Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[fireisredsir]

dunn is a bit of an enigma and i have trouble seeing beneath the surface for him so he's difficult for me to read

my original suspicion was more of a "i could see dunn being scum this game" than anything with a good reason behind it

i also don't really like that aureal has been voteparked there while spinning around not knowing what to do with the two main wagons

[fireisredsir]

like i kinda feel like aureal has been avoiding committing to really digging into attempting to read skitter despite her being the main alternative to me at the moment and has just been focused on "but why fire??"

[fireisredsir]

i think the play pattern makes a lot of sense as a scum paired with skitter who ended up on the wrong side of the 1v1 and now is sort of floundering unsure what to do, not wanting to hard commit to defending me or burying skitter, but not really having an easy way out of her current position, and maybe just hoping someone will finally answer her questions about why im scum and convince her to vote me

i think it's pretty scummy regardless of skitter's alignment fwiw, and would vote there, but i think it also makes sense as paired

[fireisredsir]

and the fact that she's been voting dunn when dunn is kinda in the type of position where he could easily be pushed as an alternative in situations like this, and probably won't fight back that hard, makes me not as interested in the wagon

[Aureal]

I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns

this game is just fucked so weird

You've got some pretty weird progression on my slot, lol. Here, I just ISOed you, here's a few of my thoughts to which I'll add that.

votes Drew in 240, no reasoning given and I'm not seeing anything coming soon afterwards
poking skeptically at other people like Alianna (108, 242) CSF (241), Woo (311, 313), Aisa (401, 482, 487) but apparently not skeptical enough to move off the unexplained Drew vote
tries to ask people about skitter, has expressed no read (495, 555)
566 is a readlist with Drew at the bottom, still no explanation for that, just feels confident (655, 665)
then 874 and 875 basically just say Enchant should be resolved, still only because "not doing legit stuff"
D2 opening is weird, thinks Aisa's movements at end of D1 is wolfy and I've no idea why
lots more concern about Aisa throughout the day, pulling back a bit (1135, 1323)
read on CSF keeps going back and forth
doubt about fire wagon, doubt about skitter, townreads me for no reason (1367) and just now expresses worry that was never expressed prior but it's okay because my post cleared it up

dunn is a bit of an enigma and i have trouble seeing beneath the surface for him so he's difficult for me to read

my original suspicion was more of a "i could see dunn being scum this game" than anything with a good reason behind it

i also don't really like that aureal has been voteparked there while spinning around not knowing what to do with the two main wagons

Well, after that I think I'm back to my Dunn/sheep thing. So yeah.

Feels like we're more likely to go for sheep here from what people have been saying, unless Merlyn is being really convincing where I couldn't be (which is totally possible)? Can we make one of them a wagon? Merlyn whatcha think about sheep?

[Merlyn]

So, the main reason you aren't considering Dunn is bc of Aureal voting Dunn? I don't think that's enough not to consider them. If Aureal is scum, she's a good enough player to feel comfortable throwing a vote at a partner who doesn't even have a wagon on them. That's a pretty low risk thing.

P-edit: I would prefer hearing about why skitter specifically is a better choice than Dunn, talking only about Aureal doesn't seem to be a helpful thing right now. Like, she has no votes on her and we have about a day and change, so the time would probably be better spent on you, skitter, and dunn.

P-edit again: I'll look at the ISO you just put up of sheep, the thing about them that pinged me so far was I noticed they keep posting, "this game is tough!" and "we need more people to engage!" without a ton of content on their part. It's why I asked about what concerns you resolved in your pretty short post, without knowing them it looks like a post that scum can make to stay active and look helpful.

[Aureal]

Whatcha thinking about sheep now, fire? I can try looking at skitter's ISO too but your argument seems primarily meta-based and it feels like you've back a good bit off of it since arguing with her. So I don't know that I'm going to get much out of it. I was going to vote sheep here but now Merlyn's voting Dunn so I'd literally be going back to vanity wagoning and hoping people follow.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns

this game is just fucked so weird

This is more for a future day, but what concerns did you have, and how did Aureals post resolve them?

I felt like they were hinting at wariness about the fire wagon but not being outright enough. struggling to find the words to describe it rn; like shading the fire wagon. like when I felt weird about the fire wagon (first I talked about how I felt about the wagon and then I saw aureal's earlier posts) I feel like I did it much more directly. the recent post is like definitely very direct and I think her concerns about red wagon are pretty similar to what my concerns were lol with some differences but similar enough that it's like a mind meld

[fireisredsir]

I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns

this game is just fucked so weird

You've got some pretty weird progression on my slot, lol. Here, I just ISOed you, here's a few of my thoughts to which I'll add that.

votes Drew in 240, no reasoning given and I'm not seeing anything coming soon afterwards
poking skeptically at other people like Alianna (108, 242) CSF (241), Woo (311, 313), Aisa (401, 482, 487) but apparently not skeptical enough to move off the unexplained Drew vote
tries to ask people about skitter, has expressed no read (495, 555)
566 is a readlist with Drew at the bottom, still no explanation for that, just feels confident (655, 665)
then 874 and 875 basically just say Enchant should be resolved, still only because "not doing legit stuff"
D2 opening is weird, thinks Aisa's movements at end of D1 is wolfy and I've no idea why
lots more concern about Aisa throughout the day, pulling back a bit (1135, 1323)
read on CSF keeps going back and forth
doubt about fire wagon, doubt about skitter, townreads me for no reason (1367) and just now expresses worry that was never expressed prior but it's okay because my post cleared it up

dunn is a bit of an enigma and i have trouble seeing beneath the surface for him so he's difficult for me to read

my original suspicion was more of a "i could see dunn being scum this game" than anything with a good reason behind it

i also don't really like that aureal has been voteparked there while spinning around not knowing what to do with the two main wagons

Well, after that I think I'm back to my Dunn/sheep thing. So yeah.

Feels like we're more likely to go for sheep here from what people have been saying, unless Merlyn is being really convincing where I couldn't be (which is totally possible)? Can we make one of them a wagon? Merlyn whatcha think about sheep?

why are you back to dunn/sheep? your post just kinda lists out what sheep has done, i don't get why you think he's scum as a result of it

[fireisredsir]

So, the main reason you aren't considering Dunn is bc of Aureal voting Dunn? I don't think that's enough not to consider them. If Aureal is scum, she's a good enough player to feel comfortable throwing a vote at a partner who doesn't even have a wagon on them. That's a pretty low risk thing.

P-edit: I would prefer hearing about why skitter specifically is a better choice than Dunn, talking only about Aureal doesn't seem to be a helpful thing right now. Like, she has no votes on her and we have about a day and change, so the time would probably be better spent on you, skitter, and dunn.

1) that's part of it but also i don't scumread dunn and i think his thing he did with calling andante town for replacing out and just the way he went about it feels very very town to me, even if the rest COULD come from him as scum

2) ive talked about skitter plenty you can find the posts where i explain why i think she's scum

[sheepsaysmeep]

I was going to write about aureal being wolfy but that post resolves a lot of my concerns

this game is just fucked so weird

You've got some pretty weird progression on my slot, lol. Here, I just ISOed you, here's a few of my thoughts to which I'll add that.

votes Drew in 240, no reasoning given and I'm not seeing anything coming soon afterwards
poking skeptically at other people like Alianna (108, 242) CSF (241), Woo (311, 313), Aisa (401, 482, 487) but apparently not skeptical enough to move off the unexplained Drew vote
tries to ask people about skitter, has expressed no read (495, 555)
566 is a readlist with Drew at the bottom, still no explanation for that, just feels confident (655, 665)
then 874 and 875 basically just say Enchant should be resolved, still only because "not doing legit stuff"
D2 opening is weird, thinks Aisa's movements at end of D1 is wolfy and I've no idea why
lots more concern about Aisa throughout the day, pulling back a bit (1135, 1323)
read on CSF keeps going back and forth
doubt about fire wagon, doubt about skitter, townreads me for no reason (1367) and just now expresses worry that was never expressed prior but it's okay because my post cleared it up

can you talk about why u think some of these things like weird progression are wolfy? or lacking explanation?

I guess I mostly see why they would seem intuitively so lol but I feel like this altogether is presented too indirectly. it would help read u if you can sort of make like another linking step

[sheepsaysmeep]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

[fireisredsir]

Whatcha thinking about sheep now, fire? I can try looking at skitter's ISO too but your argument seems primarily meta-based and it feels like you've back a good bit off of it since arguing with her. So I don't know that I'm going to get much out of it. I was going to vote sheep here but now Merlyn's voting Dunn so I'd literally be going back to vanity wagoning and hoping people follow.

sheep was a strong townread who became a... light scumlean i guess? id rather he flip than dunn or like, most of the rest of the game, but he's not my top choice

i still think skitter is scum and i still want to lim there, i was just talking to her about the possibility of her being town bc that's what she was asking about

[fireisredsir]

i also kind of like what sheep is saying rn bc i feel like we're mostly saying the same things repeatedly lol

[Merlyn]

Looking at that ISO it looks to me like a list of what sheep HASN'T done- post concrete reads or pressure people they find sus. I know that sometimes town can run around being indecisive though and I don't think this is strong enough to vote for them. I'll stick with Dunn or skitter.

[Merlyn]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

[sheepsaysmeep]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

I rly have no idea about that slot lol, I need to ISO it sometime but like probably not this day cuz it doesnt matter we shouldn't CFD at this point

if we lim fire and fire flips town I would townread the slot but fire actually makes a really good point about avoiding skitter so possibly nvm

[Merlyn]

So, the main reason you aren't considering Dunn is bc of Aureal voting Dunn? I don't think that's enough not to consider them. If Aureal is scum, she's a good enough player to feel comfortable throwing a vote at a partner who doesn't even have a wagon on them. That's a pretty low risk thing.

P-edit: I would prefer hearing about why skitter specifically is a better choice than Dunn, talking only about Aureal doesn't seem to be a helpful thing right now. Like, she has no votes on her and we have about a day and change, so the time would probably be better spent on you, skitter, and dunn.

1) that's part of it but also i don't scumread dunn and i think his thing he did with calling andante town for replacing out and just the way he went about it feels very very town to me, even if the rest COULD come from him as scum

2) ive talked about skitter plenty you can find the posts where i explain why i think she's scum

1) Okay, I went back and read the post in question again, we may just not be on the same page there. I see zero reason scum wouldn't put up a strong defense of a slot they know will be revealed as town- I mean, let's be real, my slot is unlikely to survive the night, it's a good spot for scum to say 'look! I was right that they were town!' about. I guess it could see more town to me if Dunn had swooped in to save my slot from an imminent lim, but that doesn't seem like how things were going.

2) Fair enough, I can see why you're sticking with your vote. I don't disagree with your skitter posts either, so I get it.

[Merlyn]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

I rly have no idea about that slot lol, I need to ISO it sometime but like probably not this day cuz it doesnt matter we shouldn't CFD at this point

if we lim fire and fire flips town I would townread the slot but fire actually makes a really good point about avoiding skitter so possibly nvm

I can see Aureal's point, though, this is another good example of it. You look like an active contributor, but your posts have actually been "Aureal seems town to me, people need to talk more about the wagons, Aurea might not be town after all, unless fire flips then they might be town, but then again nvm." So there's been no content. How about this: what do you think about my case on Dunn?

[Aureal]

Looking at that ISO it looks to me like a list of what sheep HASN'T done- post concrete reads or pressure people they find sus. I know that sometimes town can run around being indecisive though and I don't think this is strong enough to vote for them. I'll stick with Dunn or skitter.

Yeah, pretty much. Primarily from day one stuff, where he just plopped a vote down on Enchant and it stayed there the entire day without any explanation. Like it's just sooooo obvious that it doesn't need any. It feels more like trying to stir some pots to look busy/hopefully gin up some suspicion for later on other slots because this push doesn't need it. I suppose this is possible for town too, it just seems more wolf-motivated. Like, early in D2 sheep talks about how he felt on the same page as implosion and Ceph (943) which feels more like trying to latch onto them for cover because sheep didn't actually push Enchant at all other than those posts late in the day making it out as a done deal, must stay the course. And now he feels like he's doing the same with me and my suspicion of the big wagons.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I sorta wolfread pushes like that that are just like "this person did this and that" and the implication is that those are wolfy things, for things I think are stereotypically wolfy but imo aren't actually wolfy, like flip floppy progressions etc.

like it can easily reveal wolfiness with further depth, like if the jolting around fits with agenda / thread sentiment but I dislike selling it like that at face value

So, just checking, you're not feeling Aureal as town anymore?

I rly have no idea about that slot lol, I need to ISO it sometime but like probably not this day cuz it doesnt matter we shouldn't CFD at this point

if we lim fire and fire flips town I would townread the slot but fire actually makes a really good point about avoiding skitter so possibly nvm

I can see Aureal's point, though, this is another good example of it. You look like an active contributor, but your posts have actually been "Aureal seems town to me, people need to talk more about the wagons, Aurea might not be town after all, unless fire flips then they might be town, but then again nvm." So there's been no content. How about this: what do you think about my case on Dunn?

this is a fair point about me and I think it's fairly villagery the way you've been presenting it lol

I'll take a look im so behind bro im sorry

[sheepsaysmeep]

is the dunn case 1469?

[Merlyn]

is the dunn case 1469?

Yup yup, that's why I'm voting Dunn.

[sheepsaysmeep]

hm

tbh at first thought I just dont find it compellingly scummy. which feels sorta rude because I cant rly explain it at all lol im sorry.

I was gonna ask if ur familiar with dunn but I saw u said ur not; I think if u were you might find this stuff more nai, maybe not fully, but I can just very easily see it as villa!dunn who just pokes around and doesnt think he needs to explain himself lol

that is what my personal response looks like

[sheepsaysmeep]

if anything I think dunn being so unexplained lurking-in-the-shadows says town-dunn to me lmao but thats leaning into gutty reads to ideally not rely on mid-game