Open 879: Fire and More Fire [game over]

[Datisi]

vote count 2.01

with 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-07-08 15:30:00).

yeet

Bingle [2]:

osuka, Umlaut

osuka [1]:

Bingle

Firebringer [1]:

Donempire

Donempire [1]:

Radical Rat

Invisibility [1]:

Ausuka

not voting [5]:

Invisibility, Doctor Drew, Merlyn, Firebringer, sheepsaysmeep

mod notes

this is a mod note.

flavour

[Firebringer]

Looking back, it seems like the main people Meuh didn't want to lim even toward the end would have been Invisibility, Firebringer, and Bulge.

Obviously the Bulge read was genuine, since that's where she shot, but it seems plausible that Meuh thought at least one of Invisibility/Firebringer was scum. She was explicitly okay with, and campaigning for, Drew and Bingle, so those were probably her townreads.

That comes with the caveat of Meuh not actually KNOWING of course, but I think we can treat this similarly to a Townie's legacy reads.

Unfortunately, I don't really think I agree much with those reads, except still leaning Town on Bingle, so I don't really have a point to make here like I thought I would when I started.

idk i don't think pushing any scum into your townreads when u don't know if they are scum but ur actually think their scum is a good strat in this game at all. Like if its ur teammate u have to lie about ur read, but for everyone else u can be at least a bit honest where u position them.

also think scum highlighting the most townie people in the game is good for 'signal' to other team of who is good to night kill.

i am actually surprised meuh didnt try to downplay being townread or try to look a bit scummier...though maybe im thinking too much 3d chess moves. Maybe she was trying who knows.

getting massively townread in this setup as scum isn't that good for u is what im saying unless ur very confident that other person is scum and u won't kill them.

Im rambling now

[Ausuka]

I still think sheep is town but am more wary of being pocketed than I was yesterday LMAO. Still i felt like he has vibed town and i have like understood where he's coming from generally, and Cook is a limbait player

I don't think I'd support a vote on Bingle either though? I scumread him initially but I feel like he's gotten townier over time

I probably need to go back and actually read osuka but he hasn't seemed very different to town osuka to me largely and getting into fights over ??? things, like the bingle thing, does feel like part of the osuka lifestyle

[Doctor Drew]

Meuh actually was very scummy at the end of the day, imo at least. To your point FB, that might have been intentional to try to avoid the NK.

[sheepsaysmeep]

doctor drew who is mafia

[Doctor Drew]

doctor drew who is mafia

I still feel confident there is one between the 'Sukas.....maybe even both.

[Bingle]

You're aware that neither you nor Fire would have been aware of Meuh being scum OR Black being Town, right?

Assuming you're including my bit here in the question: I think it's fairly obvious that I AT LEAST genuinely thought Meuh might be scum and ALSO I had no reason to shoot a slot that I could simply keep pushing due to her lack of push on me. There's just no reason for me to make that kill over kills that are much safer and less likely to flip a buddy, like say... Invis or FB, both of whom actually voted me for large parts of yesterday.

Similarly, Ausuka doesn't stand to benefit from killing townMeuh, because Meuh was defending Ausuka hard. Scum doesn't generally fancy shooting their own major supporters. Scumsuka wouldn't want to kill scumMeuh or townMeuh, so Scumsuka likely doesn't exist.

SkyG being the kill makes less sense because no one was townreading her and she wasn't pushing anyone. That would be a fucking awful shot.

[Bingle]

Kind of shocked Osuka is alive though?

Why?

[Bingle]

it's the fact that

you admit that they have valid reasons to want to get rid of you and you do NOTHING to address any of their points

. instead, you seem to satisfy yourself with "oh well i guess fair enough". that's ridiculous regardless of your alignment - either that's a huge gamble as scum (one that you don't need to take d1), or it's just piss poor town play.

It's cool how this is literally not true. Like... Not only not true, but requires reading literally 0% of the post you're calling out for that to be your issue with it. Wanna try again without stuffing your mouth full of cowpies first?

Alright:

First, wagon on me:

Ausuka - Primarily, voting me as

OMGUS

. I still think Ausuka isn't particularly towny, but generally her placement on my wagon isn't a really scummy one.
Firebringer - Voting me for a meta case

(and a bad one)

. His case on me is that I'm not doing a thing that's NAI for me, I'm doing a thing that's NAI for me, and that I'm doing a thing that he claims isn't NAI for me based on a game he was the backup mod for, but which is notably NAI for me. I'm not really a player who can be caught via 'meta case'. Regardless, I believe that Firebringer believes the case, which makes him a fairly strong town read.
The Bulge - Apparently, the main thrust of Bulge's scum read on me was my leading question at Ausuka. I had thought there was a significant portion to do with the mech speak accusation, but on reread it does seem very reasonable that that callout was nonspecific and not actually aimed at me.

Bulge's accusation

that it's ridiculous I would think so is, imo,

silly

, since his clarification that it wasn't actually about mechspeak was directly quoting a post about people specifically calling me out for mechspeak. The implication there, to me, was that the 388 was in fact singling me out. I don't really think that is unreasonable. Of the people voting me, I think this is the worst vote, but I don't particularly think it makes Bulge scum.
Invisibility - Vizzy's mostly been

sheeping bad cases

on me, but the way the way she's doing it doesn't scream scum to me.


Of these 4 I think there is no way there's a pair of scum and that it's unlikely that there are two different scumteams represented. Generally, despite the shit quality of each of the reads, I think they are more likely than not to actually be things the people behind them think. I vaguely agree that the wagon on me is roughly town driven.

at mcdonald’s drive thru, can’t be bothered to do quite surgery.

the justifications you have for your wagon are complete trash. omgus is the one real reason you have there and even that’s sort of weak. for the other 3, you just say they’re bad without literally any other context

try again

So, the thing I didn't get to respond to because the thread was locked:

This is osuka, being fake as fuck. The entire interaction, for reference went something like this:

Bingle: "Here are reasons behind everyone voting me actually being town."
Osuka: "Bingle doesn't have any reasons why everyone voting him are town in this post, so clearly he's scum."
Bingle: "What the literal fuck are you talking about, that post is literally the reasons people gave to vote me and why they are both shit and probably come from town. Look, I'll capitalize the bits that are actually me calling out why they're shit."
Osuka: "Bingle didn't share the reasons of the people voting him."

Like, not only is what he's saying not fucking true, it's basically the exact opposite of the actual content of the post.

[Firebringer]

i don't see why you would kill me after black flip Bingle
or invisibility

both seem like bad kill targets

idk doing the whole who would kill who has never been a good way to clear or solve anyone so i think this discussion pointless.

Also osuka has been townread by almost everyone excluding yourself.

[Doctor Drew]

i don't see why you would kill me after black flip Bingle
or invisibility

both seem like bad kill targets

idk doing the whole who would kill who has never been a good way to clear or solve anyone so i think this discussion pointless.

Also osuka has been townread by almost everyone excluding yourself.

[osuka]

i'm too tired to argue with bingle over shit that i have already explained so for the time being i'll just say you're wrong, you know why you're wrong, i've explained why you're wrong, you should go back to the post where i did all of that and read it until some of that information eventually makes its way to your brain

[osuka]

like you clearly completely missed the entire explanation i had to painstakingly write after realizing that you're completely incapable of nuance, so i decided to remove nuance and we're still exactly where we started

[osuka]

i can go back to using short sentences and small words if that helps at all

[osuka]

i could also go back and point out exactly why most of the """reasons""" you wrote down on that original post of yours are either wrong or just straight up nonsense, but i again can't really be bothered to do that since it's obvious that you're either not trying to understand or incapable of it, so you know fuck it

[osuka]

like at this point i'm even struggling to come up with a scenario in which scum plays the game like that. if bingle is town then that's pretty trash town play, but if he's scum then that's somehow even worse. i dont know what the fuck is happening

[osuka]

i'm almost willing to look elsewhere d2 based solely off of the fact that i can't get myself to believe scum would play THIS poorly

[Doctor Drew]

i'm too tired to argue with bingle over shit that i have already explained so for the time being i'll just say you're wrong, you know why you're wrong, i've explained why you're wrong, you should go back to the post where i did all of that and read it until some of that information eventually makes its way to your brain

Then proceeds to post more hoping to encite more arguments with Bingle.

[Merlyn]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

like Meuh was working with me and townreading me and defending me and stuff. Why would scum!me, thinking Meuh is town, want to kill one of my only friends among the town, especially when pressure was starting to mount on me at the end of the day? If I did it to protect my partner then I still feel like there's better kills cuz basically everyone Meuh was suspicious of was also strong suspected by some other people. It only kinda makes sense if my partner is Donempire

But you (and anyone) could have killed sky, so how is this a good defense?

[Doctor Drew]

i'm almost willing to look elsewhere d2 based solely off of the fact that i can't get myself to believe scum would play THIS poorly

This especially makes George Bailey roll over in his grave.

[Merlyn]

Lol, never would have guessed Meuh was scum from all the wagon hopping at the end of the day

Don't remember your vote reflecting that bit of wisdom my dear doctor

[Doctor Drew]

Lol, never would have guessed Meuh was scum from all the wagon hopping at the end of the day

Don't remember your vote reflecting that bit of wisdom my dear doctor

Well I was dealing with a bit of self preservation, admittedly.....but I don't think there was a big wave of support to lim Meuh yesterday, even after I posted the quotes of them vote hopping.

Hindsight and all, but after their flip it did seem pretty obvious in retrospect.

[Doctor Drew]

Also

VOTE: osuka

[Invisibility]

I didn't expect Meuh to be scum lol

I believe u

VOTE: invisibility

why would I shoot Meuh

like Meuh was working with me and townreading me and defending me and stuff. Why would scum!me, thinking Meuh is town, want to kill one of my only friends among the town, especially when pressure was starting to mount on me at the end of the day? If I did it to protect my partner then I still feel like there's better kills cuz basically everyone Meuh was suspicious of was also strong suspected by some other people. It only kinda makes sense if my partner is Donempire

But you (and anyone) could have killed sky, so how is this a good defense?

I don't think anyone would have shot Sky

[Radical Rat]

You're aware that neither you nor Fire would have been aware of Meuh being scum OR Black being Town, right?

Assuming you're including my bit here in the question: I think it's fairly obvious that I AT LEAST genuinely thought Meuh might be scum and ALSO I had no reason to shoot a slot that I could simply keep pushing due to her lack of push on me. There's just no reason for me to make that kill over kills that are much safer and less likely to flip a buddy, like say... Invis or FB, both of whom actually voted me for large parts of yesterday.

Similarly, Ausuka doesn't stand to benefit from killing townMeuh, because Meuh was defending Ausuka hard. Scum doesn't generally fancy shooting their own major supporters. Scumsuka wouldn't want to kill scumMeuh or townMeuh, so Scumsuka likely doesn't exist.

SkyG being the kill makes less sense because no one was townreading her and she wasn't pushing anyone. That would be a fucking awful shot.

No, I just meant Don's bit. I agree that it's unlikely you or Ausuka would have shot Meuh in these circumstances, and while theoretically anybody could have shot Skygazer, I think scum would have rather kept them around, so I agree Meuh was likely the target.