Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[tubby216]

K7 any thoughts??

[tubby216]

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

oh and this,,, springlullaby care to respond??

[Battle Mage]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

[Citizen Karne]

Caboose, if you find opportunism like that so scummy, I suggest your next vote be one for yourself, my friend.

FoS: Caboose

[Lowell]

@tubby- my post 1904 lays out my case, more or less. Several others made other cases before then.

[Caboose]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

No, that's not what I said, either. Lurking by itself isn't particularly scummy and putting someone at -2 isn't scummy by itself either. But the combination of those two, IMO, are.

Caboose, if you find opportunism like that so scummy, I suggest your next vote be one for yourself, my friend. FoS: Caboose

So you don't think that my reason for voting K7 is legit? How so?

[tubby216]

Picking up from p53

1314- long post by Lowell, explains cass case
1321- cephir votes cass
1322- tom votes cass
1327- non-defense defense by cass [-]
1349- BM votes raider
1367- EGL unvotes, FOSs cass and netlava [-, just picks top 2 vote-getters?]
1414- BM is right about raider flip-flopping for no reason [+]
1425- SC votes netlava
1450- SC unvotes, votes raider
1457- EGL votes raider
1460- cyber questions why netlava wagon keeps getting derailed [+, good point]
1461- raider loses it
1485- netlava 6, cass 4, raider 3
1504- KoC votes netlava [-, too overeager]
1514- korts votes SC for following skruffs
1556- netlava votes citizen karne
1575- Lowell votes netlava for dice roll
1576- cephir does the same
1580- SC unvotes, votes netlava
1607- BM votes netlava
1624- netlava claims swiss town
1629- surye votes netlava
1631- EGL votes netlava, hammers
1636- netlava town, 4 night kills, including 2 diff mafia factions
1648- tom declares himself still alive [-, he doth protest too much]
1667- skruffs calls SC icelanding mafia
1677- Lowell votes sensfan, the new cass
1678- SC votes Lowell for not explaining
1682- BM votes Lowell
1685- Tom thinks Lowell's vote should have been an FOS [-, coaching me????]
1700- skruffs offers scumlist (armlx, SC) [+, good post about likely scum tactics]
1717- tom takes credit for the "cass will be forgotten" idea [- -, again, following]
1724- tom votes skruffs
1736- BM votes SC
1747- armlx votes SC
1748- cyber votes SC
1758- spring votes SC
1761- tubby votes SC
1769- blakadder FOSs SC [-, "keep an eye on him"?]
1770- EGL votes SC for not denying survivor, FOSs tom and BM for buddying [+, good reason]
1777- very odd defense from tom [-]
1806- SC votes BM
1809- tom votes SC, keeps the sens-lurking idea afloat
1814- SC claims swiss town
1844- hasd votes SC for same reasons
1872- blakadder votes SC, lynch-1
1877- cream reenters, calls SC case "acceptable" [-, no hammer?]
1881- citizen karne votes SC, hammers [+, no guts no glory]
1883- blakadder "intends to vote" citizen karne [-, opportunisitc, unnecessary]

Start with

vote TOM

. In hindsight, this guy is a lot more opportunistic than I remember. 1648 is awkward. 1685 is VERY awkward, and looks like he's trying to make a friend. This is compounded in 1717, another parroting post. 1809 looks bad because he's trying to hold on to the sens-as-scum idea while actually derailing it by voting for SC. This looks like he wants plausible deniability when sens turns up scum.

I'll also

FOS blakadder

. 1769 doesn't sit well with me. To not vote for the leading wagon, but to FOS the leading wagon, and then say you want to "keep an eye on" the leading wagon is strange behavior. He's having trouble taking a stand, and I don't like it. Post 1883 is poor, too. He's preparing to vote CK without even waiting for the result of the lynch. Why, if blakadder had already FOSed the leading wagon would he all of a sudden be angry with the lynch? Especially after the claim.

Pro-town points for

Citizen Karne

and

skruffs

. CK's hammer was appropriate, though still gutsy, so he gets points for making the move while others were just hovering around. Skruffs' post in 1700 turned out to be (half) right, and tried to move things in a new direction, which earns him points as well.

i guess its as good as any,,,
i quoted it to save someone else from lookin it up and to make sure i read it right

[Battle Mage]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

No, that's not what I said, either. Lurking by itself isn't particularly scummy and putting someone at -2 isn't scummy by itself either. But the combination of those two, IMO, are.

Lol, are you really saying that 2 non-scumtells make a scumtell? 0 + 0 = 1?

BM

[Battle Mage]

1636- netlava town, 4 night kills, including 2 diff mafia factions

This caught my eye. How do you know this?

1648- tom declares himself still alive [-, he doth protest too much]

Doesnt seem like a big deal to me. I did the same thing today...

1685- Tom thinks Lowell's vote should have been an FOS [-, coaching me????]

Personal reasons rather than scumminess.

1717- tom takes credit for the "cass will be forgotten" idea [- -, again, following]

Again? Where else did he do it?

1770- EGL votes SC for not denying survivor, FOSs tom and BM for buddying [+, good reason]

Where was i FoS'd? Why do you think that is valid?

1777- very odd defense from tom [-]

What was he defending FROM exactly?

That's my critical analysis, brief though it may be. Enjoy.

BM

[raider8169]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

I dont think putting BA at L-2 is any bit scummy. That was just cabooses reason for voting K7.

[Battle Mage]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

I dont think putting BA at L-2 is any bit scummy. That was just cabooses reason for voting K7.

why are you considering 'adding your vote to the mix' then?

BM

[raider8169]

why are you considering 'adding your vote to the mix' then?

BM

Right now I am not adding my vote to the mix. I would like a real reason for lynch someone. I guess I just have not been around long enough to lynch all lurkers yet.

[Caboose]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

No, that's not what I said, either. Lurking by itself isn't particularly scummy and putting someone at -2 isn't scummy by itself either. But the combination of those two, IMO, are.

Lol, are you really saying that 2 non-scumtells make a scumtell? 0 + 0 = 1?

BM

Let's use another analogy.

By itself, carbon is not a dangerous substance. What we call pencil lead is not lead at all, but graphite, which is all sheets of carbon. In fact, the basis of organic chemistry is the element carbon.

Also by itself, oxygen is not a dangerous substance either. We actually need it to live.

But, the compound CO (carbon monoxide) is a lethal poison.

[Tom Mason]

Alive still... Just got back from a few-day vacation for Thanksgiving.

I need to get myself settled and I read through this among other things. I will add anything if I think of something.

[Citizen Karne]

Caboose, if you find opportunism like that so scummy, I suggest your next vote be one for yourself, my friend. FoS: Caboose

So you don't think that my reason for voting K7 is legit? How so?

No, I do not. I feel it is weak and seems to be motivated solely by the fact that a bandwagon seems to have sprung up. The wagon is also fairly weak. If K7 is lynched and turns up town, you can defend yourself by saying you had a different reason for voting K7 than a majority of the others on the wagon, who are using a false meta to justify getting rid of a lurker. This can help to direct criticisms of the wagon away from you, who happened to have a reason but was wrong, and shift it to the others, who were just wrong and didn't have a solid reason. In the process, the fact that your "reason" is extremely weak and makes almost zero sense as a scumtell (he agreed with analysis of a scummy player by an experienced member of the game late in the wagon when there is very little to add to the argument that is original content).

If you are scum, I highly doubt you thought it out to this extent, as I agree it does seem rather impractical that someone would formulate to this degree about one vote in a game, but if you look at the basic principal here, it is that a player is being opportunistic, and the reasons that being that way is helpful to one's survival are both intrinsic and inferred knowledge, and that this is just a complete play-by-play, so to speak, of a person's rudimentary psychology as they make a common scum move.

Tl;dr: you set yourself up for a "I misinterpreted the facts while these guys used bad judgement; don't look at me, look at them," which I happen to find scummy.

[Battle Mage]

The lurking on K7's part doesn't concern me. The fact that he comes out of nowhere and puts BA at L-2 for a pretty weak reason does. The vote backed up with the reason of "what BM said" just doesn't sit well with me. He conviently comes out of lurking to put BA at L-2 and then makes the reason that BM has a good case. Something just doesn't seem right about that.

Vote: killa seven

That said, springlullaby's uncooperativeness is getting really annoying.

The lurking is the reason why BM wants to lynch him. You want to lynch him because of putting BA at L-2. I no longer think of this as a LAL case as Caboose tried to make reason to it. I would like to hear from K7 before I even think about adding my vote to the mix.

why was putting BA at -2 scummy?

BM

No, that's not what I said, either. Lurking by itself isn't particularly scummy and putting someone at -2 isn't scummy by itself either. But the combination of those two, IMO, are.

Lol, are you really saying that 2 non-scumtells make a scumtell? 0 + 0 = 1?

BM

Let's use another analogy.

By itself, carbon is not a dangerous substance. What we call pencil lead is not lead at all, but graphite, which is all sheets of carbon. In fact, the basis of organic chemistry is the element carbon.

Also by itself, oxygen is not a dangerous substance either. We actually need it to live.

But, the compound CO (carbon monoxide) is a lethal poison.

Nice analogy. It falls flat however, given that Carbon Monoxide is produced from Carbon and Oxygen as a result of a

reaction

which combines the two together.

No such reaction occurs when you combine 'lurking' and 'putting someone at -2', unless there's something i've missed here. You claim neither act is scummy, and yet, together, they constitute a significant scumtell. Please explain this furthere for me.

BM

[Battle Mage]

why are you considering 'adding your vote to the mix' then?

BM

Right now I am not adding my vote to the mix. I would like a real reason for lynch someone. I guess I just have not been around long enough to lynch all lurkers yet.

do you think that reason will come directly from K7?

BM

[raider8169]

do you think that reason will come directly from K7?

BM

Good point, I have no real way to defend my position other then it just doesnt seem right that he is the only person worthy of a lynch right now. I assume others feel the same way otherwise they would have add their votes as well.

[killa seven]

Im behind, catching up.

[Tom Mason]

Im behind, catching up.

You have been playing catch-up since you entered the game almost two months ago. I have still yet to see anything substantive or useful posted from you.

[tubby216]

i am willing to wait two more real time days to give killa seven time to "catch up" if there is nothing of substance by the end of that period my vote will go to him

[tubby216]

little under 24 hours till i move my vote to killa seven,,

[Tom Mason]

little under 24 hours till i move my vote to killa seven,,

I have little faith in him completelying it in a 48-hour time frame when he could not complete it in a

48-day

frame.

Sadly, his unproductive nature is the only real reason I see for a vote against him.

[skitzer]

Vote Count Two of Day Four

(3) Tom Mason: Cyberbob, Lowell, EGL
(2) springlullaby: Skruffs, Tom Mason
(2) killa seven: Battle Mage, Caboose
(1) BlakAdder: tubby216
(1) Caboose: springlullaby

(4) Not Voting: Citizen Karne, BlakAdder, Surye, raider8169

With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch!

Last Post Count Two of Day Four

Key:
Green - posted in last 24 hours
Blue - posted in last 48 hours
Olive - Posted in last 72 hours
Red - Posted more than 72 hours ago, prodded
Dark Red - Requiring Replacement
Dark Blue - Vacation/Limited Access

Tom Mason

tubby216

killa seven

raider8169

Battle Mage

Citizen Karne

BlakAdder

Caboose

EGL

springlullaby

Lowell

Cyberbob

Skruffs

Surye

Prodding BlakAdder, Caboose, EGL, springlullaby, Lowell, Cyberbob, and Skruffs.
Surye may be replaced due to inactivity.

[BlakAdder]

Still here. Not much to say right now.