Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[sheepsaysmeep]

I feel like theres a legitimate reason to why people take pagetops. like it's so unsatisfying to notice your next post would be on the new page; I'd rather first start the new page and then much more at ease

[fireisredsir]

i can kind of relate because i don't feel like i have a very good read on the individual, more of my read came from guerillawoo

i think for me maybe it's more just feeling like the slot fits into a potential scumteam from like, a gamestate/poe perspective? which isn't super satisfying, which is part of why i was interested to see what you came up with

i think from aureal herself the thing that stood out most to me as pinging AI were the posts she made surrounding me, they just felt a little... off, i guess. some of that you touched on. it seemed more positional than being a natural train of thought

[fireisredsir]

i should probably look at guerillawoo again bc i remember being pinged early but then i think i felt better about the slot later and i don't remember why

[fireisredsir]

sheep, do you have any thoughts on aureal?

[Aisa]

I don't know if I can get over Alianna's play. It's totally possible she had an off game and she was obviously sick for like half of day 1.
all those vibe reads she had no explanation for, though...

I think fire is doing ok and would probably be getting a pass from me if it weren't for Alianna. I like the case on skitter specifically; I think prior to that his discussion with Menalque was all defense he might feel compelled to do as either alignment.

[Aisa]

i can kind of relate because i don't feel like i have a very good read on the individual, more of my read came from guerillawoo

i think for me maybe it's more just feeling like the slot fits into a potential scumteam from like, a gamestate/poe perspective? which isn't super satisfying, which is part of why i was interested to see what you came up with

i think from aureal herself the thing that stood out most to me as pinging AI were the posts she made surrounding me, they just felt a little... off, i guess. some of that you touched on. it seemed more positional than being a natural train of thought

Yeah, I'm kind of at a weird point in the game where I've either got it mostly solved or I'm very badly misclearing someone, and the PoE is also doing some of the lifting behind my suspicion of Aureal.

What do you mean by gamestate perspective? I remember that post about you thinking there should be scum in the "driver's seat" of this game but it's not clear to me how this all connects to Aureal

I can empathise with Aureal's posting on you insofar as her point is "fast wagons are scary and I don't know if the sudden votes on fire are town-motivated" but the lack of acknowledgement of e.g. why Ceph scumreads your slot bugs me

[fireisredsir]

by gamestate i meant where the slot has been sitting in the game, i guess

it felt like woo got some suspicion, but not too much, it fell off a bit and was never really revisited, the slot has kind of been present but not standing out. it doesn't feel like there's been as much signficiant pressure or investigation into the slot as other slots. seems like people are kinda passing over it and looking elsewhere. im not sure how to describe it. it just feels like a place where scum would sit in this game

so i guess to continue the analogy if there's a scum in the drivers seat then there's also probably a scum who is perfectly content to be in the passenger seat

[fireisredsir]

hmm ok reread woo and im not sure why my scumread didn't stick around

the main thing i noticed originally and that i still see is that his reactions to certain things just feel off, a little too stiff or something, especially when pressured

[fireisredsir]

The wagon on Andante's pretty good, but Drew has said he wants to catch up so I don't know why he's being wagoned either.

Do you think the people voting me think I am scum?

Yeah I don't wanna defuse any pressure they got on you, you're still null to me.

Why are you asking me this tho, aren't you caught up

this post especially but its a vibes thing

it just feels like he's kind of awkwardly caught having to respond about something that he didn't really think all the way through but he's trying his best to not look awkward

[Aisa]

Spoiler:

i think skitter limiting herself to looking for scum in a group of 4 is really unlike how she engages with the game as town

it's something that i could see her doing, but i think even when she does she doesn't just push for the lim she wants, she still is open and trying to solve the game as a whole and sort what's happening around her

i don't really get the feeling that she's doing that here. her focus pool is my slot, ceph, implosion, and sheep. since she made the post laying out that group (960), here's what her posts have been about:

Spoiler: skitter pos summaries

- ceph
- sadness about replacements
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- andante slot
- replace out rules discussion
- replace out rules discussion
- ceph (talking to implosion)
- replace out rules discussion
- would wagon alianna or ceph (talking to implosion)
- ceph and dunn (response to implosion)
- would wagon alianna or ceph
- ceph
- ceph
- her focus pool (talking to ceph)
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- her focus pool
- sheep
- her focus pool
- her focus pool (talking to implosion now!)
- aureal
- aureal (response to aisa)
- ceph and sheep (talking to mena)
- sheep (talking to mena)
- focus pool and sheep (talking to implosion)
- comment on thread state being dead
- dunn and aisa
- sheep
- meg/andante slot and alianna/delta/me slot
- meg slot
- me
- replacements
- me
- me
- me
- andante (answering my question)
- egix
- mena and me (talking to me)
- voting me
- ceph and herself (talking to egix)
- mena
- vc and meg slot
- herself (talking to me)
- mena (taking to ceph)
- herself (talking to me)
- me

ok so sure, of the 50 posts since then that are about people in the game, 36 of them are about her focus pool. there's still 14 that aren't, right?

let's look at them!

Spoiler: skitter posts

i may or may not have had thoughts abt that but we're not supposed to talk abt rep-outs now i believe so kinda glossed over that

pedit ok i like the vote for now then

eh i dont' really townread it
i'm not sure it's scummy but like i don't think his reaction is townie either

dunn - nullscum, can wagon too

Aureal i think is townie

Aureal i think is townie

Interested in your reasoning

Good vibes from her rep-in

I think dunn and aisa are most likely town

Would kinda like to hear more from meg + delta

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

It's a lot easier for me to get to the right read on her if i know her alignment, i don't think it's so easy for me to actually read her

And fair enuf

Content and involvement

from my (admittedly not that well-researched) knowledge of mena's scumgame that seems pretty in his wheelhouse

i think of his main skills as being able to vibe real-time and successfully posture/front when he wants to seem confident in a solve

it's more effort than he's put into scumgames recently but eh

Why do you think mena could/would do that as scum

Like you said right after, i think his scumgame is more abt vibing in real time and buddying people

I think he's less likely to come up with a elaborate multi-day reaction test depending on a town-slot flipping scum if he were scum

But as of right now I'm kinda feeling like:

Aisa
implo
sheep
gwoo

are my prob towns

Okay, coming back to this:

- I can't remember why I had implo that high, he should be more like at the low end of the town pile (just vibes)
- I should have included Andante here, but simply presumed she would be self-resolving due to the PR claim
- Adding Ceph to this because I think he looked townier than skitter in the interactions they had earlier this Day
- fire is townier than Alianna was. I don't wanna go as far as saying "ooh I townread this slot now!" but I did not want there to be a hammer yet.
- I kinda think that Aureal's slot is just obv town at this point, her posting is even better than GWoo's was.

So, seems like that leaves me with Dunn, Mena, or skitter as my vote.

I don't have a case ready yet but I'll

VOTE: skitter

as she's the one I have the worst vibes from atm. (I skimmed her iso earlier so I should be able to elaborate when I have more time)

I would like to hear more abt why you think ceph was townier than me in our argument + more abt why you're voting me

I'll just say that in real-time it certainly felt like mena cared abt people's answers to those questions

I think mena's response was super thorough + townie

Isnt fire at e1 now?

I want nu-andante-2 to join the game and that the slot took an action last night before ending the day

i read most of those posts. someone else can just tell me if mena's huge wall was a good post i guess, i don't plan on reading it

It was

the only ones that i think could qualify as trying to sort or probe anyone are the two directed towards egix. two are talking about mena's towniness. three are talking about how she wants to hear from meg/andante slot. the others are (extremely brief) responses to other's questions, or one line statements of reads on people

i know going through all this is kind of excessive but im bored and i wanted to see if i was right that her focus has been extremely narrow, and i think it has. this is not at all what im used to seeing from town skitter. i think one of the hallmarks of her play is the way that she's always observant and questioning things that stand out to her, checking assumptions, and pushing things forward towards a place where she can see the game more clearly and solve it. she enjoys the puzzle of solving games

here that doesn't look to me like that's her goal. she's set up a group to look at and push within, and then has barely even touched anyone outside of it ever since. her engagement whenever questioned is limited, giving one line summaries of reads and mostly keeping herself closed off

another thing that is heavily lacking here that i think is usually present in her town game is that i don't see her finding town and working with them anywhere, or even attempting to. i don't think i would expect her to spend a significant amount of her time doing that as town, but she usually has at least some

if you want a comparison point, here is a recently finished game that is playing heavily in my memory, although ive played quite a few games with skitter and i think im pretty familiar with her style: viewtopic.php?t=90886&user_select%5B%5D=29653

in that i think the difference is super clear just from a glance. she's a lot more investigative, pushing in several directions, trying to solve the whole game, and much more willing to engage when asked for explanations or reasonings behind reads. she's just a shining beacon of towniness, especially once it gets into the midgame. here it feels like she's trying to mostly keep her head down and stay in her lane, despite being one of the top posters

The things that signal to me this might be a town!fire post are:
- I like that it's a meta read and that he is able to describe how skitt's play here seems different from her towngame in some detail.
- I find the pacing and trajectory before he made this post convincing. Like, he read the game, thought of a few slots he suspected, but was undecided for a bit about who to push. And then he deconfused himself and decided to push skitter. This is probably isn't all that AI because he says he is good at keeping a consistent and cohesive mindset. But I guess that if he is scum here I can confirm that he is lol

I think I also mostly agree that skitter focusing on this pool of 4 slots is sketchy, but I also find that I actually really strongly agree with the bolded on an intuitive level:

b/c i think 0 is unlikely

...why though... am i speaking a different language or something

pedit b/c in the four billion games of mafia i've played,

i've seen a lot more day1 wagons with wolves on them than day1 wagons with no wolves on them

[fireisredsir]

i mean if she is scum then she's right and knows she's right

that statement being true in general theory doesn't say anything for her alignment and im not sure why it would

it's like in frenemies when datisi hardbussed his partner d1 and was like "ok guys there's always a scum on the wagon let's find them"

[fireisredsir]

my point wasn't that she shouldn't be looking for a scum there. i think thats valid and i think it's something she could do as town

my point was that she wasn't looking anywhere else

[Aisa]

i mean if she is scum then she's right and knows she's right

that statement being true in general theory doesn't say anything for her alignment and im not sure why it would

it's like in frenemies when datisi hardbussed his partner d1 and was like "ok guys there's always a scum on the wagon let's find them"

Last line made me laugh

Yeah, good point. I was trying to read for genuine motivation behind the pool of 4 slots gimmick and that statement rang so true when I read it that I thought maybe she just really, really believed it

But yeah I guess there's nothing stopping it from it just being the excuse she came up with as scum

my point wasn't that she shouldn't be looking for a scum there. i think thats valid and i think it's something she could do as town

my point was that she wasn't looking anywhere else

Yes, I think I'm fine with this

[Aisa]

my point wasn't that she shouldn't be looking for a scum there. i think thats valid and i think it's something she could do as town

my point was that she wasn't looking anywhere else

I think this point about her *not doing* things that you expect her to do is harder for me to assess, unless I literally go and read the whole game you linked. There are a lot of things I am not doing that I could be doing at any particular time, so for all I know you could just be holding her to an unreasonable standard. Maybe there's someone else in the game who's more familiar with skitter who can comment on this?

[fireisredsir]

yeah it is definitely a "compared to the skitter im used to" type of thing which i get is hard to assess

im also aware from general sentiment that the game was feeling a little dead on d2 with the replace outs and everything, and less activity = less things to comment on

but i think the key thing for me is that it didn't feel like she was trying to organically solve the game at any point during d2, she was just following the path she set for herself

[Aureal]

- Feel free to address any of my megapost!

It was multiball, it wasn't fake spew, lol. I totally wanted to find the Fire Mafia! The only difference between that and my towngame was awareness of my own partner. Not saying I won't still be able to be convincing if I ever manage to roll mafia in a regular game, but we all have yet to find that out.

I need to find some way to steal Andante's role rolls so I can play scum/PRs more, she always gets them and I never do.

On skitter, I'm not sure where you're getting certainty from. I said I felt "fairly good" and that was my initial impression from catch-up, not a deep look into her. My read has gotten shakier since then as more focus has been put on her. I really understand what you meant with that post of yours about feeling like you need to get a read on her and that's part of the reason I'm still pretty sold on you being town.

The Mena/implosion hedging I'm not completely sure what you mean? I don't even talk about implosion in the post you cite. I think I worded my comment about Mena poorly though - I was saying that we could consider Mena as being on the Enchant wagon (as implosion had suggested in 949 and I was vaguely remembering since I was reading some new stuff as I did my catch-up). Not anything about Menalque's alignment- I was putting him down as town for that and the read has only gotten stronger since to where he's my strongest townread.

CSF/Dunn... hmm, now that you bring it up again, something about that activity overview stuff is now pinging me. I thought it was a good point because I never just randomly open up activity overview - I use it to see when someone last posted if it seems like they've been absent, or maybe once in a great while if I'm curious about post count, but it's not something I use regularly. From Team Mafia though, I think CSF might actually make more use of it, she used it first when she went to look at my game. I'm not actually sure what this says about them though, lol. Is it weird for CSF to call someone out for using activity overview if she uses it in a similar manner, or is it her being able to discern someone using it in a scummy way because she uses it for information and has thought more about ways to use it? Hmmm, gonna have to think on that a bit more.

On implosion/Ceph, I'm still townreading implosion, but as I've indicated I am very confused by what he's been saying because he says he agrees with Ceph but his position does not actually agree with Ceph. Cephrir, on the other hand, feels like he's been taking the same trajectory as implosion on a lot of things and I find that more concerning.

- What do you think of Ceph's case on Alianna?

Hmmm. It's not too bad but I'm not really feeling much more convinced than when I read it the first time.

The first bit about the .05% scum thing could be scummy, or it could just be curiosity. I see people scumread this 'self-awareness' trait a lot, but some people just display it much more readily. I think Alianna might be one- I've not played with her but I have seen comments that she gets wrongly scumread easily and that feels like the sort of character trait that would match up.

The readlist being easy/matching with activity, again it's another thing that could be done by scum sure. But I recall feeling about the same when I got to it so it's hard to really complain about it. It's just... the sort of thing someone who doesn't have a lot of firm thoughts yet is likely to put out too.

The rest of the stuff about hiding behind others, yeah, same sort of thing. Could be scum, could be town who's not very invested/opinionated, and her fading activity makes me seriously consider the latter.

- Who would you kill right now if you had to, and why?

Merlyn 'cause she's always scum and I totally should've caught her in dividing connor except I was more pre-occupied with

than being brave and bold enough to hammer her in that game.

But for real, that's what I'm feeling fuzzy on now and trying to figure out. I've got a few townreads but I'm spinning my wheels a bit trying to sort the other slots. Dunn I'm still not sold on so my vote's still kinda stayed there. I would've been okay with fire for a while there during the Menalque debate but like I said, I don't get why a scum fireisredsir would start going at Mena like that. Mena thinks it was to make him a possible miselimination but I don't know why scum would feel any reason to do that? There's a couple others that'd be maybes which I should really look more into regarding interactions and such. I need to buckle down and dig into this game a bit more this weekend, I've been going mostly on feels so far.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I like fire's skitter read, at a quick skim. I think it's vaguely similar to mild paranoia ive been wanting to articulate that her reads are too static?
like for example, she first put CSF at wolf for a minor thing. then she keeps repeating here and there that she thinks CSF is a wolf, but many many people have expressed a different opinion and she doesn't engage with it. she asked me why I townread CSF, didnt rly do anything with the response; tons of other people say "I townread CSF" and skitter disagrees but just doesn't rly interact. I think something similar happened with Andante, where first she developed a push on Andante, then a bunch of people went "I feel like this is town for andante?" sorta stuff and I dont feel skitter faced that enough and instead just kept maintaining a rigid andante!wolf

when I saw fire talking about skitter I liked fire more, it feels like we're somewhattt poking at a similar thing

[sheepsaysmeep]

sheep, do you have any thoughts on aureal?

woo was meh, I feel like aureal today has been really pure

any particular posts about aureal I should direct my attention to

[skitter30]

what about the slot is scummy

and why do you think my mena push is more likely to come from me as scum

a lot of alianna's takes were questionable at best. she's very obvious of being town when she's town and contributing, here her thoughts felt a lot more forced
i'm also nto sure she would have replaced as town, and the fact that the slot went thru two replacements is questionable to me

for mena: i feel like you tried p hard to read his posts in not good faith. more importantly, i feel like when you realized you couldn't make it stick, you backed down: you didn't 'have conviction in what you were posting, and i found that scummy

[skitter30]

I am a little curious about fire's list of leading voices too, I don't think I'm

exactly

a leading voice today though I definitely was yesterday. Also curious what specifically about the gamestate makes fire think that someone in the driver's seat is likely scum - just because the most likely lim today is a mislim from fire's pov?

i hated that post b/c i don't think any of the people named are 'in the driver's seat', and i feel like by doing that he was trying to undermine how those people were trying to approach the game

i'm p sure that all three slots are town, and it feels like he's trying to lay suspicion on those people

[skitter30]

i dunno i feel like if skitter and implo and aisa are all town then y'all are probably fine and will get there eventually, so maybe it's also a "what scenarios cause us to lose here" mindset that i do sometimes fall into

but also it doesn't currently feel like the game is on a trajectory towards "getting there" so that makes me think that isn't the case

i think that this is scummy if you haven't solved the game yet, frankly

[Merlyn]

Hi everyone! I'm starting from the beginning, bear with me

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

Deny. Why was this a question though?

[Merlyn]

Merlyn 'cause she's always scum and I totally should've caught her in dividing connor except I was more pre-occupied with

LMAO happy to break this streak here.

[skitter30]

i think skitter limiting herself to looking for scum in a group of 4 is really unlike how she engages with the game as town

this is interesting b/c this is exactly how i approach the game as town
for example, mini normal 2181 (here, here, here. these are just few handful of quotes but honestly most of my game that phase was making this argument - i argued that there had to have been one scum on wagon due to my understanding abt the gamestate that i elaborated on it great detail. people didn't like that appraoch and complained quite a lot abt it. there were, in fact, two scum on wagon, and i was town)
i'm sure i can think of more examples but this is one that sticks out quite a lot

i felt v confident on this in that game, and was right. even if i can't always explain it, historically i tend to find that examinign wagons in this way (i.e. trying to figure out who was complacent and happy that a wagon was dead and who was on that wagon and why) tends to work for me, and i feel like there were a lot of similarities between how enchant happened here and how the mislim happened there, and i think this is worth exploring

i *do* do this as town quite a lot

it's something that i could see her doing, but i think even when she does she doesn't just push for the lim she wants, she still is open and trying to solve the game as a whole and sort what's happening around her

i don't really get the feeling that she's doing that here. her focus pool is my slot, ceph, implosion, and sheep. since she made the post laying out that group (960), here's what her posts have been about:

i feel, once again, that this is a conducive approach to the game.
additionally, there are 11 slots in the game right now. beyond you, me, ceph, implosion, and sheep, another 3 (i.e. half of the remaining slots of the game) got replaced over this time period and the game was dead-ish
what was i supposed to be saying abt them exactly anyways.
as more people repped in i talked abt other things, as you see later down in your list of post

like another way of putting it. there's 11 slots in the game. 1 is me, 4 were getting replaced, and i was focusing on one of those + another three people. So out of the 11 slots:
1 me
3 replacements

and i was focusing on 4 of the remaining 7, which is over half of the available people to talk to anyways. If i take your slot out too, b/c it was getting replaced for a lot of it, i was talking abt 3 of 6 non-me active players. i think that's p good, no?
i feel like trying to frame my focus as 'extemely narrow' is willfully ignoring the relevant context/gamestate
in order to find me scummy. like my bet is that if you looked at other people's iso's over the same time period they'd be focusing on a simialar group of people by defualt b/c like a fully 40% of the non-you players in the game at the time were getting replaced ...

additionally, i think it's kinda silly that you're pushing *trying to find scum in a group of people* as scummy - i'm literally doing what i'm meant to be doing as town this game

another thing that is heavily lacking here that i think is usually present in her town game is that i don't see her finding town and working with them anywhere, or even attempting to. i don't think i would expect her to spend a significant amount of her time doing that as town, but she usually has at least some

i feel like i've found several people as town this game (vizzy, mena, implo)
i actually think you're kinda right abt the working with them, i should be putting more effort into that
i think that generally when i'm having a hard time *doing* things in a sluggish gamestate it makes it hard to put even more effort to get other people to do things with me too

in that i think the difference is super clear just from a glance. she's a lot more investigative, pushing in several directions, trying to solve the whole game, and much more willing to engage when asked for explanations or reasonings behind reads. she's just a shining beacon of towniness, especially once it gets into the midgame. here it feels like she's trying to mostly keep her head down and stay in her lane, despite being one of the top posters

i really, really don't think i'm 'trying to keep my head down and stay in my lane', and i also think i'm willing to engage, solve the game, and am more than happy to explain more

i agree that i'm not 'pushing in several directions' as i may have elsewhere but as explained above extensively i don't think this is the right approach for this game based on what the gamestat is. i 'push in several directions' when i don't have a solid starting point. i have one now, so that's where i'm starting

i do think i'm taking more of a backseat and am maybe not as investigative, but like i'm moving on monday and don't have a ton of mental space for this atm so i'm doing what i can and /shrug i'll be around more and effort more when my life isn't in boxes

[skitter30]

responding in purple

Spoiler: skitter stuff

I feel like he was one of the sketchier votes on wagon + don't have any sort of read there

I... feel like you didn't read my posts then?

VOTE: skitter?

I thought this was NAGL for skitt.

961 - leaves out some relevant posts, as was pointed out by Ceph in 963 - 706, for example, couldn't have just been missed by skitt because it was right before two posts that she did quote, so it looks like she conveniently left out stuff that didn't serve to prove her point rather than giving a fair assessment.

i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence

I felt like this was a point in Ceph's favour.

objectively and i think you're good enough to see it

i am not going to quote posts to back that up i am simply feeling a righteous indignation that i can't feel as scum

Tbf I can't vouch for the self-meta argument (I don't think I've ever played a game with Ceph before) but I definitely feel a similar way when I get wrongly scumread in games.

i think you're usually good at mafia and the fact you can't find me as town right now makes me think that you are scum, regardless of what words you want to attach to that. i just don't buy that that is where town you wants to vote right now end of sentence

like i don't think you have any reason / history / anything to actually think this

you're not bleeding green rn (no matter how much you'd like to say that)

This links back to the previous two quotes - I can buy that even if skitt+Ceph haven't played together all that much (I don't know if they have or not, I'm just saying, even if),
a town (or at least, myself in that position) can still feel like they are being scumread by someone who is acting out of character.

i don't think that he was being objectively townie there (and other people agreed with me, and so i feel like i was right in making that assessment)
if he isn't objectively town, is someone who's generally ard to read, can't articulate why i should have been townreading him, and is someone i don't have a history of being able to read ...
i don't think it's reasonable of him to ding me for not being able to read him
also - even if you might be able to say that after the fact, *at the time* while i was arguign with someone abt this it's unlikely i'm going to reach this conclusion no matter my alignment, so ...

ok that's a different point than being able to townread you, which is what you were saying before

This looked to me like trying to deflect/move the goalposts - being a strong town presence and having good reads are not entirely mutually exclusive, as a higher level of involvement usually leads to better reads.

also i feel like you're cherry-picking posts out of context and/or aren't reading the fuller context, i said like two posts later that i had misunderstaood what he had meant and recanted this

=== Older skitter posts ===

I feel like he's~ ~present and thinking abt the game

so that makes invis town? yet I'm present and thinking about the game, but you think I'm scum?

I don't know, it feels townie for him
He feels like he's solving

You feel like you're just saying random stuff

This felt disingenuous imo - I thought that Andante had one of the better entrances to the game.

ok, why did you think that - i was referring to her string of posts 72-74 which were *wild* and completely out of touch with the game that i was reading, especially the implo post
and what maeks it 'disingenuous' vs me just having a different opinion than you

Reads are approximately this. They're relative to a scale, not to each other, and I went the other way around the colour wheel because (a) it's prettier and (b) my scumleans are usually orange. You can ask about my reasoning, but the response is going to be either "idk vibes lol" or "I already talked about that one."

{

Alianna

} - I townread Alianna.
{

Andante

}
{

Aisa, Invisibility, Cat Scratch Fever

}
{

sheepsaysmeep

}
{

Doctor Drew, implosion

}
{

Dunnstral, Cephrir, Menalque, skitter30

} - the null line
{

GuerillaWoo

}

So we have a problem. One person is sus and there's 2-4 bad guys in the game.
Kind of makes me think there's scum in the quiet people.
Or my scumdar's just broken.
Still like the Woo wagon for now, just think the null tier is worth looking into.

This is certainly an Interesting readslist

This post is low in value - at worst, it's shading.

I think

@implosion

it would be nice if you could explain your read on sheep
----

Baah I think this is one of those votes where I start typing up some thoughts to justify it and realise I have no real justification -_-

Let's see if this is better
VOTE: skitter30

?

I'm sorry I should probably stop voting before explaining haha

Anyway, I'd like you to scumcase Andante for me if that's ok. I understand that someone having different reads from me doesn't mean they're scum but I'd like to explore the idea that in this specific case, it means that, uh, you're scum
:]

1. Why do you think could be scum for having this read?
2. Andante came into thia game with a variety of takes that felt fairly outlandish to me: they were v disjointed, strange takes that by themselves didnt make sense, but also didnt make sense as a cohesive unit
3. For example, starting the game sk hunting is just weird and i think it's a weird place for town to start
4. The whole proclaiming herself to be obvtown ans finding people scummy for not seeing it was also kinda scummy

Point #4 isn't a scummy thing imo - I'd even argue it's towny (see my note on 980 for something similar)

I think we should just be flipping enchant here
Mena's

trajectory

today is ???? bordering on scummy

not this old chestnut lol. If only I had a quid for every time a scum tried to frame someone by pointing out their (

spooky ghost voice

) baaad progression, wooooo.

so:
1. trajectory works and is how i solve people: does their trajectory make sense for their approach to the game. if not, why not. could it be they have a different understnading abt X? maybe they have a different meta abt Y so approached that differently? if i can't arrive at a reason why their trajectory *makes sense to them*, they're usually scum. this is how i solve people and denigrating this approach is quite frankly shade
2. mena agreed himself that his trajectory was bad b/c he was doign a whole reaction test thing and said that i was right for calling him out on this .... calling me scum for this is, again, pulling things out of context