Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Korina]

VC 1.21

Merlyn (7, E-3!):

Aureal, Abnegation, usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, Save The Dragons, KatyKimFanClub

Rauthedir (3):

DragonEater70, Titus, camelCasedSnivy

Ranger (3):

Kyoko Kirigiri, Doctor Drew, Merlyn

KatyKimFanClub (1):

WhemeStar

WhemeStar (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Abnegation (0):

DragonEater70 (0):

Kyoko Kirigiri (0):

camelCasedSnivy (0):

Aureal (0):

Doctor Drew (0):

sheepsaysmeep (0):

Random Nurse (0):

usesPython (0):

Save the Dragons (0):

Radical Rat (0):

Morning Tweet (0):

Titus (0):

Flea the Magician (0):

Not Voting (4):

Flea the Magician, Morning Tweet, Random Nurse, Rautherdir

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Deadline is in:

(expired on 2023-07-17 00:30:00)

Moderator Notes:

- Titus is V/LA until July 7th, 2023.
- Ranger is V/LA every Sunday/Monday for July.
- DragonEater70 is V/LA until Thursday.
- KatyKimFanClub is V/LA until Wednesday.

Nightmare

Ranger's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Radical Rat, usesPython, Abnegation, sheepsaysmeep, Ranger, Titus] (7, E-3!):

Ranger, usesPython, camelCasedSnivy, Rautherdir, Radical Rat, Abnegation, Save The Dragons

Random Nurse's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, anger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, camelCasedSnivy, KatyKimFanClub] (1):

Random Nurse

DragonEater70's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, DragonEater70, usesPython, Abnegation, Aureal, Titus] (1):

DragonEater70

KatyKimFanClub's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, KatyKimFanClub, usesPython, Radical Rat, Ranger, Morning Tweet, Random Nurse] (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Merlyn's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, Radical Rat, usesPython, Rautherdir, Aureal, Abnegation, Merlyn] (1):

Merlyn

Morning Tweet's proposal: [

Doctor Drew

, usesPython, Ranger, Titus, Abnegation, Aureal, Rautherdir] (1):

Morning Tweet

With

19

known votes, it takes

10

of them to achieve a majority.

Doctor Drew is confirmed.

Spoiler: Pronouns

Pronoun Key

Later

Spoiler: Votes I'm Mentioning For Some Reason (EMPTY)

Empty

[camelCasedSnivy]

Korina its not E-6

[camelCasedSnivy]

i have nothing else to say except for that very stupid joke

can people please vote (and not hammer pls)

[KatyKimFanClub]

Counting votes for nightmare I got:
Confirmed - Drew
13 - usesPython
11 - Radical Rat
10 - Titus, Abnegation
9 - Ranger
7- Sheep
4- Aureal
2 - Rauth, DragonEater70
1- Merlyn, KKFC, Camel, Random Nurse, Morning Tweet
0- Kyoko, StD, Flea.

Some notes: there are 13 people voting for a proposal. StD is the only person voting for a proposal without a vote (more of a fun fact really).

Questions: Why haven't usesPython, Radical Rat, Titus, and Abnegation been confirmed. I thought it was simple majority? I am not dumbtelling when I ask this.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Actually, I think some of these votes are off. Abnegation is listed as voting twice (once for their own proposal and once for usesPython's).

[Korina]

Counting votes for nightmare I got:
Confirmed - Drew
13 - usesPython
11 - Radical Rat
10 - Titus, Abnegation
9 - Ranger
7- Sheep
4- Aureal
2 - Rauth, DragonEater70
1- Merlyn, KKFC, Camel, Random Nurse, Morning Tweet
0- Kyoko, StD, Flea.

Some notes: there are 13 people voting for a proposal. StD is the only person voting for a proposal without a vote (more of a fun fact really).

Questions: Why haven't usesPython, Radical Rat, Titus, and Abnegation been confirmed. I thought it was simple majority? I am not dumbtelling when I ask this.

Because the full proposal must go through at once. There is no staggered confirmation like the last time I ran this setup because jfc was that horrible to make VCs for. Either the full proposal goes through, or no proposal goes through. The majority of all living players must agree to one proposal for it to go through.

[Korina]

Actually, I think some of these votes are off. Abnegation is listed as voting twice (once for their own proposal and once for usesPython's).

This has been fixed.

[Doctor Drew]

Oops sorry been having a couple mental health days, hopefully be back later tonight.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Thank you.
---
The reason I thought that is that I forgot that Drew was a special case/power. When that happened I made a mental note to myself that we were voting for individuals and not proposals and I just never fixed it in my head until now.

[camelCasedSnivy]

can we get the ranger proposal confirmed thanks

also once the 4 left vote then maybe something something something genius

[WhemeStar]

okay questoin

so nightmare thing works like 7 ppl go into pt and select who gets a role?

[Rautherdir]

That is the way we're planning on using it, yes.

[Rautherdir]

Well, to be specific, seven people will be going in and deciding on someone to give a 1-shot bulletproof IC invention to.

[WhemeStar]

Why don’t we just vote on who gets it instead

[Random Nurse]

I didn't realize Merlyn was at L-3. What's the main reason for this wagon?

[Rautherdir]

Why don’t we just vote on who gets it instead

So that if there's a cult there's a chance their recruit and the target for the IC invention will overlap. Or other such things where if scum knew what was going to happen they could play around it.

[Rautherdir]

Same applies for the scum night kill as well. If they shoot the same person that gets picked to get bulletproof IC, then... well. That's a wasted shot, which is good for us.

[WhemeStar]

ah this is why i dont make decisons

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Hey guys Wednesday here so I can play and catch up. sorry for my absence before

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Because I do not believe that someone with such an ability would just pop it D1 without any indication or discussion.

If Ranger had fessed up about it, I MIGHT have believed the Drew puns/offering to pay Drew royalties immediately before the announcement were crumbing, but she has now explicitly denied that possibility, and I don't think anyone else really has anything pointing toward abnormal information about Drew.

But gave you the impression it was his own ability.

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

This is also true

for all we know, scum could have noticed that ranger was making

drew

puns and put him in there to cast suspicion. idk.

^
that might implicate kirigiri if true but it's just a theory.

Well I wasn't even around before that large catch-up post series I put lol but I guess I can see where you're coming with that. I still think ranger is directly involved with that, but my gut feeling about it is changed a bit since first posts I made about it. Like I still see ranger scummy overall and not because of the mech talk and puns and signaling but because of her play till this point but I can see worlds I might be wrong about her.

I think Drew was pretty townie with his Abnegation/KKFC push, if we're talking about the day ability why cant it be something like a Town Informed Nightmare Decider?

You thought that most recent push was *town*? It seemed pretty NAI to me, with it being total bullshit

i'm not python, but those sorts of conspiracy theories are definitely a thing town!drew does.

It just felt pretty shallow that I don't think scum him cant replicate? but I have slight town vibes on him too

Lawyer/Savior wins if their client wins.

Why are we talking about this?

Kiri thought Ranger might have been this role for Drew. And was pushing Ranger about it.

I was pushing ranger to make them explain puns/signaling and then later cause I found them scummy. That was just a theory I got along the way about signaling not my reason for the push.

I haven't really expressed any of my own opinions for the last 20 pages or so. Figured I'd actually try starting now.
Kyoko vs. Ranger reads like TvT but to be honest I didn't read the second half of it and I have no interest in ever reading it. I think Ranger is town though because I don't most of the arguments that I did read about him signaling or doing anything. I'm also not sure if Ranger does the readslist every game but this seems something that will be pretty hard to explain in an endgame if Ranger gets there, so I don't think there's any sort of pressure to vote Ranger now. This same logic holds for Kyoko honestly. usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town? Could explain relative lack of activity from some people if they're just watching a town implode though.

Honestly getting scum vibes from Random Nurse? I kind of just want them to iso someone and ignore everything else so we can get some more content going.

Presumably Titus does not scumread me as much as she wants to policy Rauth, but I am interested if there's been any progression in her reads on me since 510?

Two different people say this is what town Drew does so whatever I'm over it gameplay wise (emotionally I am not).

Rauth has had multiple instances where they seemed to not really care about their own survival which seems pretty town ngl.

Now this post actually pings me. feels too sidelined and safe producing reads that it can hint not having a thought process behind it. Like I feel its filled with easy reads and layers shading and it just vibes me wrong.

for instance in first part calls ranger vs me tvt says he is unsure about it, adds python and says he doesn't like them scumreading me - which feels so out of context and shady overall to just include all three of us there and saying one will probably not be town

and then random nurse and titus and repeating of rauth vibes most people have.

(I tend to explain my vibes harder than they are and people assume its a solid read. I don't think this post alone makes KatyKimFanClub scum, but it viubed hard on scum meter toward scummy state) maybe I iso dive this slot later.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I haven't really expressed any of my own opinions for the last 20 pages or so. Figured I'd actually try starting now.
Kyoko vs. Ranger reads like TvT but to be honest I didn't read the second half of it and I have no interest in ever reading it. I think Ranger is town though because I don't most of the arguments that I did read about him signaling or doing anything. I'm also not sure if Ranger does the readslist every game but this seems something that will be pretty hard to explain in an endgame if Ranger gets there, so I don't think there's any sort of pressure to vote Ranger now. This same logic holds for Kyoko honestly. usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town? Could explain relative lack of activity from some people if they're just watching a town implode though.

Honestly getting scum vibes from Random Nurse? I kind of just want them to iso someone and ignore everything else so we can get some more content going.

Presumably Titus does not scumread me as much as she wants to policy Rauth, but I am interested if there's been any progression in her reads on me since 510?

Two different people say this is what town Drew does so whatever I'm over it gameplay wise (emotionally I am not).

Rauth has had multiple instances where they seemed to not really care about their own survival which seems pretty town ngl.

Now this post actually pings me. feels too sidelined and safe producing reads that it can hint not having a thought process behind it. Like I feel its filled with easy reads and layers shading and it just vibes me wrong.

for instance in first part calls ranger vs me tvt says he is unsure about it, adds python and says he doesn't like them scumreading me - which feels so out of context and shady overall to just include all three of us there and saying one will probably not be town

and then random nurse and titus and repeating of rauth vibes most people have.

(I tend to explain my vibes harder than they are and people assume its a solid read. I don't think this post alone makes KatyKimFanClub scum, but it viubed hard on scum meter toward scummy state) maybe I iso dive this slot later.

I guess you largely have issues with my tone and then content. For tone, I just write like this. I use a lot of conditionals and qualifiers just because I hate being wrong so I tend to add things to my writing to temper it. If the part of my post related to you and Ranger vibes you wrong because of tone this is the best defense I can do.

I mentioned this later because usesPython asked a similar question, but the main reason I mentioned them and wondered if everyone involved was town was because you three were pretty active during the pages in question where there was an argument. I felt the level of disagreement between you and Ranger, and then usesPython's commentary on the situation after the fact didn't make a lot of sense to me if everyone involved was town from an activity standpoint. As in, would scum slow down their posting to let the entire situation happen? I figured that scum wouldn't let the conversation play out entirely

because

I got T v T vibes from it, and thus they should try to stop it. I also admit that I mainly look to usesPython's reads to base myself in the game, as I feel as though they had a good sense what was going on at that point.

Can you elaborate on why you mentioned my reads on Random Nurse, Titus, and Rauth? I also don't think my reads on Random Nurse and Rauth were particularly orthodox at the time.

[KatyKimFanClub]

I have admitted, and I once again admit, that it's been pretty hard to scumhunt in this game. The people I think are most scummy (DE70, Wheme), really have no traction and honestly most people aren't interested or haven't interacted with my commentary on why I think they're scummy. At the end of the day, I am probably guilty of not giving great reads, but that's not because I'm scum.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town?

Why is it confusing for us to side with the person getting shitpushed for the past 15 pages?

yeah no u

usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town?

Why is it confusing for us to side with the person getting shitpushed for the past 15 pages?

Err, I don't think the move is confusing. It actually makes a lot of sense. But part of my brain just thinks it would be weird if all three of you flipped town? Like to what extent is this level of disagreement normal.

yeah Idk this just doesn't feel natural.

Emotionally what?

Abdeg and Katy are prob scum, Rauth to a lesser degree.

Titus is hard town.

Merlyn, do better.

Still enjoying being in Ranger's pocket for the time being.

Not sure with that titus read, she seems to be acting as she has no idea whats going on at all and I don't know how to read that attidue from her. and I feel abdeg posts felt all pretty natural to me and I don't agree there.

Emotionally what?

Abdeg and Katy are prob scum, Rauth to a lesser degree.

Titus is hard town.

Merlyn, do better.

Still enjoying being in Ranger's pocket for the time being.

I literally think all of your reads are prob wrong lol

Start doing better and change my mind.

I don't have any inclination to try and change your mind rn

So in general idgaf if you town read me is more a town attidue but I feel this looks more like it's faked here.

so i've finally figured out what i think about the

drew

puns and the nightmare placement, but it is unfortunately a very boring conclusion.
the puns are probably just puns. even if it looks like signaling, it's a reach to speculate that a very specific 3p role (or a scum traitor) both exists and would signal in such an obvious-looking way. the way it was done just seems like it was bound to get noticed by more people than just the intended target.
i still think drew being placed in the nightmare is +town for him. we've established it's most likely a scum ability, and i really don't think scum would be that desperate to get their partner in there that early, to the point that it would be worth drawing all that attention there. unless we're in multiball, in which case the solution is to read him off his play, and i read him as town right now so nothing changes. perhaps it was just done to sow conflict and suspicion, it did a pretty good job creating a bunch of (imo) useless arguing.
i am sympathetic to the idea that scum is letting the town eat itself. that could be a lot of people though.
still have no clue who to vote, but i liked this answer from ranger so i will probably just sheep it for the time being.

did you ever talk about that merlyn sr? if not, could you?

Sure. Merlyn is THE slot I'm talking about in exploiting Radical Rat. It doesn't display well in iso, yet most of her content is directly reflective of what RR's discussing at the time. Merlyn's given no content I've thought town, looks like scum, and has taken stances which I feel are taking advantage of town accusing town. Merlyn's contributions have been lackluster, and when the town's had its more lighthearted moments, Merlyn's contributions to them has felt forced. Both her hop onto Rauth as well as her hop off Rauth were suspect.

VOTE: merlyn

do better. (sorry, that was mean)

Gonna try to review this post in 2 parts. first the points mentioned. Many roles that require signaling will need obvious signaling, if you're not aware what kind of role you have to signal to, so that argument makes it less likely that its a traitor, and more likely to be such signaling (that get closer to lawyer like - savior like interactions) and this was one of the stuff going through my head when I first mentioned it actually looks like that instead of traitor. so you're right with that. I just have a very hard time assuming things happen randomly in a game full of intentions, and It just feels weird that dre who was heavily puned about is forced in nightmare. This might be a chaos made by scum to make me chase ducks and gooses and the more this discussion went through it felt like that tbh, but I'm still very skeptical about the nature of these events and how "randomly" they happened in same day phase

secondly about the way this post is written, I feel like the analyzing is clear and from a solving mindset but I just feel a tiny bit uneasy about the way you put things together that implies somewhat if ranger was only posting puns = ranger is town kinda vibe which is a logical fallacy. same also with your drew read. Like I agree with the solve that it might not best practice to focus there anymore and I'm actually feeling that vibe as well, but I just dont get to the conclusions you want me to reach with the assumptions that premises of that push were wrong (that the signaling and nightmare force were related). I just think at very best this puts both at null - which is were I had them both for mech reasons. and IMO ranger is a bit scummy individually regardless of that talk.

I'd be OK with voting Merlyn, considering she ignored my question and follow up directed towards her.

This post pings me in so many ways. feels opportunistic rather than solvy.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I haven't really expressed any of my own opinions for the last 20 pages or so. Figured I'd actually try starting now.
Kyoko vs. Ranger reads like TvT but to be honest I didn't read the second half of it and I have no interest in ever reading it. I think Ranger is town though because I don't most of the arguments that I did read about him signaling or doing anything. I'm also not sure if Ranger does the readslist every game but this seems something that will be pretty hard to explain in an endgame if Ranger gets there, so I don't think there's any sort of pressure to vote Ranger now. This same logic holds for Kyoko honestly. usesPython siding with Ranger here is confusing because I don't know if all three are town? Could explain relative lack of activity from some people if they're just watching a town implode though.

Honestly getting scum vibes from Random Nurse? I kind of just want them to iso someone and ignore everything else so we can get some more content going.

Presumably Titus does not scumread me as much as she wants to policy Rauth, but I am interested if there's been any progression in her reads on me since 510?

Two different people say this is what town Drew does so whatever I'm over it gameplay wise (emotionally I am not).

Rauth has had multiple instances where they seemed to not really care about their own survival which seems pretty town ngl.

Now this post actually pings me. feels too sidelined and safe producing reads that it can hint not having a thought process behind it. Like I feel its filled with easy reads and layers shading and it just vibes me wrong.

for instance in first part calls ranger vs me tvt says he is unsure about it, adds python and says he doesn't like them scumreading me - which feels so out of context and shady overall to just include all three of us there and saying one will probably not be town

and then random nurse and titus and repeating of rauth vibes most people have.

(I tend to explain my vibes harder than they are and people assume its a solid read. I don't think this post alone makes KatyKimFanClub scum, but it viubed hard on scum meter toward scummy state) maybe I iso dive this slot later.

I guess you largely have issues with my tone and then content. For tone, I just write like this. I use a lot of conditionals and qualifiers just because I hate being wrong so I tend to add things to my writing to temper it. If the part of my post related to you and Ranger vibes you wrong because of tone this is the best defense I can do.

I mentioned this later because usesPython asked a similar question, but the main reason I mentioned them and wondered if everyone involved was town was because you three were pretty active during the pages in question where there was an argument. I felt the level of disagreement between you and Ranger, and then usesPython's commentary on the situation after the fact didn't make a lot of sense to me if everyone involved was town from an activity standpoint. As in, would scum slow down their posting to let the entire situation happen? I figured that scum wouldn't let the conversation play out entirely

because

I got T v T vibes from it, and thus they should try to stop it. I also admit that I mainly look to usesPython's reads to base myself in the game, as I feel as though they had a good sense what was going on at that point.

Can you elaborate on why you mentioned my reads on Random Nurse, Titus, and Rauth? I also don't think my reads on Random Nurse and Rauth were particularly orthodox at the time.

Yeah like as a package the post just gave me wrong vibes. but I can see what you mean for most part now with this explanation and I can see the thought process behind it actually exists.

as for the other 3 reads, maybe its mainly cause I was feeling same that I it felt you going with game vibe and not making reads, but like titus is kinda lost and random nurse is like just there and rauth being wagoned wrong was a conscious that I also had and are all three easy - just there - takes.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

Ranger as usual youre screaming town and using a lot of reinforcive statements.

Who isnt town in your PoV?

What os a reinforcive statement?

Any time "town" is said, its amended with stuff like "which I am" - its brute forcing that narrative into peoples minds which is an interesting approach from her.

good take

eh random nurse posts feel genuine but are lacking thoughts so might be easy to fake but I wanna give em a bit of credit above other lacking slots like merlyn for it

Some quick thoughts;
Most extended fights are usually TvT. There’s evidence my back and forth with Kyoko Kirigiri might be one, both from her approach and from the stances others (particularly suspect individuals) have taken. However, earlier I did specify my trust in scum-Kyoko's competency. She’s known for prolonged battles usually with town. I need to weigh the odds of genuine TvT vs. Kyoko Kirigiri entering one to mimic her townplay, as well as providing a convenient smokescreen.

Everything DragonEater70 posts demonstrates good, thoughtful analysis. Though such contributions can come from scum, the level of effort required is unnecessary. I need to weigh my gut scumread versus the doubts born from his play.

{Aureal, Merlyn, Kyoko Kirigiri} all look scum to me, yet don’t particularly look partnered. Some of them have anti-partner associatives. I need to explore those.

Titus may be slightly better.
Similarly so for Flea.
The "StD walls as scum" meta's outdated, though I do think he's not TRULY null. I'd more accurately called him nulltown.

Reminder, I’m likely unavailable until tomorrow at earliest.

These kinda posts are making me scumread ranger and why I'm shocked almost no one else has the same vibes. This post is filled with nothing but "yeah it can be tvt" but "she can fake it", so "I think she is scum" that's not logical mindset solving me. It just feels forced and I never felt like this in any game with ranger before that is actually unsettling.

I like STD's wall.