Open 106 - Impotence Mafia (Game Over!) before 714

[Caboose]

/confirm

[Caboose]

Soo I just noticed. We have to catch the mafia, right? Well they are gonna try to play like the town. So how do we know who is in the mafia?

That's what we will hope to find out.

Anyway, all other random votes are irrelevent as we will by lynching StrangerCoug today.

Vote: StrangerCoug

[Caboose]

Actually, I'm making it my thing to claim serial killer in any massclaim situations from now on.

Well, should I start making it my thing to quote my role PM in LYLO?

I know there are joke votes and random voting but what is with this comment.

Yes, it was a joke. I'm trying to make my ego look comically big.

Now, looking at this claim thing:

1) We force the mafia to claim before they have a strategy.

I would think that the mafia would obviously claim non-vig. I don't think that they would expose themselves to a counter claim this early. I think it's pretty weird that you think that they would. And don't bring up WIFOM either. It's just something that only incompetant scum would do.

2) The mafia don’t learn the identity of our powerroles. (The real vig is masked in 2 “vanillas”, the roleblocker is masked by 5 vanillas.)

So, let me get this straight. You want to out the three possible people that could be the vig so that the mafia could just kill them off/roleblock them one by one?
I want to keep our vigilantes in cover for now because it's a really powerful role and it will end up helping us if we get down to the endgame.

That gives the mafia rb 1 our of 3 changes to stop the vig. I don't think that is smart.

Precisely.

I'm officially making my random vote a real vote for threatening to vote another player.

Is that really a scumtell?

Pros:
-This prevents the PTRB from targeting Vigilantes
-Three people are confirmed town, which slightly tips the scale in favor of Town

This is true, but these are very short term benefits.

While I don't think that Emp's threatening to vote Nat is scummy, I find it really odd that he would even begin to think that a vig claim this early on would be a good idea.

Unvote
Vote: EmpTyger

Massclaim should be our last resort, not our first.

[Caboose]

Another thing to add - if the Three vigs all claim, there's only a 2/3 chance that the town will get one shot off, and a 1/3rds chance they will get none off. If the three vigs claim, The Mafia will Kill one off and roleblock another. If a Shot goes off from the town that night, the Mafia will roleblock the other living Vig and kill them, since the one they blocked first obviously didn't make the shot.

Good point.

I suggest now that we abandon the math. I do enough math in RL, I didn't sign up to work out probability, I signed up for a game of mafia.

[Caboose]

I, too, support a mass-vig claim.

Why?

[Caboose]

Unvote

I can see Emp's reasoning behind a vig claim. It would narrow the list to 9 suspects who the RB can investigate/block.
It's still not a good idea in the long run, but Emp proposing it isn't scummy.

Unvote, Vote Appassionata.

Reason, please?

This is an open setup. What’s your reasoning here? Why shouldn’t a massclaim be considered?

I'm just not a fan of massclaim in general. It kind of takes the fun and skill out of the game.

Something that I find odd:

Stranger, any particular reason for the double FOS while you have a vote available to be cast?

Not sure which one's really scummier than the other, but I'm leaning EmpTyger at the moment.

...Ah, what the hell. Vote: EmpTyger again.

So, you only place a vote right

after

someone calls you down on it? That's kind of weird to me and it kind of looks like scum cracking under pressure. Plus, the vote looks hastily placed.

Vote: StrangerCoug

[Caboose]

I didn't want to revote EmpTyger so soon after unvoting him, but given my vote on him was for the ultimatum against Natirasha and he explained why he felt it necessary, I removed my vote. I had nothing new to contribute to his massclaim idea, which is why I didn't originally addressed it. Yes, I revoted in response to mrfixij, but that was because I realized that I should have taken his massclaim suggestion into account before unvoting, which I failed to do.

Why is Emp's suggestion of vig claim scummy?

[Caboose]

I didn't want to revote EmpTyger so soon after unvoting him, but given my vote on him was for the ultimatum against Natirasha and he explained why he felt it necessary, I removed my vote. I had nothing new to contribute to his massclaim idea, which is why I didn't originally addressed it. Yes, I revoted in response to mrfixij, but that was because I realized that I should have taken his massclaim suggestion into account before unvoting, which I failed to do.

Why is Emp's suggestion of vig claim scummy?

I answered this already. Post #67.

True, Emp's idea is a bad idea in the end. However, it's not completely without pros to it. It gives the Town RB 2 nights to poke around, possibly stop a kill and investigate at the same time, which could end up being more valueable than the vig kill.
You explained why Emp's idea is a

bad

one. Now, convince me that it's a

scummy

one.


-----

Vote Count:

ZazieR

(1) - yorgi

mrfixij

(0)

chenhsi

(1) - EmpTyger

yorgi

(0)

EmpTyger

(2) - chenhsi, StrangerCoug

afatchic

(0)

BlondeSoWut

(2) - ZazieR, Appassionata

StrangerCoug

(1) - Caboose

Appassionata

(1) - BlondeSoWut

Zakeri

(0)

Caboose

(1) - mrfixij

Natirasha

(2) - afatchic, Zakeri

Not voting

(1) - Natirasha

With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.

[Caboose]

So you don't think it's possible for townies to have bad ideas?

[Caboose]

Have you ever said something that seemed like a good idea at the time, but it really turns out to be a bad one? And have you done so as town?

[Caboose]

I don't get this Nat wagon. I don't think he's been particularly useless this game.

Vote: Natirasha For claiming NK-Immune GF.

Joke vote. I'll write this off as usual.

Actually, I'm making it my thing to claim serial killer in any massclaim situations from now on.

Useless post.

EmpTyger, I understand you hate self voting, me, and jokeclaiming, but are you serious.

I, too, support a mass-vig claim.

Actually expresses his opinion on the mass claim. Not useless.

Have you known me to ever not support a claim?

Useless.

EmpTyger, you are voting someone for something they haven't done. I've had 4 posts in this game. One, of course, is my self-vote which I do in every game. The second and third are content. This is my fourth. So, can you present to me some of this "anti-town behavior"?

Additionally, I find your "We're under strict deadline" speech to be a false dilemma. We have a month. That's more than enough time to get a lynch in a open game. Heck, I've finished open games in half that time.

unvote, vote: Emptyger as a matter of principle.

Has content, not useless.

If we have 4 claimed vigs, one is scum.
If we have 3 claimed vigs, the roleblocker acts as a doc-cop to the other 9 players.
If we have more than 4 claimed vigs, we essentially win the game because the mafia is retarded.

Lays out scenarios.

There's more posts that I don't have time to lay out right now, but I'll get to that later.

[Caboose]

I thought I said Nat was helpless, not useless.

I don't think Nat has been anti-town today thus far.

[Caboose]

Vote: EmpTyger. Why don't I have stripes like you?

Joke vote, will write this off.

Soo I just noticed. We have to catch the mafia, right? Well they are gonna try to play like the town. So how do we know who is in the mafia?

That's what we will hope to find out.

Anyway, all other random votes are irrelevent as we will by lynching StrangerCoug today.

Vote: StrangerCoug

I know there are joke votes and random voting but what is with this comment.

Oh I know he's just kidding with me xD

Also do we really need to confuse people with fake claiming scum roles Nat?

Not to meta-defend him, but keep in mind that Natirasha acts anti-town in general. He has admitted to being the serial killer in at least one game, though.

Why did you call Nat anti-town in this post? I thought that the scumclaim by Nat was clearly a joke.

Hence "at least one"—the one game I played with you where you did so and actually were the serial killer.

Not much here. Factual statement.

I'm officially making my random vote a real vote for threatening to vote another player.

Voting for EmpTyger for something that's not a scumtell.
+scumpoints

Some people consider it so, and knowing Natirasha the way EmpTyger's post is worded rubs me the wrong way. (EmpTyger may not be familiar with Natirasha's meta, but seriously, why give another player an ultimatum?) The massclaim issue is another thing against Emp, and I don't like the idea of it at this stage of the game.

EmpTyger was trying to get Nat to not be useless, and you vote him for it? I don't get that. How is offering an ultimatum to get someone to stop acting anti-town scummy? And the fact that you're voting Nat yourself for being useless just adds to the hypocrisy here.
+more scumpoints

I don't think unhelpful players should be tolerated, but I don't like the concept of an ultimatum in Mafia either. I buy your defense for the ultimatum, however, so I will unvote you. I'll look at reactions when I check on my other games.

I don't see what your hang up is over Emp's threat. He's pretty much doing what you're doing now, which is basically saying "Be helpful or be lynched."
I don't like the unvote, either. You tried to make a crap case on Emp and then you backed off when you saw that it would blow up in your face.
+even more scumpoints

OK, looking at this EmpTyger/Natirasha deal again, I'm still looking at EmpTyger, but for the massclaim suggestion instead of the ultimatum. As I said, I see why EmpTyger's is going after Natirasha, and I'm not liking Nat either. I'm pretty sure at least one of these two people is scum at this point, but page 3 is too early to say anything definitive.

FoS: Natirasha and EmpTyger

Don't know why you FoS'ed Nat since he didn't do anything particularly scummy. This post also suggests fencesitting which = more scumpoints.

Any particular reason? We're clearly out of random voting.

Nothing anti-town in this post.

Not sure which one's really scummier than the other, but I'm leaning EmpTyger at the moment.

...Ah, what the hell. Vote: EmpTyger again.

This comes after a mrfixij post asking why SC doesn't have a vote on either Nat or Emp. Knee-jerk reaction? This post looks forced.

When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about. I know that I could be completely wrong, and I may find people more suspicious than you two, but that's my current stance.

It's already been addressed, so I didn't talk about it, but since you asked so nicely, I will: A vig massclaim supports the Mafia more than the town. To massclaim vig/not vig means that it takes at most two nights to completely shut down the vig. The first night, the mafia roleblocks one claimed vig and kills another. If the town gets a nightkill, the roleblocked vig has to be one of the two shooting blanks, so the best roleblocking target is the vig that the Mafia didn't do anything to the previous night.

Most people seem to be going pro-town about it.

You explain how Emp's idea is a bad one very well. However, you fail to explain how Emp's idea is scummy. Still waiting for case on Nat from you at this point.

I didn't want to revote EmpTyger so soon after unvoting him, but given my vote on him was for the ultimatum against Natirasha and he explained why he felt it necessary, I removed my vote. I had nothing new to contribute to his massclaim idea, which is why I didn't originally addressed it. Yes, I revoted in response to mrfixij, but that was because I realized that I should have taken his massclaim suggestion into account before unvoting, which I failed to do.

So still. Why is Emp's idea scummy?

I answered this already. Post #67.

Again, you explained why it was

bad

. You didn't explain why it was scummy.

Anything that helps the Mafia more than the town is scummy in my eyes, thus the idea is scummy in my eyes.

So it's impossible for townies to have bad ideas that will help scum in the end without the townie realizing it?

It's very possible for townies to have bad ideas. Miserable ideas, even. But EmpTyger admitted that he didn't think it through all the way before bringing it up, and he should have thought it through all the way.

Not thinking off all possibilities before bring up an idea =/= scummy

I believe so on both counts, but the one example I can think of off the top of my head is unfortunately ongoing. Your question convinces enough for me to go ahead and unvote EmpKing, however.

Natirasha's general anti-town behavior is still helping nobody, so vote: Natirasha.

You jump off of Emp and go onto Nat, still with no explanation as to all this anti-town behavior Nat is showing.

I thought I said Nat was helpless, not useless.

WHY?

[Caboose]

I implied that being anti-town was his meta. Not that he was really antitown in this game yet.

And that's worthy of a vote because...
I'm personally willing to give Nat a chance.

I'd explain my experience with this, but it's in an ongoing game. But depending on the circumstances, it can be a scumtell.

I will have to disagree with you on that.

I think EmpTyger and Natirasha are scummy independent of each other. Unlike EmpTyger, I never said anything along the lines of "stop doing this unless you want me to vote you". My first vote on EmpTyger was for the threat itself, not the reasons thereof which was the basis of my unvote. I felt was right for

EmpTyger to call Natirasha out for his actions

. I did not feel it was right, however, for

EmpTyger to give Natirasha an ultimatum

. Clear?

What does it matter that Emp gave Nat an ultimatum?

My later posts reflect my understanding of why Emp did what he did. I do not see myself as a hypocrite regarding this given I dropped the ultimatum case when I started pressuring Natirasha.

So wait a second. Giving ultimatums is a scumtell, and it's basically what you're doing.
What's your current stance on ultimatums being a scumtell?

It's still more pro-town to think things completely through than not.

So the person who deserves your vote has the most scumpoints or the least townpoints?

Again, I don't like rehashing stuff already said. You yourself have said that some of his posts are useless. Not all of them, but I find fluff posts like those you brought up scummy.

Is it possible

not

to have a few fluff posts in a game?

Has Natirasha contributed to scumhunting worth squat yet, for example?

Go down the list of players and tell me the people who have contributed to scumhunting worth a "squat" then, according to your judgement.

[Caboose]

It doesn't and it never has. It mattered that Emp gave an ultimatum period. Why is this still unclear?

So the "24-hour" thing in Emp's ultimatum was the scumtell?
I can't read your mind SC.

Show me where I personally am giving another player an ultimatum.

You putting your vote is an implicit ultimatum, pretty much saying "Scumhunt or die." I fail to see how Emp's making his ultimatum

explicit

is a scumtell.

To be grammatically correct, the fewest townpoints pretty much. I generally equate anti-town with scummy unless otherwise is obvious.

Personally, scummy gets my vote over unhelpful.

Yes, whether I like them or not.

What's random voting for, then?

Now, as to Nat:

EmpTyger, I understand you hate self voting, me, and jokeclaiming, but are you serious.

I, too, support a mass-vig claim.

Not a useless post. He expresses support for vig-claim and calls out Emp for the ultimatum. While not a scumtell, this post isn't useless.

EmpTyger, you are voting someone for something they haven't done. I've had 4 posts in this game. One, of course, is my self-vote which I do in every game. The second and third are content. This is my fourth. So, can you present to me some of this "anti-town behavior"?

Additionally, I find your "We're under strict deadline" speech to be a false dilemma. We have a month. That's more than enough time to get a lynch in a open game. Heck, I've finished open games in half that time.

unvote, vote: Emptyger as a matter of principle.

Again, not useless. Asks about Emp's reasons and intention of voting. However, he does fumble around with his own reasons to vote Emp, which is quite suspicious.

[Caboose]

The 24 hour thing does have to do with my interpreting it as scummy, yes.

It's still not a scumtell. But it is really scummy that you're jumping on Emp for something that is not a scumtell. Plus the fact that you fencesit between Emp and Nat, plus the fact that you vote hop whenever prompted to do so is scummy.

...but lying about the reasoning for a vote seems like it would be squarely on the side of antitown. How don't you think so?

Nat's post admitting that he was lying about his vote came

after

my post that you quoted. I do think that Nat's lying about his reason is anti-town, however, I failed to notice this post before.

You caught me on the not paying attention. I coulda swore you vote me though...

On the lying about my reason, the principle was you were voting me, I suppose.

[Caboose]

Vigilantes are power roles. The benefit to the Mafia is that they'll eventually find out who the vig is by process of elimination. The odds of the town roleblocker hitting the Mafia roleblocker isn't very high mathematically, and I fear that the vig shooting real bullets will be found and even possibly dead before the town RB locates the Mafia RB. Which is why the consensus is that your idea is bad. The Mafia want the actual vig dead before the Mafia RB is blocked himself, do they not?

Why is this part of your "case" on Emp? We've agreed that it's a bad idea, but I contend that it's not scummy. It

does

have pros and I don't believe that it's a scum tell that Emp threw that idea out.

The pushy ultimatum. Again, being pushy is scummy.

No, it's not. EmpTyger's ultimatum doesn't give me any kind of scum vibes, and it now sounds like you're pulling something out of your rear end.

[Caboose]

Also, how is the idea of a "mass-claim" scummy, it has it's logical parts.

It benefits the Mafia more than the town.

Seriously, that's all you got?
Vote stands.

-----

Vote Count:

ZazieR

(0)

mrfixij

(0)

chenhsi

(1) - EmpTyger

yorgi

(0)

EmpTyger

(1) - chenhsi

afatchic

(0)

BlondeSoWut

(2) - ZazieR, Appassionata

StrangerCoug

(3) - Caboose, yorgi, Natirasha

Appassionata

(1) - BlondeSoWut

Zakeri

(1) - mrfixij

Caboose

(0)

Natirasha

(3) - afatchic, Zakeri, StrangerCoug

Not voting

(0)

With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.

Prodding afatchic.

[Caboose]

Well, good luck on finals, everyone.

Um...how? You realize there is only one scum faction, right? Vote: SC Honestly, your case is riddles with holes, and you seem to defend me while saying I'm scum while defending EmpTyger and saying he's scum.

This is a really valid point.

Questions:

@BSW

: Why is your vote on Appassionata?

@Appassionata

: Why is your vote on BSW?

@Zakeri and afatchic

: What are your current stances on Nat?

[Caboose]

Heyy! I'm smarder than you guys thinkk!

BSW, are you using the "hunt and peck" system of typing or are you touch typing?

Something

is

wrong with BSW's arguement.
More on that tomorrow.

[Caboose]

I swear I think Apass is in the mafia! Hes doing exactly wut I would if I was in the mafia.

And if hes in the mafia so is Yorgi. He doesnt talk about Yorgi at all. He wants town peoples lynched. Hes not gunna waste his time on the other mafia peoples.

The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).

Oh hey, I forgot about this game.

Great, anything to add.

Nothing SC has said in recent history has changed my mind on him.

[Caboose]

Next Caboose

And don't bring up WIFOM either. It's just something that only incompetant scum would do.

Only scum WIFOM? Is that so?

Note that the quote is taken completely out of context. When I said "it's just something that incompetant scum would do" I was refering to the question of whether scum would fakeclaim vig in a mass claim.

[Caboose]

The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence.

No, it's your job to prove their guilt, it's not their job to prove their innocence. Thus far, you haven't done so, calling both Emp and Nat out on non-scum tells. There's really no way to prove that you are innocent without quoting your role PM.

[Caboose]

The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).

Apass isn't talking about anyone from what I read. Conclusion is invalid please try again.

I'm not sure where the heck Blond came up with this theory but it's based on nothing at all. I don't like Caboose following crap logic he's a better player then that. I don't know Blond and it could be newbie who is still learning, but seriously learn to scum hunt and come up with actually cases not oh let me point to someone and say they are scum with player X because they aren't talking about each other. I'm not the only one not mentioned.

unvote
vote: Caboose

Crap logic for crap reason. Protecting someone or looking for an easy lynch Caboose. Scum either way.

Ummmm...
WTF?

I'm saying that I disagreed w/ BSW's logic.

[Caboose]

I think you are disagreeing with her based on partners. But you are not stating well her case on Apos is nothing. She is linking people and you are like well I can't agree because others aren't talking with Apos, but it seems weak. Like sure Apos can be scum but no question of why. Like I said Blond may be a newb but that doesnt' mean not scum.

Do what?
I never tried to play the newbie card for BSW.
I also never tried to put together a case, I was trying to prove how BSW's was weak.

[Caboose]

Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?

Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.

That’s *still* not WIFOM.

It *still* makes absolutely no claim about how mafia would not act.

Prove that, to be guilty of WIFOM, you must make a claim as to how mafia would not act as opposed to how they would act. Last time I checked, it worked either way.

BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.

And, for good measure, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using your logic?

Natirasha's just plain anti-town. BlondeSoWut is painting two people in a scummy light based on how he claims he would be playing as Mafia.
<snip>

And, once again, how is Natirasha not strictly worse than BSW using that logic?

How is my answer not an appropriate response?

[Caboose]

Hmmm...
Ignore that last post.

BSW made 2 observation:
1) She suspects Appassionata is mafia because <reason1>.
2) If Appassionata is mafia, then she suspects yorgi too, because <reason2>.

You argue that BSW is mafia because <reason2> is insubstantial in proving <statement1>. Which, compared to some of your more egregious illogical attacks this game, almost isn’t even worth attacking.

<reason1> is insubstantial in the first place.

Not anymore insubstantial than your "case" on Emp.

[Caboose]

As a side note, I think it's kind of ironic that I don't want to waste my time and energy on EmpTyger either.

Why are you being so dismissive?

[Caboose]

And, for those still thinking your responses legit:

Why do you refer to BSW as “he”?

Because I'm paying more attention to my case on her than her gender.
<snip>

My next suspect is Zakeri:
However she hasn’t really posted much so I can’t really post much against her. But what I don’t like is her excuse to jump onto Natirasha. She uses the excuse because she has said she would be no help, which for multiple reasons is wrong.

Natirasha is male.
<snip>

Has nothing to do with SC's arguments.

FoS: EmpTyger

[Caboose]

Caboose:
Do you feel SC’s actions towards Natirasha have been consistent with how he has described his attitude towards Natirasha?

I don't think that question is relevant considering that his "case" on Nat consists of nothing but BS. His actions have been nothing, he doesn't have a vote on anyone. So, I guess the answer to your question is no. His failure to place a vote on Nat is inconsistant with is "suspicion" of Nat.

My question is: Why don't SC or xolelf have a vote on anyone yet?

[Caboose]

Caboose:

I don't think that question is relevant considering that his "case" on Nat consists of nothing but BS. His actions have been nothing, he doesn't have a vote on anyone. So, I guess the answer to your question is no. His failure to place a vote on Nat is inconsistant with is "suspicion" of Nat.

So, then why did you FoS me in [237] for pointing out evidence to that inconsistency?

SC's crap attacks are relevant. The whole gender thing isn't.

What do you mean "yet" with regard to me? I had a vote on EmpTyger, then EmpTyger again, then BlondeSoWut. I explained why I pulled my BSW vote and leaving it idle.

"Yet" I meant to apply to xolelf.
Votes left idle are useless. I think they always need to be on someone. There's no reason not to have a vote out at this point, other than to jump onto the most momentous wagon.

[Caboose]

alright...my computer has been fixed for the most part...at least i can post now

i read through things to see what i missed but i'm not entirely sure about anything right now. As my computer is fixed i will be getting back into the swing of the game within the next few days.
But if people could prompt me as to what you want me to give my opinion on, i would be rather grateful..thank you so much

I don't really care what you look at, as long as you form an opinion on someone and place a vote.
Fencesitting at this point is not going to help anyone.

In other news, SC just racked up some more scumpoints with his last post.

[Caboose]

Caboose:

<snip>
SC's crap attacks are relevant. The whole gender thing isn't.

You seem remarkably insistent that SC has not slipped up regarding who a partner of his might be, despite thinking that SC is mafia. What do you think about Natirasha/SC? About BSW/SC?

Nat/SC - Possible, but since Nat suddenly disappeared, he kind of dropped off my radar.
SC/BSW - Didn't think about this one. What makes you think of this scumpair?

<snip>
Votes left idle are useless. I think they always need to be on someone. There's no reason not to have a vote out at this point, other than to jump onto the most momentous wagon.

Okay, but how is chenhsi’s not just as useless and opportunistic?

chenhsi also dropped off the radar when he stopped posting. He another one that I have a "no read" on.

[Caboose]

Waiting for claim...

[Caboose]

SC is still scum.

[Caboose]

I would like to remind everyone that tomorrow is deadline and we still need to lynch someone or we go into the night with a no lynch.

And SC is still scum.

[Caboose]

magisterrain was the hammer.

If SC flips scum, I'll be about 90% confident that BSW is scum as well.

[Caboose]

Mod: As RL has cleared up for me, I would like to request to replace myself.

Accepted. Caboose replaces Caboose. And since xofelf is back as well, I am a happy mod.

[Caboose]

crywolf is scum.

Vote: crywolf

[Caboose]

Welcome back Caboose...


now...is there any reasoning behind your saying crywolf is scum? or are we just supposed to take your word for it without any explanation whatsoever?

Just wondering *sheepish grin*

Her interaction with BSW screams bussing to me.

[Caboose]

That (Bolded above) makes no freakin' sense. The real vig is dead.

Vote:BlondeSoWut

Doesn't mention BSW's behavior whatsoever. First sentence is just a BS sentence to make the post seem like it has more content than it really does.

"Might not be mafia"

Yet you're voting him??

My vote stays.

BSW says she unvoted because she has a reasonable doubt that Xtoxm is scum. That's not a scumtell. This looks like a contrived justification for staying on a bandwagon.

[Caboose]

Reading back through, I take back what I said about crywolf bussing.
But crywolf is still scum; her jump onto the BSW bandwagon is akward and looks like scum taking advantage of a quick bandwagon.

I'm with yorgi on Appass' claim; it looks really weird that you targetted the vig and the vig

happened

to die that night.

[Caboose]

I think now would be a good time for all the blanks to step forward.

[Caboose]

Hang on a sec Caboose...did you read what you just wrote? How would having the blank vigs step forward help? because if you did that wouldn't it make it a hell of a lot easier for the mafia to figure out the rest of the roles? or am i just crazy here?

The real vig is already dead, so there's nothing to lose.
Also, we can see if Apass is lying or not.

[Caboose]

ah but you see, there's a major flaw in your plan....who says that someone can't claim Blank just to get Apass lynched?

Then we lynch the other person.

[Caboose]

EBWOP: and besides there still IS the roleblocker remember...yes they're hidden by 5 vanillas but if you eliminate the blanks from being unknown, than that gives the mafia a higher statistical chance of getting them.

True, but that also increases the chances of the town having a good lynch.

Reading back through mrfixij's posts...

[Caboose]

And she [yorgi] really seemed to get panicked by Caboose accusing Appassionata.

Please show me where this occured.

Emp's case on magis looks solid, but I would like to hear more from crywolf.

[Caboose]

/no vig

Also, read the sig and pay attention.

[Caboose]

Oh yeah, and crywolf is still scum with all this info instead of analysis crap in her past few posts.

-----

Vote Count:

xofelf

(0)

magisterrain

(0)

yorgi

(1) - Xtoxm

EmpTyger

(0)

BlondeSoWut

(3) - crywolf20084, Appassionata, EmpTyger

Appassionata

(0)

Xtoxm

(0)

Caboose

(0)

crywolf20084

(3) - BlondeSoWut, magisterrain, Caboose

Not voting

(2) - xofelf, yorgi

With 9 players alive, 5 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is January 31st.

[Caboose]

Why hasn't crywolf been lynched yet?

[Caboose]

ok, im lookin right now at xofelf for (in her mind) hammering (though it was really l-1...i know we had repeatedly asked crywolf to speak up, but did you not consider letting her feel the pressure of being at l-1/l-2 at all and possibly coming forward with a claim?

Dropping a well-reasoned hammer is NOT a scumtell.

[Caboose]

i dint say it was...problem was, xofelf's vote wasnt exactly well reasoned. it mostly relied on other people's arguments.

Because Caboose...she needs two more votes....actually..she needs one more

Vote crywolf

I don't like how time and time again you have avoided answering legitimate questions

.

Looks well-reasoned enough to me.
And before anyone says I'm chainsaw defending, I don't think xolelf is cleared by this.

are you not at all upset by the fact that you helped lynch the roleblocker?

It's not my fault that crywolf acted scummy.

i think it is reasonable to look at everyone on her wagon as a potential scum candidate.

I think it is reasonable to look at

everyone

as a potential scum candidate (maybe except for Xtomx). I don't know why you're trying to throw around suspicions like this. Being wrong is also NOT a scumtell.

[Caboose]

Unless someone hasn't CC, Xtomx is the other blank.

[Caboose]

@ EmpTyger:
magis is rising on my scumdar, mostly because of his scapegoating of xolelf and trying to throw suspicions around for a non-scumtell.

[Caboose]

@ EmpTyger:
magis is rising on my scumdar, mostly because of his scapegoating of xolelf and trying to throw suspicions around for a non-scumtell.

you didnt listen to me earlier. i didn't say what xofelf did was a scumtell. i also never 'threw blame around'.
i said i was 'looking' at xofelf because of her vote. i simply wanted to see what she had to say about it. i think thats perfectly reasonable given the circumstances.

in fact, since you

also were on the bandwagon against crywolf

and because of your trying to throw suspicion on me for rather weak reasons, i am now 'looking' at you.

Semantics, semantics.
Being on the crywolf wagon is NOT a scumtell or a "look"tell.

But, you could be onto something in the fact that the crywolf wagon could have been driven by scumbuddy of BSW.

[Caboose]

there's not much to any of caboose's posts from day 2. he doesn't really say much, spending most of his time suspecting different people, but very little time actually developing any kind of case.

You don't need a postzilla to develop a case.
For CW, I specifically spotted the info-instead-of-analysis tell and her noncooperation.
For SC, I outlined a case in an earlier post.

why would town ever try to state something so matter of factly? a townie would never be able to say 'x IS scum' why were you so sure? i agree its not a scumtell to be wrong. but why were you so sure when both times you were dead wrong?

That's how I play.

-----

Vote Count:

xofelf

(0)

magisterrain

(1) - BlondeSoWut

yorgi

(1) - Xtoxm

EmpTyger

(0)

BlondeSoWut

(1) - EmpTyger

Xtoxm

(0)

Caboose

(0)

Not voting

(4) - xofelf, magisterrain, yorgi, Caboose

With 7 players alive, 4 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 3 is February 16th.

[Caboose]

/bump

We require more Yorgi and xolelf.

[Caboose]

well...first off it's xofelf(honestly first my gender, then my name...when are you guys ever gonna get it right)

Sorry about that.

Caboose, your method of play doesn't seem to help anybody. You make a statement and you don't back it up with anything other than, "well i say so and if you look at the facts(which i'm not gonna point out) it's blatantly obvious" Honestly, it seems like you have a guilty til proven innocent frame of mind there, and just like the Witch Hunts it can only be proven by death.

Honestly, it doesn't look like you've read my posts. Read 356, 367, and 425.
And I don't want to repeat my SC case from D1, I think I layed it out very well.

You can't expect respect when you have a dog in your avatar.

[Caboose]

Boo

[Caboose]

/bump

BSW, would you mind reconstructing your argument so that I can defend myself properly?

[Caboose]

This non-responsiveness wearies me.

Vote: BSW

Where did magis go?

[Caboose]

Caboose Im more looking at Magis as mafia right now. And why are u voting for me?

Because you presented a crappy case.
A postzilla isn't required, but there has to be

something

.

[Caboose]

you see..that's just the problem...i don't have a GOOD reading on anyone...i can tell you people that aren't playing very smartly(BSW and Caboose) but as to who's scum....your guess is as good as mine...from previous experience the people you think are scum aren't always scum...and when they are it's usually rather difficult to find out who their scum buddies are..unless of course they were bussing.....
so honestly, right now i really don't KNOW...i can make guesses but the last couple times i've been wrong so i'm kinda doubting my judgement a little right now

Well, if you have no idea, don't sit and crap on me.
That really pisses me off.

[Caboose]

Also I hate it when people like caboose adopt the sort of playstyle where they are "soooo certain" that such and such is scum and they say stuff like "why is everybody wasting time lets just lynch already!". They are almost always wrong and then try to ignore they ever said that stuff the next day when it becomes clear that they were wrong.
I've just seen a number of people doing this recently and it annoys the hell out of me.

What annoys the hell out of me is the thread stalling and people refusing to cooperate or post things actually relevant to the game (such as crywolf). If you have a problem with what I'm doing, HAVE AN ALTERNATE.

Playing conservatively helps absolutely NO ONE. I made a mistake D2, but I'm not apologizing for it, and I don't think my playstyle is "wrong" because of it. I don't know why I'm faulted for it.

[Caboose]

I know you make concise posts, zwet, but you're going to have to back that up.

[Caboose]

The case on EmpTyger is complete crap. "OMG, the scum are playing well, so the scum must be Tyger" is closely related to a burden of proficiency argument.

[Caboose]

OMGUS ALERT

Unvote; Vote: ThAdmiral

It's not omgus. I was merely pointing out the fact that emptyger was using bad logic and wifom to fuel his case, something you seemed to pick up on in the post directly before mine...before voting me in the post directly after mine.

What gives?

^This.

zwet's calling down Ad on a nonscumtell is sketchy.

[Caboose]

Darn

[Caboose]

zwet, give it up. We lost.