i feel like maybe 1% of mafia games have actual instances of mafia intentionally misinterpreting something to gain a rhetorical advantage. it's just so easy to refute by saying "no, i meant z, not y". As such I think it's an extremely high burden to show that someone is actually willfully misrepresenting something, at least that they're doing so in a way that is specifically as mafia trying to lie to gain rhetorical advantage in an argument. Maybe you're using the word willful differently from me.
I tend to think that this sort of thing is more often someone who misread something or misinterpreted some phrasing (because we're on the internet, and we don't have body language cues or tone of voice or anything that would make it easy to actually interpret what anyone is saying) and then got stubborn about it.
@Ydrasse: the game state is heavily tainted by the history of how we got here. Right now I think me, Aisa, and Menalque are somewhat consensus townreads; I'm happy to justify the ones on Aisa and Menalque (no one has really questioned me being town meaningfully all game so I haven't had to argue why I'm town at any point lol but I think most people's reasoning goes back to how I pushed Enchant on d1). If (maybe a big if but whatever) all those names are town then that leaves a pool of 6.
Yesterday had competing fire/skitter wagons; fire was being suspected partially because of their predecessors' play but also Menalque heavily suspected their play as well. This is why fire is the vaguely-default lim for today (also bc skitter flipped town and was suspicious of fire).
There hasn't really been a whole lot of consensus on anything whatsoever today, be it who to lim or whether to massclaim or etc.
In post 1973, Dunnstral wrote:
Tl;dr for the whole game is that we miselimmed twice and we have no info and are trying not to miselim again today. The 1-shot cop claimed for no reason on day 1 and then didn't activate their ability night 1. And now they're dead with no check. Nobody else has claimed a power role so far, fire has claimed vt.
This is not necessary accurate. We don't know why there was no n1 action. Slot was replaced in the night and the replacement only made a 'hi' post then vanished and got replaced again so maybe an action was not submitted, but it's also possible there could be a roleblocker.
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance
In post 1965, Aureal wrote:
"super pure game" is literally the exact words used in 1897, it's not in any way a misrepresentation. That's literally what fire said. You just don't like it being pointed out that that's not true in any meaningful way that someone who wants to solve the game would use.
you are taking those words and applying them to a context that they were not used in, in order to misrepresent my position
There is no context other than THE ENTIRE REST OF THE GAME in which sheep twice voted out town and you call his game super pure despite that!
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance
did merlyn slot crumb at all to be nightkilled or were they townread or what’s going on there
i’m staring at the vcs and you have skitter pushed over fire after fires wagon was tepid for ages and town flip but then a town person on that wagon was killed which feels ??
Eh, if the consensus townreads are actually town I think there's still a good shot to pull through. We need to stop wavering about fire though. The fact that pressure on him seems to once again be getting diffused is just further convincing me he's scum.
"Yeah after a point it felt like Aureal was the only one talking sense despite being a goose so I just followed."
-furtiveglance
Eh, if the consensus townreads are actually town I think there's still a good shot to pull through. We need to stop wavering about fire though. The fact that pressure on him seems to once again be getting diffused is just further convincing me he's scum.
can you 1) explain the read succinctly for me and 2) who do you think is diffusing the pressure?
In post 1982, Ydrasse wrote:
did merlyn slot crumb at all to be nightkilled or were they townread or what’s going on there
i’m staring at the vcs and you have skitter pushed over fire after fires wagon was tepid for ages and town flip but then a town person on that wagon was killed which feels ??
andante had already hardclaimed PR for the slot mid-d1
In post 1982, Ydrasse wrote:
did merlyn slot crumb at all to be nightkilled or were they townread or what’s going on there
i’m staring at the vcs and you have skitter pushed over fire after fires wagon was tepid for ages and town flip but then a town person on that wagon was killed which feels ??
andante had already hardclaimed PR for the slot mid-d1
In post 1973, Dunnstral wrote:
Tl;dr for the whole game is that we miselimmed twice and we have no info and are trying not to miselim again today. The 1-shot cop claimed for no reason on day 1 and then didn't activate their ability night 1. And now they're dead with no check. Nobody else has claimed a power role so far, fire has claimed vt.
This is not necessary accurate. We don't know why there was no n1 action. Slot was replaced in the night and the replacement only made a 'hi' post then vanished and got replaced again so maybe an action was not submitted, but it's also possible there could be a roleblocker.
I interpreted them saying they took no action to mean that they didn't try to do anything, not that they were roleblocked after trying to do something. I also feel they would have simply claimed to have been roleblocked if that were the case.
side note is it possible for role claims in this setup to be pseudoclears
i don’t get entirely how it generates roles but if there’s like specific strings that setups can be (?) is it better to do that now to squeeze out where people can hide later
i feel like there’s a towncore atm and if it’s mostly pure AND we can get like further people to trust that we can’t inherently from play it’s probably for the best
In post 1977, implosion wrote:
@Ydrasse: the game state is heavily tainted by the history of how we got here. Right now I think me, Aisa, and Menalque are somewhat consensus townreads; I'm happy to justify the ones on Aisa and Menalque (no one has really questioned me being town meaningfully all game so I haven't had to argue why I'm town at any point lol but I think most people's reasoning goes back to how I pushed Enchant on d1). If (maybe a big if but whatever) all those names are town then that leaves a pool of 6.
Yesterday had competing fire/skitter wagons; fire was being suspected partially because of their predecessors' play but also Menalque heavily suspected their play as well. This is why fire is the vaguely-default lim for today (also bc skitter flipped town and was suspicious of fire).
There hasn't really been a whole lot of consensus on anything whatsoever today, be it who to lim or whether to massclaim or etc.
i would appreciate justification jumping off my last post
philosophically i think claiming sooner > later works better but that might that i’m obsessed with a dumb em setup where masons claimed and people solved before they burned through cleats in a smaller pool
here is my most recent explanation of Aisa-town. Everything about her play just looks like a townie who is lost and swept up in the maelstrom that is this game. I think that page that I reference in that post is nearly clearing on its own.
For Menalque, there are 2 main things to look at: the (i think somewhat more minor?) one is this post and its context; on d1 Menalque would have had to go through quite a bit of effort to fake his play as scum. The (maybe more major) one is this post and its context; on d2 fire started pushing Menalque and Menalque absolutely went ham on fire. I think consensus is that he comes off as a pissed self-justified townie in the exchange. I'm definitely less confident in him than I am in Aisa but I am confident enough that I think energy is better spent elsewhere.
And as someone who grew up in EM and who also thinks that on average on MS people massclaim later than they should: i've come around to massclaim today being a bad choice, even if we swing on to someone other than fire. I think it's a little complicated and I absolutely might change my mind but, as I mentioned earlier, massclaim in this setup is more likely to tell us who not to lim than it is to tell us who to lim, and so unless we get a non-VT claim there's not much reason to do it (and if scum do claim not-VT then they might be setting themselves up for doom later on so they can't do it to weasel out of a lim for free; again I'm not going to talk in detail about scum claiming strategy but yeah).
Actually there is a middleground option if we like, are collectively willing to bet the game on the towncore being town, which would be to massclaim minus the towncore and then have the towncore claim tomorrow. But I don't think that really achieves much.
In post 1996, implosion wrote:
Actually there is a middleground option if we like, are collectively willing to bet the game on the towncore being town, which would be to massclaim minus the towncore and then have the towncore claim tomorrow. But I don't think that really achieves much.
I was thinking something like this earlier I suppose
I think if someone in the poe is a pr, maybe clearing themself is more useful than their night action.
if they claim today and die tonight it was helpful to resolve them
if tomorrow is lylo and they claim, they cant necessarily clear themself anymore
ok i’ll read those in a bit because i’m heading off here now, but wrt mass claim i thought about doing the latter part where they don’t claim but then it ends up with bad potentials where we just outline the towncore has the prs actually oops or something silly
also the mu game just ended and sheep was mafia there and my reasoning for finding them on like day three (after i vited town over them teehee) was basically they make reads that they think other town should have even when town doesn’t with confidence
