Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[Firebringer]

cool a cross kill
now i get to pretend i had a high brain plan of heavily townreading meuh to make that happen.
and i wasn't just bamboozled

thats my story and im sticking to it.

[Donempire]

Alright, you people have 20 hours to find the last scum. As it stands we have 4 lims until we win, discounting the IC its 8 town and 2 scum and we win whrn we hit just one. Odds are out of this world, so i want everyone to create readslists in the next 20 hours and after that i have a surprise for you.

[Donempire]

cool a cross kill
now i get to pretend i had a high brain plan of heavily townreading meuh to make that happen.
and i wasn't just bamboozled

thats my story and im sticking to it.

Why u take my pagetop

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Donempire

The more I sit on it, the more I don't like this. Bellaphant unfortunately didn't give us much to go on, but Don never actually voted Meuh, though he did express a willingness, with his actual vote going to Firebringer until the hammer.

In light of that, it is apparent to me that "I wanted Meuh, Firebringer wanted Black" is a bad faith argument, and even if this setup weren't designed so scum have limited information, Black was never a counterwagon to either Meuh or Firebringer, she was a counterwagon to Bingle, so the argument really only works on the most superficial level possible.

i think donempire is just stupid.
scum don't make these asine arguments of "ohh well obviously fire is scum because he townread a scum and pushed a townie". Scum would be smarter than that to know that they don't know the other team so me not reading meuh correctly obviously means nothing because even if im scum i have no way of knowing meuh was scum and if i did that means i killed her.

Which i think there is an argument that i would kill my heaviest townread in the game so i think that is a fair point to raise and argue but not the argument he is making here.

[Firebringer]

wait that last part might be his legit argument and he just didn't articulate it very well.
don't know who the stupid person is here me not understanding or him not explaining it well.

[Firebringer]

but you can't possibly reason that i would kill meuh after scumreading her to this extent.

this is also fricking dumb.
if ur scum ur not going to kill people of your reads in the game. You are going to look at everyones reads and see who is most townread and kill in those.

ur reads as scum are mostly fake (i say mostly because scum have to do some scumhunting in this setup)

[Firebringer]

fine with calling donempire town even though im clowning on him.

I wonder if i should revalute Drew though.
Still feel like tunneling Bingle though.

Kind of shocked Osuka is alive though?

[osuka]

Kind of shocked Osuka is alive though?

honestly same

[Invisibility]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Donempire

The more I sit on it, the more I don't like this. Bellaphant unfortunately didn't give us much to go on, but Don never actually voted Meuh, though he did express a willingness, with his actual vote going to Firebringer until the hammer.

In light of that, it is apparent to me that "I wanted Meuh, Firebringer wanted Black" is a bad faith argument, and even if this setup weren't designed so scum have limited information, Black was never a counterwagon to either Meuh or Firebringer, she was a counterwagon to Bingle, so the argument really only works on the most superficial level possible.

You might be correct in assessing FB couldn't have known meuh was scum, and in fact might have been hoping for a town!meuh flip, as it would make me look suspicious for pushing her, but you can't possibly reason that i would kill meuh after scumreading her to this extent. I also wouldn't have killed skygazer, because it makes no sense to kill a lurker in a game with one pr and where scum have the ability to find said pr.

I mean, why couldn't you just be lying about scumreading Meuh? Which is kinda my point with you trying to take credit for pushing her, but only ever voting Firebringer instead?

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Donempire

The more I sit on it, the more I don't like this. Bellaphant unfortunately didn't give us much to go on, but Don never actually voted Meuh, though he did express a willingness, with his actual vote going to Firebringer until the hammer.

In light of that, it is apparent to me that "I wanted Meuh, Firebringer wanted Black" is a bad faith argument, and even if this setup weren't designed so scum have limited information, Black was never a counterwagon to either Meuh or Firebringer, she was a counterwagon to Bingle, so the argument really only works on the most superficial level possible.

i think donempire is just stupid.
scum don't make these asine arguments of "ohh well obviously fire is scum because he townread a scum and pushed a townie". Scum would be smarter than that to know that they don't know the other team so me not reading meuh correctly obviously means nothing because even if im scum i have no way of knowing meuh was scum and if i did that means i killed her.

Which i think there is an argument that i would kill my heaviest townread in the game so i think that is a fair point to raise and argue but not the argument he is making here.

It's just as asinine an argument for Town to make though, but in this case it's like he's trying to take credit for something he didn't actually do.

[Ausuka]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

Probably because you thought she was town

I probably can't make a good big case, your pushes and reactions to things just feel less real than the other players in the game. I think the thing that stands out most to me is the push on merlyn where she's like saying who she wants to vote at eod and you're like, "also don't like Merlyn seemingly setting herself up to vote" it kinda reads like you decided you were going to push merlyn and then came up with reasons for it.

[Invisibility]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

like Meuh was working with me and townreading me and defending me and stuff. Why would scum!me, thinking Meuh is town, want to kill one of my only friends among the town, especially when pressure was starting to mount on me at the end of the day? If I did it to protect my partner then I still feel like there's better kills cuz basically everyone Meuh was suspicious of was also strong suspected by some other people. It only kinda makes sense if my partner is Donempire

[sheepsaysmeep]

invisibility who is mafia

[Invisibility]

idk

[Invisibility]

not Merlyn probably with how Meuh acted lol

[Ausuka]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

like Meuh was working with me and townreading me and defending me and stuff. Why would scum!me, thinking Meuh is town, want to kill one of my only friends among the town, especially when pressure was starting to mount on me at the end of the day? If I did it to protect my partner then I still feel like there's better kills cuz basically everyone Meuh was suspicious of was also strong suspected by some other people. It only kinda makes sense if my partner is Donempire

I think you are exaggerating the extent to which she was doing this

She said she wasn't interested in an invis wagon and voted for merlyn, but that's about it.

I also think that scum are on the whole more likely to prioritise killing people who are likely to be town rather than killing people who scumread them or whatever.

[Doctor Drew]

Lol, never would have guessed Meuh was scum from all the wagon hopping at the end of the day

[Invisibility]

I think you are exaggerating the extent to which she was doing this

she expressed a townread on me several times (161, 570, 914). She also found Merlyn's vote on me scummy at the beginning of the game (164). She voted Black and Merlyn with me even when I was otherwise getting flak for that (1003) which I would think scum!me would like to have her around to ease off some of the pressure from my Merlyn vote that I was bound to get on D2. Also she said me being a townread is one of the reasons she felt okay with a Merlyn wagon (914) and said she wasn't interested in a wagon on me with a big nope (1100) which I think are both pretty high accolades. I don't think I'm exaggerating.

I also think that scum are on the whole more likely to prioritise killing people who are likely to be town rather than killing people who scumread them or whatever.

prob but I would think scum would still want to keep people around who would help keep them alive

[Radical Rat]

Looking back, it seems like the main people Meuh didn't want to lim even toward the end would have been Invisibility, Firebringer, and Bulge.

Obviously the Bulge read was genuine, since that's where she shot, but it seems plausible that Meuh thought at least one of Invisibility/Firebringer was scum. She was explicitly okay with, and campaigning for, Drew and Bingle, so those were probably her townreads.

That comes with the caveat of Meuh not actually KNOWING of course, but I think we can treat this similarly to a Townie's legacy reads.

Unfortunately, I don't really think I agree much with those reads, except still leaning Town on Bingle, so I don't really have a point to make here like I thought I would when I started.

[Radical Rat]

Ausuka I don't think ever kills Meuh here, so I'm gonna double down on that townread.

[Radical Rat]

I'm thinking my pool today would be Drew/Sheep/Don/Umlaut.

Of those, I feel the best about Don or Sheep.

[Umlaut]

Looking back, it seems like the main people Meuh didn't want to lim even toward the end would have been Invisibility, Firebringer, and Bulge.

Obviously the Bulge read was genuine, since that's where she shot, but it seems plausible that Meuh thought at least one of Invisibility/Firebringer was scum. She was explicitly okay with, and campaigning for, Drew and Bingle, so those were probably her townreads.

That comes with the caveat of Meuh not actually KNOWING of course, but I think we can treat this similarly to a Townie's legacy reads.

Unfortunately, I don't really think I agree much with those reads, except still leaning Town on Bingle, so I don't really have a point to make here like I thought I would when I started.

This is town af, I was going to critique the entire premise of caring who Meuh thought was scum until I got to the last sentence.

[Umlaut]

What I mean is: if I were scum and that were the post I ended up writing, I would erase it and try again. Posting it anyway after it goes nowhere is what's town af.

[Umlaut]

Firebringer looks pretty town on this page too, both tonally in 1175 and taking the "Donempire is VI" position in 1178 and 1180.

Still like the "yeet Bingle" plan but could go back to Sheep today if there's the will for it.