Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[sheepsaysmeep]

I guess I keep concluding that maybeeeeee 2 wolves explains, or it simply can't all be contained in fire-aureal-dunn so one of ydrasse/ceph Must contain wolf and slot in someway

[Aureal]

So then, if Dunn were to pop in and hammer me here, tomorrow you'd say the team had to be Dunn/Ydrasse because Ceph and fire obviously aren't scum because they wouldn't be on all the town miseliminations and judging by your preflip coloration there you're very confident Aisa, Mena, and implosion are town??

[sheepsaysmeep]

I dont actually think being on every mislim is towny lol

I was just trying to emphasize I really dont think "we gotta deal with the people who were on all the top wagons that missed" makes sense at all

despite that I can see how it's technically sorta intuitive

[Aureal]

If wolves would avoid it, as you said you think happens, it must be town who does it then, surely.

[sheepsaysmeep]

like

let's take what your saying; assume youre town, and this wagon on you goes through. so some of us were on a mislim 3/3 times

cephrir is voting you for ostensibly your exchange at the start of the day. he has wolfread both of your counterwagons (fire +

fire has flip flopped a billion times in terms of you / me

I am voting u for weird gamestate views + self preservation

which of these reasonings for being on a 3rd mislim is towny/wolfy to u? that's a depth I think is most intuitive to go to. rather than just employing the blanket "we've only hit town, so being on all the wagons is bad

like there is no direct benefit of going "this group of players is bad ! thats my legacy". fire/me are literally already the players we're looking at

[Aureal]

Does the fact that you have to add the disclaimer 'ostensibly' to what you think the reasoning is for Ceph's vote not concern you, lol? His trajectory this game is baaaad. Fight with town, check out and not re-evaluate, rinse and repeat.

[sheepsaysmeep]

I do have misgivings about cephrir lmfao not very relevant but yes valid post

[Aureal]

btw im not currently voting bc i kinda think ideal play here is probably to lim who the consensus townreads think we should lim

id rather have implo/mena/aisa decide bc even if somehow that isn't all town, at the very least it should be less scum-dense than the group outside of it

and i think if we flip a town who isn't me, especially being pushed for by me or members of that outside group, that's like worst possible scenario and we probably insta lose

if we flip me, especially if there's 2 scum, maybe we don't? bc then whoever doesn't die of the townreads at least gets a chance to reset and reassess

doing that approach rather than straight up voting maybe makes it harder to see what scum are trying to do after it's been proposed so it does maybe make it harder to solve the team, so idk maybe there's issues with that

On the other hand, this post has aged poorly. And it's only from two days ago.

[Aureal]

Like, I was gonna say something there about how if people who have done nothing but yeet town somehow can't envision a world where a townie is town, if those confused souls are actually town maybe they should realize they are not getting it and give someone else's ideas a try? Then I remembered that fire had already said that.

[Aureal]

Really, it seems pretty odd to me for people to be on nothing but town miseliminations. This doesn't ever really happen to me, I always end up off wagon or on scum or something in there to break up any miseliminations I end up on. The only game where I did nothing but yeet town was Purgatory and I was only in it long enough to have two cracks at it. And even then I would have been on a scum flip if other townies hadn't gotten exasperated enough with how slow I was to vote that they shifted the wagon on scum to a wagon on me instead.

[sheepsaysmeep]

a very broad example is that a large proportion of games are mafia sweeps, involving town leaders who control the main wagon and just keep missing

[sheepsaysmeep]

Idunno

I feel like overall you have been stagnantly pushing the biggest block of people, me/fire/dunn/ceph, in a way that wolves need to do if theyre not in a good situation right now.

and then in order to seem not like that, the big focus just shifts

like literally the moment the momentum changed from fire to me (implosion moving from fire to me), fire is maybe town for a weak reason, I go from having been more of a shade-target to scumread + vote

generally, your interactions have felt more like. pushing than like solving. I dont feel like you ask probing questions or collaborative question, no "whats your read here" type of blah blah. most questions when they appear feel like trying to catch me.

[sheepsaysmeep]

like your pool of wolfreads obviously contains at least one villager. but I dont see a motivation to solve this game more deeply. like exploring who's w/w within it or like a "shifting list" of if we can only resolve 2 ppl, or 3 ppl, from my preferred list, this is who it should be. just the same line between town and scum and no palpable worldview

[sheepsaysmeep]

also we still shouldve massclaimed today lmaooo

[Aureal]

a very broad example is that a large proportion of games are mafia sweeps, involving town leaders who control the main wagon and just keep missing

Hmmmm. I hardly see this, either. The only Mafia sweeps I've been in are the games where I get miseliminated day one.

My conclusion from this is that people should listen to me more. >.>

[Aureal]

Idunno

I feel like overall you have been stagnantly pushing the biggest block of people, me/fire/dunn/ceph, in a way that wolves need to do if theyre not in a good situation right now.

WTF does this even mean, lol? Four scumreads for a game that likely has three scum is a completely reasonable, healthy amount. Dear lord, I've had people get mad at me when I'm scumreading everyone in the game but

this

argument is new. Or is it that set of people that's weird? Should I be scumreading Aisa/Menalque/implosion instead?

and then in order to seem not like that, the big focus just shifts

like literally the moment the momentum changed from fire to me (implosion moving from fire to me), fire is maybe town for a weak reason, I go from having been more of a shade-target to scumread + vote

Oh no, I shifted from one scumread to another, how dare I!

Like really, if I wasn't willing to move from one scumread to another, people could complain about it being suspicious that I would scumread certain people but not vote them. There's always going to be some sort of silly thing like this to pick at if you're intent on picking at someone.

And that doesn't even make sense with your complaint above about me 'stagnantly pushing' this block of people. If I'm not moving out of that block of people, how can I be making it look like I'm shifting focus out of it by shifting focus within it?

generally, your interactions have felt more like. pushing than like solving. I dont feel like you ask probing questions or collaborative question, no "whats your read here" type of blah blah. most questions when they appear feel like trying to catch me.

I'm sorry, what?? I spent most of this day arguing with people because they didn't like my probing questions! And they are apparently now voting me for it!

And I thought you tried to meta me, how often do I ever randomly ask someone for a read on another player? I think the answer is 'basically never unless I'm interested in their meta or have very specific suspicions about something going on between them'. That sort of thing seems mostly useless to me, something you do trying to make yourself look active without having much idea what to do.

[Aureal]

like your pool of wolfreads obviously contains at least one villager. but I dont see a motivation to solve this game more deeply. like exploring who's w/w within it or like a "shifting list" of if we can only resolve 2 ppl, or 3 ppl, from my preferred list, this is who it should be. just the same line between town and scum and no palpable worldview

Again, you supposedly tried to meta me. Is this a thing that I do a lot of???

[Aureal]

Like, off the top of my head, I think the game where I tried hardest to sort people by "these interactions make them unlikely to be w/w" sort of thing was Purgatory. Probably because there was a lot of that sort of talk from others in it.

And as I just mentioned, that was my FAIL HARD ONLY YEET TOWNIES game.

So IIIIIIIIIII don't really know that I should be trying to force that sort of thing.

[sheepsaysmeep]

tbh that meta skim was so quick that I do not remember what I thought about it lol, I guess I would go back and look if we keep just sitting here

I just do not feel enough active solving interest in the game; like it's not about w/w reads, it's about, you want to resolve more or less 4 players, but town you should realize that's not enough solving because you almost always get limmed this game, so town doesn't have the opportunity to lim 4 other players. you have to get more specific than that but there's no semblance of like that spectrum in any of your thoughts

[sheepsaysmeep]

like I think this exchange within me fits with a similar idea. peoples' pushes on you are one of the literal best opportunities to sort those people. but the responses to me just feel like, aggressively focused on self-defense. ive been pushing you for quite a while and I havent felt any effort toward evaluating my alignment during those exchanges which is unnatural imo

[sheepsaysmeep]

within

with*

[sheepsaysmeep]

idk

if aureal is wolf, I think it's one wolf inside her pool of wolfreads. but at least one deeper wolf outside of it, like mena, or csf/ydrasse? I feel like she starts expressing csf potential push, then townbins csf for dunnstral push and then just never really talks about the slot ever again that I can find. I feel like the deeper wolf exists because if she's wolf, her pool of wolfreads/shady slots of me/ceph/dunn/fire wins the game for her if they all die, rather than tmi-ing all her partners

if aureal is villager, I think I feel like cephrir needs to die this game, fire needs to die this game. 1 more to find. but who knows if aureal and me is v/v we already lost ig lool

[Aureal]

I just do not feel enough active solving interest in the game;

Wow, that's pretty hurtful in a game where there are multiple people who are literally doing nothing but sitting here popping in every couple of days to post KILL THIS PERSON. Sorry I have a frigging life and can't just sit here making huge rambling posts all day like you.

like it's not about w/w reads, it's about, you want to resolve more or less 4 players, but town you should realize that's not enough solving because you almost always get limmed this game, so town doesn't have the opportunity to lim 4 other players. you have to get more specific than that but there's no semblance of like that spectrum in any of your thoughts

What the hell? You're acting like this wagon on me didn't just suddenly pop up out of thin air in the last 48 hours.

[fireisredsir]

it's more about what you choose to spend your time on than how much time you are dedicating

[fireisredsir]

like idk in this back and forth sheep is right

you're both using about the same number of posts and words but his are interspersed with what at least look like genuine attempts to solve the game and adjust his worldview based on new thoughts and information and treating things with at least some amount of nuance

that last part i don't think is very hard for him to fake but the rest at least takes more than just responding to points and defending