Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[skitter30]

Aisa is ostensibly locktown for like this entire page, IMO.

yes

[skitter30]

I am starting to buy that sheep could be scum. Feels like he's been left behind in the gamestate.

I'm also open to hearing what Aisa has to say about Aureal.

I think the townreads I feel best about in this exact moment are Aisa, Menalque, then Dunnstral, followed by Ceph and Aureal and then probably still sheep. Leaving fire/skitter/egix (which is very much Not The Scumteam lol) and the vacant Andantemeg slot which I guess I still think is town but golly it'd be nice to have someone piloting the slot.

yes this is what i was saying like four days ago ... i feel like he should have gotten back into it by now if he's town tbh
i wouldn't mind voting him

[skitter30]

id prob hero solve it at skitter/aureal/sheep at this exact moment tbh

i would like to hear more abt how me/sheep make sense as a team, ty

[skitter30]

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

yes i too would like to hear that

[skitter30]

And I read the post before, I mean I want you to cite the exact posts where fire is being objectively villagery

idk maybe there's nothing there if others dont see it lol. I just think his vibe is extremely villagery. villagery thought processes + very unafraid to engage with people + lots of WIM. I think he's had a pro-town effect on the game with how I had completely no motivation until fireisredsir entered and im like oh shit now we really have a game now theres good stuff. I have by far the best gut/natural reaction to his posting in this game before I process it and am like eh fine a wolf can do that. I would feel better about the wagon on him if it acknowledges those aspects of his play that I think look good (idk if it does that yet, I still havent read very in-depth and citing the specific posts u want rn feels weird cuz of that lolz. it's an eager open approach to the game thing

i appreciate that he kickstarted the game
i don't think that makes him town, idk why you think it does

and wdym by 'before i process it' - so you like his posting until you actually think abt the content, and then don't?

[skitter30]

The things that signal to me this might be a town!fire post are:
- I like that it's a meta read and that he is able to describe how skitt's play here seems different from her towngame in some detail.
- I find the pacing and trajectory before he made this post convincing. Like, he read the game, thought of a few slots he suspected, but was undecided for a bit about who to push. And then he deconfused himself and decided to push skitter. This is probably isn't all that AI because he says he is good at keeping a consistent and cohesive mindset. But I guess that if he is scum here I can confirm that he is lol

- idk why this is town-indicative, he should be able to explain how he views my game generally as either alignment? and if he's scum and wants to push me he's more incentivized to do that?
- well, i think that he had to back down from his mena push when mena pushed back and had to find somewhere else to push so like i don't really find this as townie as you do. it looks to me like he just needed to find a new push

[skitter30]

my point wasn't that she shouldn't be looking for a scum there. i think thats valid and i think it's something she could do as town

my point was that she wasn't looking anywhere else

pls see above abt *who else* i should have been focusing on during that time period, exactly ?

[skitter30]

Hi everyone! I'm starting from the beginning, bear with me

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

Deny. Why was this a question though?

please confirm or deny that you're a pr

[Umlaut]

Thread is temporarily locked while I look into a potential issue. If it takes more than an hour or so to resolve I will extend the deadline accordingly.

Edit:

Resolved, please continue.

[Merlyn]

Hi everyone! I'm starting from the beginning, bear with me

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

Unrelated but

@Merlyn

: hello! Can you confirm or deny this? (No need to claim what action your slot took, just that it took an action)

Deny. Why was this a question though?

please confirm or deny that you're a pr

At this moment, without having the rest of the game read, I'm only comfortable stating that my slot took no action last night. Now, let me know why you're asking or I'll just go back to reading and eventually catch up.

[sheepsaysmeep]

ur slot claimed pr btw

[skitter30]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

[skitter30]

Anyways, i think i likemy fire vote
Would vote sheep

Want merlyn to clear up this pr business

Like i said above i'm moving on monday so will be around sporadically foe the next few days

[Merlyn]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

So, I just finished D1- Andante hardclaimed PR. Not softclaimed. What do you mean, you're trying to verify if that is actually a claim?

[Merlyn]

Okay, I've caught up to D2. The rest will have to wait till tomorrow.

Spoiler: My Giant Wall O' Thoughts:

Okay, first two pages are just everyone being funny. Man, there are some awesome players in here, sorry I missed Drew and Alianna!

Page four the game is def out of RVS, first thing is a fight between my slot and sheep. For some reason skitter is in it being kind of aggressive to Andante. Sheep seems a little towny here to me- defending yourself against Andante is always tough. Not as sure on Skitter. TvS?

Implosion: ooh, I don’t know if I’d use the phrase ‘not-quite-locktown’ for sheep at this point though. That’s a bit much.

Now Invis is after my slot pretty hard. This is interesting, have they never played together before? Being ‘baffled’ at her play here would be very odd if they have, it’s very on brand Andante play.

Oh NVM, they just said they haven’t played together before. Yeah, I could see that being genuine bafflement then LOL

Skitter is back to stoke the fire on Andante.

Ceph, duns, and woo- 10 pages in and nuthin’.

I mean, you don't seem to have any reads?

It kinda feels like half the thread is inside jokes or references to games I didn't play, the other half is reads that change with the weather if the weather had a mood disorder.

LOL, but also I don’t agree? There’s been real discussion already.

What if they're scum looking for something to criticise?

That's always possible, but I didn't read it that way. I agreed with them, it was odd.

If that's the case, why were you so worked up that a wagon built on me?

I wasn't? Lol someone asked what I thought of the wagons. All I said is I don't know why you're being wagoned. This is coming off like you wanting me to address your wagon for you tbh.

There is a disconnect, you questioned why I was being wagoned just after Cat and I voted you. You then voice displeasure with my wagon, I ask what you think of the people on my wagon and do you think they scum read me, you deflected a bit until you said basically 'seems for pressure which is always good'.

Here's the thing, you don't seem scared about a couple votes on you, but I think you were trying to pocket me before your wagon really got going, especially since my wagon gained steam quickly, easy to be the white knight there.

This is pretty much what I was thinking about woo’s posts.

Dunn came in strong with noticing that Alianna’s reads match vote count. Their following posts don’t seem like they think she’s scum though, I’m interested to see if the vote stays.

WOOOO Asia came in and galaxybrained this, I have to be honest, I don’t find woo’s response authentic. I see that Implo and Sheep like it though, and I’m not sure why. The ‘why, though’ would make sense if Woo thought he was hammered without noticed- why that kind of response for what you think is an e-1?

Asia’s posts voting Andante are weirdly town for me. She’s, you know, wrong, but I think scum could come up with better reasoning than “I pulled up a year old game and I suddenly think completely different things now”.

Aisa's approach the last few days is nagging me

The way she has tested different votes (me, skitter, andante) just looks a little openwolfy to me

a) I think it highlights how she's struggling to form legit scumreads, which is just a little more likely wolf than villager

b)I think a more villagery approach would be like alianna's readlist, where she i) admitted explicitly to having a lack of wolfreads and b) concluded "there's likely a decent amount of wolves in the inactives," which is a valid conclusion imo. rather than like, aisa forcing herself to turn on different actives, such as her former townreads

Eh? Pressuring with votes is something town’s gotta do, voting is a weapon. Also, why a sudden defense of Alianna slid in there?


I’m not loving skitters casual slide in the enchant wagon.

skitter is, imo, a player who is easier to read as time goes on and generally the best approach is to treat her with good faith and to see where she's trying to steer the game -- if you're working with her and you land on town a couple of days in a row there is a good shout she's scum. this has been my default mode to approach her for I think years(?) now, but despite that I've been making slightly more effort to actually read her instead of just townbinning her until D3

Gonna quote this so I remember to look later.

And also they aren't doing nothing. Dunn had interesting comments on Alianna's reads list. Woo was doing nothing for a while, got prodded, and is now doing things. Not a ton of things, granted, but 407 is content, and many other posts are also game-relevant. Enchant's ISO has no actual content. Read it. It could have content if Enchant plays the game, but Not Playing the Game in the way Enchant is doing right now, is Enchant's scum meta.

this is accurate

I don’t think any of it is accurate actually

I think the game is like two thirds solved lol

No I will not elaborate at this point

Quoting THIS for posterity.

Thank you btw

I know deadline is approaching but I would still really like to see what both dunn and woo think of current gamestate before day ends

Mena seems town to me, scum should have let the wagon roll

Implosions entire main root of their case is using meta about enchant entrances…I would want something stronger than that if I was going to be so passionate, but maybe that’s how they always play.

My end of D1 takeaway is skitter, dunn, and implo, ceph are leaning scum for me, this may change as I read the rest.

[skitter30]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

So, I just finished D1- Andante hardclaimed PR. Not softclaimed. What do you mean, you're trying to verify if that is actually a claim?

Do you confirm you're a pr yes/no?

I'm trying to get you to either commit or walk it back

[Egix96]

ok, why did you think that - i was referring to her string of posts 72-74 which were *wild* and completely out of touch with the game that i was reading, especially the implo post
and what maeks it 'disingenuous' vs me just having a different opinion than you

I thought that it was towny that she was dispensing with the rvs humour and just digging her heels right into the game.

From what little I know of Andante's play, I think that she is usually very rapid-fire and spontaneous so the whole 72-74 sequence didn't seem out of character.

And I specifically thought it was disingenuous because frankly I find it absurd to just reduce Andante's posting to just "random stuff".

[Egix96]

by gamestate i meant where the slot has been sitting in the game, i guess

it felt like woo got some suspicion, but not too much, it fell off a bit and was never really revisited, the slot has kind of been present but not standing out. it doesn't feel like there's been as much signficiant pressure or investigation into the slot as other slots. seems like people are kinda passing over it and looking elsewhere. im not sure how to describe it. it just feels like a place where scum would sit in this game

so i guess to continue the analogy if there's a scum in the drivers seat then there's also probably a scum who is perfectly content to be in the passenger seat

Hmm yeah I feel like I ought to try to get a more in-depth read on the Aureal slot when I get the chance

Might not happen by the end of this Day tho

[fireisredsir]

for mena: i feel like you tried p hard to read his posts in not good faith. more importantly, i feel like when you realized you couldn't make it stick, you backed down: you didn't 'have conviction in what you were posting, and i found that scummy

thats just. idk. you very well know that isn't how i play the game. if im suspicious of someone and then they suddenly vomit towniness all over the page then im capable of recognizing that's happening and re-evaluating

i don't believe that you think im more likely to back down there as scum, and more likely to "have conviction" as town. that's bs

im well aware that mena can turn things on as town when he wants to and that's why it's worth pressuring him when im trying to sort him

then he did, and i saw it as town, and so i no longer am suspicious of him

[fireisredsir]

this is interesting b/c this is exactly how i approach the game as town
for example, mini normal 2181 (here, here, here. these are just few handful of quotes but honestly most of my game that phase was making this argument - i argued that there had to have been one scum on wagon due to my understanding abt the gamestate that i elaborated on it great detail. people didn't like that appraoch and complained quite a lot abt it. there were, in fact, two scum on wagon, and i was town)
i'm sure i can think of more examples but this is one that sticks out quite a lot

i felt v confident on this in that game, and was right. even if i can't always explain it, historically i tend to find that examinign wagons in this way (i.e. trying to figure out who was complacent and happy that a wagon was dead and who was on that wagon and why) tends to work for me, and i feel like there were a lot of similarities between how enchant happened here and how the mislim happened there, and i think this is worth exploring

i *do* do this as town quite a lot

i know it's something that you could do as town. but even in that game i think the energy and the way you're approaching it is way different

but again, the issue i have isn't that you pushed for there being scum on the wagon. i have no problem with that at all. so bringing up this meta point as if it disproves what im saying is just... idk, it feels like a distraction, because this was never relevant to my point

[fireisredsir]

i feel, once again, that this is a conducive approach to the game.
additionally, there are 11 slots in the game right now. beyond you, me, ceph, implosion, and sheep, another 3 (i.e. half of the remaining slots of the game) got replaced over this time period and the game was dead-ish
what was i supposed to be saying abt them exactly anyways.
as more people repped in i talked abt other things, as you see later down in your list of post

like another way of putting it. there's 11 slots in the game. 1 is me, 4 were getting replaced, and i was focusing on one of those + another three people. So out of the 11 slots:
1 me
3 replacements

and i was focusing on 4 of the remaining 7, which is over half of the available people to talk to anyways. If i take your slot out too, b/c it was getting replaced for a lot of it, i was talking abt 3 of 6 non-me active players. i think that's p good, no?
i feel like trying to frame my focus as 'extemely narrow' is willfully ignoring the relevant context/gamestate
in order to find me scummy. like my bet is that if you looked at other people's iso's over the same time period they'd be focusing on a simialar group of people by defualt b/c like a fully 40% of the non-you players in the game at the time were getting replaced ...

additionally, i think it's kinda silly that you're pushing *trying to find scum in a group of people* as scummy - i'm literally doing what i'm meant to be doing as town this game

i just think this is scum mindset and it's kinda exactly what my point was

i felt like you were just taking what was in front of you and "doing what you're supposed to do" and focusing on this pool of people rather than actually taking initiative and bringing the game closer to a solved state, and having that light behind your posts and that drive to figure things out

which i know that you do when you're town, ive seen it many times

and now when you defend yourself you point to how you did what you were supposed to do and how you couldn't have been expected to do more because that was what was in front of you

but like, you are a very careful scum player who plays a tight clean game and minimizes mistakes. and it makes it very hard for people to find fault in your posts. but i think that in playing like that, you miss some of the spark and the inspiration and the risk-taking that you have as town. and what im trying to show is why i think your play here looks more like that tight, clean, focused game, that lacks the spark of town.

[Merlyn]

ur slot claimed pr and basically used that to avoid getting pushed yesterday
i'm trying to verify if that is actually a really claim

i think you should claim yes/no pr

So, I just finished D1- Andante hardclaimed PR. Not softclaimed. What do you mean, you're trying to verify if that is actually a claim?

Do you confirm you're a pr yes/no?

I'm trying to get you to either commit or walk it back

Yes, of course I do. And I would do that as scum or town, obviously, because my slot has already claimed. Walk it back? There is no walking back a hard claim. Now, I'm gonna ask again- what did you mean when you said you wanted to 'verify if that is actually a really claim'?

[Dunnstral]

I liked Mena and Aisa's wall posts.

Fireisredsir is being very reasonable but I'm not sure if that makes them town. But I my reasons to scumread their slot weren't that strong in the first place either.

I was townreading GuerillaWoo while they were here.

I am coming around to liking skitter as well.

[Dunnstral]

Admittedly this game is very dense somehow and I'm not keeping up with everything. Early on it was all banter but now it is all walls of text. I haven't looked at fireisred's actual posts very hard

[implosion]

id prob hero solve it at skitter/aureal/sheep at this exact moment tbh

i would like to hear more abt how me/sheep make sense as a team, ty

I think you two make sense as teamed. Your push that sheep is coasting can make perfect sense from the perspective of scum who sees that their partner is starting to lose steam; either you spur them on to keep up their initial level of commitment or you get credit as one of the first people to point out that actually the consensus townread was perhaps misplaced if the town later turns on them. If you are both scum and you genuinely did believe that sheep was starting to coast, or if like sheep said in the scum PT that he wasn't gonna be able to keep up the same level of effort or something like that, then that trajectory would be a very sensible way to play.

i am not really caught up from my previous post, just skimmed, but glad to see that the empty slot is filled; should have more thoughts tomorrow.