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Post Post #1800 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:35 am

Post by Radical Rat »

Spoiler: Umlaut? More like SCUMlaut, but for real this time

Spoiler: Umlaut/Invisibility

is a soft defense early on, and seems to be taking an RVS-adjacent vote too seriously.

And then there's absolutely nothing until over a thousand posts later when Invisibility drops a vote in . I think this is a good unaligned vote though, because while there's no actual threat to Umlaut, there's also no real incentive to suddenly start distancing after ignoring each other so long. It feels just like a natural observation and push.

Invisibility questioning Umlaut's confidence that we win while being wagoned is interesting. Normally I'd say it's not an argument I expect from a buddy, BUT in this case it's in refutation to Umlaut being kinda-sorta okay with dying, which obviously one of them would have to push back on, but also also Invisibility doesn't actually unvote until Don explains why Umlaut is right, so... I don't think that's what was happening, and I'm choosing to take this at face value.

And that's everything.
Final conclusion: Probably not. There's not really a lot to go off of, but if they are partnered, they're not very coordinated about it. Seems like genuine apathy on Umlaut's part, and Invisibility doesn't seem to have any insight on Umlaut's thinking.


Spoiler: Umlaut/Drew(and towwl)

Umlaut joins the early towwl wagon, despite this particular push being on a very shaky foundation. +5 unaligned points.

Nothing else happens with towwl, and then once Drew shows up they go into talking about alcohol. Umlaut does not unvote yet.

Umalut doesn't like Drew's Invisibility push, agrees with my post dissecting why it's bad, and then... unvotes. Curious.

Scotch/Whiskey Pocket is formalized soon after.

, aside from being nice, is kinda weird. Why attach it to Umlaut's post? Vague shading, despite professing a strong townread already? I don't know if it's aligned, but it's weird.

End of the day though, Umlaut joins on Drew, and it has serious potential at this moment to actually go through, so that's a pretty strong indicator against alignment...
But then doesn't actually stay long enough for it to matter. Hm.

Drew gathering doubts D2 feels like preparing for a real push, but that push never actually materializes beyond a sharp drop in reads list position.

Umlaut starts lightly defending Drew a bit, and eventually they both converge onto osuka, who we know flipped Town, and that's all we've got.

Final conclusions: Possible, but not feeling it. There's definitely some weirdness happening here, but it could just as easily be Drew trying to pocket as it could be actual alignment. At some points I actually started suspecting a Drew/Bingle team, and I wasn't even looking for that. Interested in what comes up there if Merlyn and/or Umlaut turn in their work on time.


Spoiler: Umlaut/Ausuka

Ausuka seems to ignore Umlaut's question in . Wouldn't expect that from a buddy.

Umlaut votes on a Not Town Enough basis, Bingle and Drew are the main wagons at the time. Ausuka DOES respond to this, and Umlaut reaffirms the vote.

Umlaut encourages Drew after joining on Ausuka. Seems to be genuine will for the wagon going.

Umlaut stays on Ausuka until I make a move to start another Cook wagon.

Ausuka backs Merlyn's reads list which has her high and Umlaut low, then offers a PoE including Umlaut in it. Seems self-serving, trying to attach to Merlyn.

Umlaut pushes back pretty hard against Ausuka going for Skygazer. I don't think it looks theatrical.

Ausuka joins the Umlaut wagon D2, then later abandons it for Merlyn when the momentum starts to fizzle.

Umlaut joins on Merlyn, leading wagon at the time, prompted by the realization Firebringer probably would have shot Don. I think this is the only time so far their votes have lined up?

They don't talk about or interact with each other much, but the votes do again converge on osuka, which Ausuka immediately calls out as opportunistic, but doesn't go any further than that.

The only team Ausuka has to rule on with Umlaut in it is given "possible, but not much compelling evidence" which is kinda hedgy, but eh.

And we're done.

Final conclusions: Nah. The clashes all feel real, there's never any attempt to defuse pressure, and often they add momentum to each other's wagons, so if they are paired, they're playing it very dangerously.


Spoiler: Umlaut/Bingle

is somewhat awkward, and Umlaut will basically go on to defend Bingle for the rest of the day if I'm remembering the last three times correctly.

I think the interactions surrounding Bulge look natural.

has Umlaut in the fairly safe null tier.

In Bingle offers a noncommittal townread, tempered by a request to keep Umlaut out of Elo if Bingle's eliminated. This could definitely be a partner thing, because it creates distance in a safe manner, while also asserting Umlaut is playing towny. Obviously, if Bingle/Umlaut are aligned, and Bingle gets eliminated, any suggestions about what to do with Umlaut are meaningless because they're both dead. It's also a strange take given Umlaut's consistent defense of him, though I know during Team Mafia Jingle said he had a tendency to scumread people townreading him, so... maybe it is genuine?

Umlaut continues expressing townreads on Bingle, indicates a willingness to compromise if necessary, but a distaste for it.

And then start of D2 Umlaut suddenly starts advocating for Bingle's death based on trying to force traditional wagon analysis into a game where it doesn't apply. My instinct is that it seems serious, and isn't what you'd want to do to a partner at day start, BUT... if Umlaut KNOWS the wagon analysis take is bad, and is starting the wagon with a deliberately bad reason... Huge big brain play? And also the fact that this pivot happens after one scum pair flips and pulling off effective distancing is just as good as a clear... I know it's tinfoily, but damn would it be cool if it's real.

Bingle votes osuka, but does complain about Umlaut.

But then if Umlaut is just pushing Bingle as a 9000 IQ red herring and doesn't actually want it to go through, I don't see why he'd back me up on my assertion of osuka being Town...

Umlaut finally moves off of Bingle to sheep Don, which is an incredibly weak reason.

Interestingly, throughout all of this, Bingle never actually votes for Umlaut in return, despite (or perhaps because of?) the wagon growing to a very reasonable size.

And then they both end up on osuka anyway.

is VERY interesting to me, because Bingle points out that Umlaut saying I look Town but being paranoid is a "textbook buddy read," going on about the benefits of doing so... when that's literally exactly what Bingle said about Umlaut D1 with as I covered earlier.

I do have hesitancy with regard to Bingle landing on an Umlaut vote though. It could be performative, knowing that votes now don't mean too much as we're likely to just kinda dictate a wagon later when more analyses come in, and the gamestate does necessitate that scum take some risks here, but it does give me some pause. It could be an interesting way to cast doubt on me, but why not just... do that then?

I think that covers it, this one's been rather meaty.

Final conclusions: Plausible. It's a tinfoil theory, but I believe it's a scheme they could reasonably come up with. I'd probably be interested in pursuing this if sheep ends up green.


Final final conclusions: Umlaut/Bingle's the only one that really has a spark for me, and it's a real juicy pairing, but it has enough holes that it doesn't supplant my existing reads. I'd vote Umlaut as a backup, but it doesn't seem like an ideal choice today. Maybe tomorrow if tomorrow happens.
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Post Post #1801 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:41 am

Post by Radical Rat »

Glad I was able to get that out in time, and will now be taking questions, as well as offering one of my own.


@Bingle
1747 is VERY interesting to me, because Bingle points out that Umlaut saying I look Town but being paranoid is a "textbook buddy read," going on about the benefits of doing so... when that's literally exactly what Bingle said about Umlaut D1 with as I covered earlier.
Do you perceive there as being a difference between your version of this and the one you accuse Umlaut of? If so, what is that difference?
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Post Post #1802 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:42 am

Post by Datisi »

vote count 3.04

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-07-18 14:00:00).


yeet
Meryln [3]:
sheepsaysmeep, Invisibility, Umlaut
Doctor Drew [2]:
Firebringer, Merlyn
Umlaut [1]:
Bingle
sheepsaysmeep [1]:
Radical Rat

not voting [2]:
Ausuka, Doctor Drew


mod notesthis is a mod note.


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Last edited by Datisi on Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1803 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:43 am

Post by Datisi »

prodding Ausuka and Doctor Drew.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1804 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 11:46 am

Post by Datisi »

reminding everyone of the following rule in my ruleset. the number of prods each player has received is visible in the thread OP.
In post 1, Datisi wrote: ~ if i have to prod you for the fourth time, i will automatically start searching for a replacement.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1805 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 1:00 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 1801, Radical Rat wrote: Do you perceive there as being a difference between your version of this and the one you accuse Umlaut of? If so, what is that difference?
No, not at all. It's not that having nuanced reads like that is inherently scummy, it's that as scum having a nuanced read like that is something you specifically want to do with a partner. The analysis here isn't whether Umlaut is scum or you are scum, but specifically whether it makes sense for you to be scum together. I don't think Umlaut or you are scum for having a read of "Rat is towny but maybe I'm wrong" but if Umlaut flipped and we had to continue the game it WOULD make me reconsider how town I thought you were.

This method of analysis is for shit for actually finding scum. It's all about removing people from the lim pool.
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Post Post #1806 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:50 pm

Post by Bingle »

In post 1804, Datisi wrote:
reminding everyone of the following rule in my ruleset. the number of prods each player has received is visible in the thread OP.
In post 1, Datisi wrote: ~ if i have to prod you for the fourth time, i will automatically start searching for a replacement.
I'd like to request Black and Meuh be prodded. Neither has posted in more than 36 hours, and that way I'll be the only unprodded slot.
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Post Post #1807 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 3:52 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

VOTE: Umlaut
'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo
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Post Post #1808 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 4:13 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

I dunno

umlaut changing his mind from pushing me hard => calling me villa also felt more likely town cuz I feel liek a make-or-break lim this game

im like, limmable but towny player

wolves win the game by pushing me hard enough to get my lim over the line in the end. especially umlaut who might not make it to endgame needs to keep me in his poe
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Post Post #1809 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:56 pm

Post by Radical Rat »

In post 1808, sheepsaysmeep wrote: I dunno

umlaut changing his mind from pushing me hard => calling me villa also felt more likely town cuz I feel liek a make-or-break lim this game

im like, limmable but towny player

wolves win the game by pushing me hard enough to get my lim over the line in the end. especially umlaut who might not make it to endgame needs to keep me in his poe
So we should eliminate you NOW, before it's actually make or break, yeah?
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Post Post #1810 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:34 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

haha
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Post Post #1811 (ISO) » Sat Jul 15, 2023 6:34 pm

Post by sheepsaysmeep »

no getting limmed is embarrassing
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Post Post #1812 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:06 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 1769, Umlaut wrote: Prodge again blah

My head is too far out of this game and getting it back in is going to be work. I hate doing work.

VOTE: Merlyn to make it "not a prodge"
This is a mood

Is merlyn scum? Idk maybe lol
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Post Post #1813 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:09 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 1763, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 1759, Ausuka wrote: Drew why did your read on me change

I know you said something about my reads list? I'd that elaboratable
Long story shot, the more I soaked you in the more reasonable you seemed. I wasn't getting a scum mentality from you even though we were disagreeing on certain things.

IE, Bingle and Osuka
I guess I'd like to know like... When you thought the disagreement was scum originally, what was the difference then? Did I have like a scum mindset at that point?
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Post Post #1814 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 1:24 am

Post by Datisi »

prodding Firebringer and Umlaut.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1815 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:18 am

Post by Datisi »

replacing Umlaut.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1816 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:13 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 1805, Bingle wrote:
In post 1801, Radical Rat wrote: Do you perceive there as being a difference between your version of this and the one you accuse Umlaut of? If so, what is that difference?
No, not at all. It's not that having nuanced reads like that is inherently scummy, it's that as scum having a nuanced read like that is something you specifically want to do with a partner. The analysis here isn't whether Umlaut is scum or you are scum, but specifically whether it makes sense for you to be scum together. I don't think Umlaut or you are scum for having a read of "Rat is towny but maybe I'm wrong" but if Umlaut flipped scum and we had to continue the game it WOULD make me reconsider how town I thought you were.

This method of analysis is for shit for actually finding scum. It's all about removing people from the lim pool.
FTFM

Dropped a word that massively changed the meaning of the post. If umlaut flips town I wouldn’t think rat was scummier because they necessarily wouldn’t be partners.
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Post Post #1817 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:21 am

Post by Datisi »

PookyTheMagicalBear replaces Umlaut.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
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Post Post #1818 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:21 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

sup ya'all lucky im here to rescue you
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Post Post #1819 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:23 am

Post by Invisibility »

haha cool
Invisibility is actually AWESOME!
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Post Post #1820 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:23 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

im familiar with the situation and I would like to offer the people here a deal

sheep me today and we will win on the spot cuz we only need to hit one of the 2 remaining scum to win.

if im wrong, just yeet me tommorrow - no need to worry about scum!pooky being devious or some shit

cuz im not scum pooky im town pooky

i have not actually read the game but I am happy to HARDCARRY this town
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Post Post #1821 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:24 am

Post by Invisibility »

but how will you determine this brilliant scumread for us to sheep you on
Invisibility is actually AWESOME!
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Post Post #1822 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:24 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

if my services are not needed and ya'all got this shit under control and know who the baddies are - tell me to shut up and i'll do that or w/e
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Post Post #1823 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:25 am

Post by Invisibility »

well we were recently assigned homework and we're trying to work out all the possible partner combinations. My homework is overdue cuz I'm awesome
Invisibility is actually AWESOME!
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Post Post #1824 (ISO) » Sun Jul 16, 2023 5:25 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 1821, Invisibility wrote: but how will you determine this brilliant scumread for us to sheep you on
I open up this game, drink one shot of whiskey every page I read, eventually the words will blur together and the truth will reveal itself
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