Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.09

with 15 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-06-28 17:00:00).

yeet

Ausuka [3]:

Umlaut, Black, Doctor Drew

Bingle [3]:

Ausuka, Firebringer, The Bulge

Doctor Drew [3]:

Radical Rat, osuka, Merlyn

Black [2]:

Invisibility, Meuh

Cook [1]:

Bellaphant

Meuh [1]:

Bingle

not voting [2]:

Skygazer, Cook

mod notes

this is a mod note.

flavour

[Bingle]

Composition wise, I definitely like the Bingle wagon better than the Ausuka wagon

Assuming this means explicitly the people voting me and not the people expressing interest yet avoiding the wagon itself, agreed. I think there might be one scum on me, but the wagon itself seems decently town.

[Black]

I mean, I was referring to the skygazer white knighting me part. I don't remember it happening

I was talking about Meuh's post there fwiw

[Black]

It makes sense for you not to remember but Meuh coming in with "yeah what" implies she doesn't remember either and I'm not sure why she would expect to remember something like that? It just reads as defensive

[Black]

@Ausuka what do you think of 515 and Meuh defending you in general

[Ausuka]

I'm not really worried about it but i'll let meuh explain herself instead of trying to explain it for her

[Meuh]

I think the reasoning itself is fine but the bolded bit seems like it's overjustifying which I don't love

The bolded part is basically the only reason I'm voting for her lol. It's all gut

"X is scum because they're confident and I also am when scum" is fine enough reasoning, it's the wishy washyness around it and the lack of conviction being made as clear as possible

[Black]

I think the reasoning itself is fine but the bolded bit seems like it's overjustifying which I don't love

The bolded part is basically the only reason I'm voting for her lol. It's all gut

"X is scum because they're confident and I also am when scum" is fine enough reasoning, it's the wishy washyness around it and the lack of conviction being made as clear as possible

I don't have much conviction in that read and I don't think that's scummy tbh

[Meuh]

Played with her twice, she was town both times and this happened in both games, sure she could still be theoretically scum but it's enough to find the Ausuka wagon bad

So this only happened twice? Ok so it is an exaggeration

Ausuka getting into spicy 1v1s early on in day 1, getting voted by the other player in the 1v1 and OMGUSing them, then getting scumread for her confidence in that situation is a specific enough thing that I think twice in two games is enough to form a pattern? Or do I need a 50 game sample size? Calling this an exaggeration feels like an exaggeration

[Umlaut]

Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town ->

This is useful information if true, can you back it up? (I only really remember one game with Ausuka, and I was modding that one)

[Umlaut]

Oh, you're already talking about that, lol. I'm playing catchup right now.

[Meuh]

It makes sense for you not to remember but Meuh coming in with "yeah what" implies she doesn't remember either and I'm not sure why she would expect to remember something like that? It just reads as defensive

I was also in that game, and luckily enough I was ISOing Ausuka there when making the cyclical post to make sure I hadn't imagined Ausuka's 1v1 tendency and Ausuka's spiciest early 1v1 in that game was with... Skygazer, which doesn't really click with the idea of Skygazer WKing her

[Meuh]

Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town ->

This is useful information if true, can you back it up? (I only really remember one game with Ausuka, and I was modding that one)

I'll nab receipts

[Umlaut]

I feel like a whole lot of the arguing over what scum would do in this setup is assuming scum are any better than we are at figuring out optimal play. If I were scum in this setup I would have just come in playing my usual game and not thought much about the mechanical implications for at least a while.

[Black]

It makes sense for you not to remember but Meuh coming in with "yeah what" implies she doesn't remember either and I'm not sure why she would expect to remember something like that? It just reads as defensive

I was also in that game, and luckily enough I was ISOing Ausuka there when making the cyclical post to make sure I hadn't imagined Ausuka's 1v1 tendency and Ausuka's spiciest early 1v1 in that game was with... Skygazer, which doesn't really click with the idea of Skygazer WKing her

How did you know what game Skygazer was referring to?

[Skygazer]

I 1v1d her but I also remember defending her shortly after

[Skygazer]

that was the game i was referring to

[Umlaut]

I was going to say I could see myself voting Black, but tbh I really like 522/528. It's a good catch and I like that she's just pointing it out and not overselling it as some sort of smoking gun gotcha.

[Meuh]

Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town -> Ausuka joins game -> rolls town -> gets into 1v1 early on in day 1 -> OMGUSes the other player in the 1v1 -> gets scumread for confidence and for her behaviour in those interactions -> eventually flips -> flips town ->

This is useful information if true, can you back it up? (I only really remember one game with Ausuka, and I was modding that one)

I'll nab receipts

viewtopic.php?p=13754599#p13754599 (this whole back and forth with Skygazer following this post)
viewtopic.php?p=13758826#p13758826 (this one with Baltar, who happened to be the other scum there)
viewtopic.php?p=13595601#p13595601 (Ausuka and Shirou here in the other game I played with Ausuka)

[Meuh]

It makes sense for you not to remember but Meuh coming in with "yeah what" implies she doesn't remember either and I'm not sure why she would expect to remember something like that? It just reads as defensive

I was also in that game, and luckily enough I was ISOing Ausuka there when making the cyclical post to make sure I hadn't imagined Ausuka's 1v1 tendency and Ausuka's spiciest early 1v1 in that game was with... Skygazer, which doesn't really click with the idea of Skygazer WKing her

How did you know what game Skygazer was referring to?

Inference

[Ausuka]

I mean I distinctly remember you saying postgame you were trying to jump on skitter's push on me and like, the most you ever did was be like "yeah idk maybe ausuka isn't scum after all" when it was clear Ausuka Isn't Going To Happen but then afterwards was like "idk guys it's a LITTLE bit sussy ausuka isn't posting that much you know???"

I think comparing your play there to meuh's play here feels... Pretty disingenuous, especially when you have a much better comparison in, uh, Meuh's play in that game which is very similar to what she's done here? (viewtopic.php?p=13755145#p13755145) I'm also pretty sure she got heat for this same thing in that game, where she was town, so it feels a bit weird that you're doing that same thing here?

[Black]

Inference

That's fair

[Black]

Also does anyone know how to read Black? Cause I don't

VOTE: Black

What's your read on me here? Why am I scum?

[Skygazer]

I mean I distinctly remember you saying postgame you were trying to jump on skitter's push on me and like, the most you ever did was be like "yeah idk maybe ausuka isn't scum after all" when it was clear Ausuka Isn't Going To Happen but then afterwards was like "idk guys it's a LITTLE bit sussy ausuka isn't posting that much you know???"

I think comparing your play there to meuh's play here feels... Pretty disingenuous, especially when you have a much better comparison in, uh, Meuh's play in that game which is very similar to what she's done here? (viewtopic.php?p=13755145#p13755145) I'm also pretty sure she got heat for this same thing in that game, where she was town, so it feels a bit weird that you're doing that same thing here?

well it's a good thing that was just a bad attempt at a joke

it's interesting bc i remember defending you much more than j went after you but my brain is fickle and unreliable

[The Bulge]

i should also point out that it's not at all what the bulge was saying in 388. read it again, and then keep reading it until you understand it

There are two options: either the bulge is voting me for something I’m not doing or the bulge is pushing something colossally stupid. I acknowledge both options there.

i voted you because of your loaded question in 202; i dont believe youre arguing your point in good faith, just trying to force it through.

367 was about the entirety of page 9. youve repeatedly referenced a push against you that doesnt exist, presuming that 388 singles you out, and youve been rather aggressively defensive about it. your reaction to this imaginary push is more convincing to me than anything i said in 388.

Bulge is arguing that it's scummy that I'm calling out Ausuka for doing a thing I find scummy. (In this case, making herself less likely to be shot.)

you have quite the imagination! funny that youve accused me of misrepping you when i never said anything of the sort.

i should clarify; what im talking about isnt really mechtalk, its what typically takes mechtalk's place in a not-especially-mechanically-heavy setup, and thats very subjective theorycrafting discussed in a very objective sense about what to expect from each alignment in a given setup. its almost always distracting, annoying, self-indulgent at best and scum-motivated at worst. this kind of d1 discussion typically starts with scum in my experience and usually succeeds in distracting town discussions from real scumhunting.

@Umlaut: This, roughly, boils down to: Saying things are scummy [is scummy].

i cannot trust your defense is in good faith if this is how youre choosing to interpret mine or anyone's posts. atp i think my vote is just about locked in.