's vote. Does it really make sense for Furtive!scum to see Dessew!town at e-2 and think hmm let me put my vote here at e-1 him and hope nobody notices and then when I get called out on it instantly unvote?

like that's what Korina is saying is "unnatural" which feels kind of a stretch to me. If anything I'd think that kind of behavior is more likely from furtive!town who is just unaware of game state than furtive!scum trying to be sneaky because like um who is going to expect being sneaky to work?

also kind of wild kawaiikwame still only has one post which is not really adding anything.

Furtive strikes me as the type of player who is generally unaware of the game in general, regardless of alignment. I don't think Furtive's unvote is meaningful, but I think the initial vote is more meaningful than anything else.

[Korina]

I find Korina's whole thought process here very unnatural because it feels like they're playing from a place of "dessew wagon scummy" when like we don't know what Dessew alignment is?

I think you're mildly scummy, and I don't know what Furtive is, which yeah would make me think the wagon on Dessew is scummy because I don't think four townies decided to vote Dessew. Especially with your vote onto Dessew, it just has not sat well with me, so yeah, the Dessew wagon is scummy. I firmly am standing by there is at least one scum on it. I highly doubt the solve is simply just {You, Furtive} but I've been surprised before.

[Korina]

So anyway I read stuff a little more coherently, and I don't like Dessew's entrance so Aristeia gets town points for feeling the same. I don't like Norwe's response to it either though, it's doing the same stating the obvious thing except playing up being ignorant.

Don't like Korina and the trying to make something out of the Dessew wagon, and pushing furtiveglance for it.

Norwe and Korina's posting about the NK stuff would be a bit weird if paired, though biancospino may disagree.

Townleaning Ari and furtiveglance; scumlean on Dessew, Korina, Norwe. We might need to pressure Kawaii at some point but I think we've got some stuff to work with for now.

Ceph and Kowah brought up a point regarding this:

Furtive might've not known it was E-1, but Furtive absolutely would've known there was a wagon at that point. Like, that's the main thing from me. You can clearly see a wagon even without a VC, so why vote and put it to E-1 even if it was unintentional? Why not count the votes and realize it'd be E-1? Just weird.

[Korina]

I am interested in killing {Ari, Furtive} today and really nobody else. I'm not really sure if there's anything scummy about Menno, because I'm not really reading Menno's posting as anything major, and I still think one of the two is flipping scum today. I could be persuaded into a Bianco vote, but that's more so from sheeping Norwee and would require me to actually look at what Bianco said to really figure out if it's fine with me.

Probably not tonight because I took an edible and am gonna be busy with work, but most likely tomorrow.

pedit: Yes, and I've modded a game with him in it.

[Korina]

At least, I'm pretty sure I did. I might be thinking of someone else.

[Korina]

He literally was disengaged the whole game because he lost an ELO situation recently, but that game also wasn't very good because it had a ban evading user in it. But I would say in general, yes he was generally aware of the game state and was aware of things going on. He was town that game too.

[Korina]

like i'm not sure where you get the confidence for your stances are you taking this game seriously or do you just not give a shit?

Because I think you're an incredibly scummy slot, and I think Furtive is an incredibly scummy slot, and nobody else in this game is as scummy as the two of you. My goal is to kill scum. Not kill someone who

could

be scum.

I find Korina's whole thought process here very unnatural because it feels like they're playing from a place of "dessew wagon scummy" when like we don't know what Dessew alignment is?

It's also because of this post which clearly demonstrates that you don't think you can have an opinion on the quality of a wagon without knowing the alignment of the person being wagoned.

[Korina]

its hard for me to take your beliefs in the game state seriously that you're ready to end d1 when

dessew has posted 5 times, once with content
kawaii has posted 1 time and

the rest of the game are busy pointing fingers at each other.

but like you seem to not care and just content to sit in your tunnel

which is very ???? to me if you're town and I guess it makes sense if you think you can get away with it as scum

Kawaii literally does this the entire time. I say this because I saw Kawaii replace me in a game, and did it. And Kawaii more or less did it in a game I modded. Kawaii's slot needs to die at some point unless it gets replaced with someone who contents, but guess what? That's not D1.

Dessew I think had a scum on it, and I don't get the point of scum bussing that early into d1, which makes me think Dessew is just town, because I highly doubt {Me, You, Norwee, Furtive} is just four townies.

Pedit: Yea, Turf Wars.

[Korina]

like i'm not sure where you get the confidence for your stances are you taking this game seriously or do you just not give a shit?

Because I think you're an incredibly scummy slot, and I think Furtive is an incredibly scummy slot, and nobody else in this game is as scummy as the two of you. My goal is to kill scum. Not kill someone who

could

be scum.

I find Korina's whole thought process here very unnatural because it feels like they're playing from a place of "dessew wagon scummy" when like we don't know what Dessew alignment is?

It's also because of this post which clearly demonstrates that you don't think you can have an opinion on the quality of a wagon without knowing the alignment of the person being wagoned.

Why is Furtive an incredibly scummy slot again?

Furtive isn't doing anything I'd expect from him as town, especially since I have played with him before, plus teammates agreeing Furtive isn't playing to town meta. Outside of "Furtive's not playing how I expect", Furtive's vote on Dessew is weird for me, even if the unvote happened shortly afterwards because once again - anyone would have to be aware there's a wagon going around somewhere at that point. Nor is he really giving any reasoning for reads. He's just kinda saying reads and citing teammates reads and nothing else. I'm ignoring all the shitposts as well, because I think they're NAI, but the actual content posts leave a lot to be desired, and they're not really

providing

anything for the game.

[Korina]

Dessew I think had a scum on it, and I don't get the point of scum bussing that early into d1, which makes me think Dessew is just town, because I highly doubt {Me, You, Norwee, Furtive} is just four townies.

why

Because why the fuck is Scum!Dessew's partner bussing this early into the game

[Korina]

like have you never seen a micro get to e-1 with 4 town votes ?

I've seen it happen, but I don't think it's something that happens frequently enough to be the basis of an argument in RVS/early game. At that point, you are arguing for a statistical wonder because the votes for something like that are more or less random in my eyes.

[Korina]

like i'm not sure where you get the confidence for your stances are you taking this game seriously or do you just not give a shit?

Because I think you're an incredibly scummy slot, and I think Furtive is an incredibly scummy slot, and nobody else in this game is as scummy as the two of you. My goal is to kill scum. Not kill someone who

could

be scum.

I find Korina's whole thought process here very unnatural because it feels like they're playing from a place of "dessew wagon scummy" when like we don't know what Dessew alignment is?

It's also because of this post which clearly demonstrates that you don't think you can have an opinion on the quality of a wagon without knowing the alignment of the person being wagoned.

why am i incredibly scummy

Nothing you are posting sits right with me. I think your response to me asking about the wagon in 108 is weird, and comes off as very cheeky to me, and I don't get the town motivation for cheekily replying to something like that nor really explaining why you joined onto it after I asked explicitly why. 161 is also weird, and very directly states that you don't think you can have an opinion on the quality of a wagon without knowing the alignment of someone, like I said above. Defense of Furtive also is ok, ig? I just didn't like it very much, but that comes from a position of I don't like Furtive's slot in general, and seeing someone defend it makes me think they're also scum. The way how you're positioning yourself in relation to me doesn't sit right with me in general, and I think you're scum for it.

[Korina]

I'm going off what you did in Turf Wars, where you were very aware of the game state and were actively doing things, and providing some content. You're not doing the same here.

[Korina]

I don't think Kawaii is a good kill on d1, but any day outside d1, I agree.

[Korina]

My edible kicked in, so I'm going to try to phrase this as gently as possible because high!me tends to not hold back punches.

I said multiple times that I don't think both of you are scum. I think you both equally are scummy, but I do not think both of you are scum, unless both of you agreed to just throw Team Mafia on some stupidly risky play that could throw the game for your team.

VOTE: Ari

The longer you talk though the more I think it's you and not Furtive, so here. Take the vote.

[Korina]

I am interested in killing {Ari, Furtive} today and really nobody else. I'm not really sure if there's anything scummy about Menno, because I'm not really reading Menno's posting as anything major, and I still think one of the two is flipping scum today. I could be persuaded into a Bianco vote, but that's more so from sheeping Norwee and would require me to actually look at what Bianco said to really figure out if it's fine with me.

Probably not tonight because I took an edible and am gonna be busy with work, but most likely tomorrow.

pedit: Yes, and I've modded a game with him in it.

I find Korina's whole thought process here very unnatural because it feels like they're playing from a place of "dessew wagon scummy" when like we don't know what Dessew alignment is?

I think you're mildly scummy, and I don't know what Furtive is, which yeah would make me think the wagon on Dessew is scummy because I don't think four townies decided to vote Dessew. Especially with your vote onto Dessew, it just has not sat well with me, so yeah, the Dessew wagon is scummy. I firmly am standing by there is at least one scum on it. I highly doubt the solve is simply just {You, Furtive} but I've been surprised before.

VOTE: Furtive

Not because of the above post, but teammates agreeing my read on Furtive, plus Furtive's vote on Dessew feels weird. I highly doubt out of four votes on Dessew's wagon, all four of them were town. I do not think Dessew ever reaches E-1 naturally without scum interference. If Ari flips town, and Furtive flips town, I think it's highly probable then that Dessew is scum, but I think a scumflip in {Ari, Furtive} makes Dessew town more often than not.

Ari, I could be convinced to some degree is scum, but I feel like the reasoning I'd get to for scum!ari to sheep my vote on Dessew isn't... there? I don't see reason for Scum!Ari to sheep my vote unless the entire team is saying that she should try to pocket me and this is some strange pocket attempt? Though, admittedly, I am curious why Ari did vote Dessew as well, but I think it's more than likely just town voting with another townie.

Norwee is just town, and Ceph + StD have both agreed that Norwee is just town.

I know I'm not scum.

Which, leaves Furtive. I can go through and try to case Furtive more tightly than just this later.

At what point in these was it unclear that I don't think the solve is you two together because I'd like to y'know, make it more clear that I don't think the solve is the two of you. I think if one of you flips town it clears the other.

[Korina]

Bruh I'm not gonna high post LOL. I'm only on here for this last post and then I'm off

[Korina]

You are purposefully being obtuse. I am done with you.

[Korina]

weed

[Korina]

Drew are you scum this game - do I have to sort you?

[Korina]

UNVOTE:

I don’t know who I’m voting for but I’m reconsidering my stance on the Ari/MT slot

[Korina]

On gut instinct alone I don’t think scum!mt posts a wall like that, but that’s coming from literally seeing MT play in the game I modded, where MT was a mentor. Radically different roles than what we’d see in TM, but I think that’d be consistent between cult and normal groupscum

[Korina]

Not to mention teammates thinking MT/Ari is town and I’m slowly losing my conviction on it when rest of team are saying town

[Korina]

Korina does your scumread on my slot come from any place other than that there had to have been scum exploiting the RVS wagon on (i forget who) and Ari/furtive were the two latter voters

You've had a particularly locked-on tone when it comes to just those two slots being scum but the only big thing i remember would be that there must be scum on wagon

The wagon was on Dessew, and Ari was very coy on why she joined the vote, but also there was a lot of tonal things I didn’t like from your slot, and general engagement with me I didn’t like, but the bulk came from the positioning on the wagon.

[Korina]

Ari was also positioning very weirdly in relation to me, and I also didn’t like that. I’m still thinking your slot is scum, but I’m also acknowledging that my teammates are probably right over me, simply because all of them agree on your slot being town.

[Korina]

For the most part, but most of it has been “hey can you look at the game, specifically at X” without actually keeping totally up to the game.

Even if it’s not like 100% agreement there’s a lot of “I could see that, yeah” type of thing

[Korina]

Latter.

[Korina]

Kowah has been around a lot less, but Ceph and STD have popped in a couple of times to provide reads. This game has been so slow nobody really feels the need to help in it, and I've expressed I feel more or less on top of the game without needing help, but the help is appreciated.

[Korina]

I forgot who you replaced but I think you're scum already LOL

[Korina]

Each player starts with a dish name (their flavor name), a simplified recipe for that dish, and some ingredients (which may or may not overlap with the recipe, but will never be the entire recipe). Nightkills are replaced by "redistribution," which moves around ingredients to/from players. Players are removed from the game if, at the end of a Night phase, they have completed their recipe and can make their dish using the ingredients in their possession. The ingredients that fulfilled their recipe are removed from the game, while any extra ingredients in their possession are put into the Shelf. Players can also be removed from the game by normal elimination process during Day phases. Ingredients of eliminated players will end up in the Shelf.

[Korina]

VOTE: Dessew

E-1

Don’t have time currently but can explain later

[Korina]

I will be back tomorrow, busy at work.

[Korina]

I have some thoughts that I can post rq:

Dessew has not done a lot throughout the game and the most notable impact Dessew has had on the game up to this point is claiming TPR, which seems to have been a thing since the start of the game, meaning Dessew is likely just a PR regardless. Not to mention there are a lot of posts pre-claim that are just

weird

.

203 says Dessew is behind on reading. The game is literally nine pages thus far at that point.
A lot of Dessew's reads pre-claim are LHF. Ok with killing Menno/Furtive/Aureal at the point most people were ok with it. Instead of going "my teammate has a scumread on Aureal" - posting a whole nothingburger of a over it

I literally am management in food service as well and I've been busy with:
1) Helping train the new class of managers
2) Getting ready for two health inspection from two different groups, (one state inspection and one from ecosure)
3) Learning my job, which means I'm pulling longer hours. I'm sorry I don't have time to sit down and fully commit to posting atm.

[Korina]

I don't think Dessew's claim absolves Dessew of all suspicion fwiw, since I could see that being a claim mafia literally have, or a fakeclaim that makes sense in regards to how players are killed outside of the vote.

[Korina]

Yes I also was given an ingredient at the start of d1, Lilith announced this. Were you not paying attention to that?

Also I didn’t lose any ingredients last night.

[Korina]

Wait a minute! Our judge Borden Tansy has paused the countdown. There's

another twist!

"We've just received a surprise delivery of ingredients, and we can't let this food go to waste. Please check your Mystery Boxes again to see if you've ended up with one of these extra ingredients."

"Okay, the clock is starting in three.. two.. one.. Go!"

[Korina]

VOTE: aureal

i cc second tpr

[Korina]

Four prs in 9 players seems excessive

[Korina]

Dessew claimed effectively doctor, Bianco is extremely strong considering how mafia nk works, so no, I don’t think it’s a lot of weak prs

[Korina]

Four

[Korina]

My recipe uses three ingredients.

And yeah, I would think that duplicates would be indicated but no harm being clear. If you've got duplicates I'll assume the shelf works the same, which means the Flour that Korina lost is unaccounted for. Did anyone get some?

I didn't lose any ingredients

[Korina]

Tbh the sooner you die the sooner the game ends and I'm happy with that.

[Korina]

hi, i'm stoned, so i'm trying to keep posts brief, but i feel like dessew's claim changed. i went back and couldn't find what i thought i saw originally, but idk if that's me misremembering.

also i dislike drew claiming what the mafia nk is as an action.

[Korina]

you literally claimed the mafia nk mechanics.

[Korina]

Nightkills are replaced by "redistribution," which moves around ingredients to/from players.

???????

[Korina]

Is that wording somehow unclear in what is considered nightkills or did you also not read the setup?

[Korina]

VOTE: Drew

[Korina]

I mean, since like three others have claimed pr, I don't know if Aureal is scum or not. Because I'm operating off the assumption 7v2, two town prs and one scum pr, but that's clearly not the case, or drew and aureal are lying for some reason

[Korina]

I know I didn't lose ingredients but I could see town motivation for claiming a fake guilty on something like that

[Korina]

I thought Dessew claimed that he takes them himself and not on the shelf. I thought the same thing too.

[Korina]

@Drew: I took a random ingredient from Aureal, therefore I have that ingredient on me. Or do you mean if I received other items during the night? There's no point in talking about that at this point.

If it comes down to Aureal and Korina, I'd prefer a Korina lim. We can disregard my previous post about her, because I was arguing that she was VT, and that's clearly not the case.

[Korina]

Dessew claimed to take from Aureal not the shelf

[Korina]

@Dessew, my pronouns are they, not she. This is like the second time I've said that. Pls get it right. It's right under my name.

[Korina]

I really don't know what to make of the game tbf because I know for a fact Aureal is lying about me losing flour. Because I didn't lose any ingredients last night to the best of my knowledge.

[Korina]

Vanilla Cop with no result n1

[Korina]

I just strongly dislike this game, and I think anything like this should be openly stated before the event starts, because I would've put this as my most undesirable game if I was informed there was significant mechanics impacting the mafia NK, or any mechanics that change the NK from "X targets a player, assuming no interference that players dies tonight." The roles in this game made it so my kill is effectively luck based, which is awful, and I would've greatly appreciated being told that was the case before playing in this game.

That's all I have to say really about this game.

[Korina]

Norwee only died by sheer luck. That's it. Based off what I was told about Norwee's role, I could've been 1 ingredient off of killing, and that would've been even worse to know post-game. I just. Once again, I wish it was openly stated there are significant mechanics impacting the NK before playing the game.

[Korina]

Yeah but like, there's no guarantee of any kills, especially with two roles that can just outright stop me from making a kill if I get unlucky in the roll of what to take. That's the problem. The fact that there is any degree of chance in any of my kills outside of an actual doctor is bad and I would've liked to be told that. A doctor is reasonably anticipatable, and I can expect to play around a doctor, but being told your NK is not guaranteed due to mechanics, and is dependent on knowing who has what ingredients.

At least with arso, if there's a firefighter, I can reasonably anticipate them stopping my kill. I can't anticipate random chance.

[Korina]

It's just like, the fact that any degree of random chance was added into the game and wasn't announced prior to the game is my issue with it. That's it.

[Korina]

it had approximately 0 impact on the game result

It’s almost like my partner died d1 for not doing anything and rng ended up playing into my favor and let me kill norwee anyways. Wild how rng works.

[Korina]

it had approximately 0 impact on the game result

It’s almost like my partner died d1 for not doing anything and rng ended up playing into my favor and let me kill norwee anyways. Wild how rng works.

Just curious why you claimed to not have lost the flour. That was the main thing we couldn't figure out.

Because I wasn't expecting for there to be effectively a doctor, vigilante, and tracker in the game?

[Korina]

Uh. Let me see if I can explain this even more simply:

I was not expecting anyone to have tracked me that night. I was not expecting there to be more than 3 powerroles in general, and with the mafia NK being "you redistribute items to other players" what does that make it look like when I suddenly lose an item? I got targeted by the mafia NK. Why would the mafia target me, a player who is arguably extremely scummy? To try to keep them alive longer. That's why.

[Korina]

Yeah that’s like the entire thing too: Bianco dying really fucked up everything. Like there was no counterplay against it, especially in a situation where bussing is strictly losing for me.

[Korina]

I also literally didn’t ask my team for help because once Bianco died, that was it. It became effectively impossible for me to win.

[Korina]

Like nothing this game went my way and by the time Bianco died I was done, but didn’t wanna rep out/forfeit, because Dessew was supposed to be the d1 mislim and we shoot Aureal that night but uh. Y’know. Bianco flipped.

[Korina]

Wait what, why would anyone want to shoot

me

?

With this game's mechanics I don't think you'd have even been able to succeed if you'd tried. Dessew actually snagged one of my necessary ingredients so I was pretty safe. So yeah, really absolutely nothing went your way.

And once again - random chance like that should’ve been announced before the signups.

[Korina]

Yea but in the case of that, it’s simply you hit them, and you can reasonably play around their targets.

This is different in the sense that even if I pick the right target, there is still a chance they’re bulletproof outside of what I can do because I lack everything to kill them, or pick something wrong to give people.

Not to mention, even if I hit the same target as Drew/Dessew, both of them are functionally doctors, just Drew is effectively a modified CPR doctor.

I just. There’s a lot that frustrates me about this game that I’ve said before and I’m stopping now. It benefits nobody.

[Korina]

Because I wasn’t having fun. Bianco dying d1 really cemented the “I’m not having fun” part but it really started the second I got a red pm

[Korina]

Well, specifically red pm with atypical NK. Red pm on its own is fine imo.