Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you noticed, I also asked Cakez to say it. ;P

You sound like scum mad they got caught out that way.

it's okay, you're in a decent spot to fight back.

[Flavor Leaf]

this cruel cruel game sucks because i can't tell who is partners with cakez yet..

Why Cakez?

Hes doing this thing where hes complaining but doing nothing to fix the problem. It makes it look like hes here, but hes really just doing nothing. Usually people would just not say anything about having no reads unless theyre prompted.

this is only thing i can think of, which makes Marcistar's 'you can read' comment even worse since it was so far back.

[Flavor Leaf]

*Answer your question at least from Marci's perspective

I'm kinda eh on whether a "self-conscious" tell is AI - I feel like it'd vary from person to person more than anything - but saying Cakez is experienced doesn't really make sense unless you're saying he's too experienced to drop a tell like that

I am just saying it is AI, unless you think Cakez is a noob......then maybe I get the read.

But it is a super weak reason to scum read someone, especially to the point where you are looking for their buddy(s).

And then when getting some pressure from me, start acting dismissive.

Pre Edit: Marci, calling someones in game play isn't mean.....just wait until you see what I am capable of lol.

But I just don't understand how you can make, what seems to me, a solid scum read based off that one Cakez post unless you have some solid meta read on them.

-Drew

Mod

we are voting Snivy as well.....though I think I misspelled their name lol.....so VOTE: Snivy

Fixed

So you pushed Marcistar pretty hard there for a minute. This post doesn't feel like you're sold on her responses, but I notice you've kept the snivy vote. What's the reasoning?

Snivy was the first person to make me say 'oh so they are scum'.

Marci I don't like either(nothing personal, you seem very pleasant as a person lol), consider my vote on them in spirit.

-Drew

vote me? what are you so scared of???? or oops maybe you dont actually think im scum! you're so so confident but OOPS!!! WHERES THE VOTE HONEY XX

who knows maybe itll really set things into full motion
or maybe you'll get me to crumble under the pressure!!! i know you want that!!! whats the downsides since im cleary scummy

dont be a scaredy cat!!

i dont agree with the snivy read yet

this is also screaming scum who feels safe from a push, and TMI town reading Snivy.

[Flavor Leaf]

I guess my qualm with [p]181[/p] is - why is this something worth voting over when at least one person was going to be yeeted out via Sacrifice anyway? Two day eliminations is quite punishing for the town (Double Day setup is 13 town vs 3 scum), but even assuming that Merlyn doesn't know that, what is the material difference between the two options? It seems like a fairly minor point of disagreement imo.

Some of this is greek to me. No idea if you're right or wrong, no idea if that setup applies to this game. It is a fairly minor point, I have to give you that, but like, yeah and? What is anybody going to be pushing early D1 that's not a minor point? Your push on me is over something pretty minor.

I don't even like RC's responses (or non responses) to my vote. Basically they've let two other folks do the arguing for them- when they finally addressed it, it wasn't even to me directly, but to the two folks arguing in his favor. It feels lurky to me.

My take on Devil and Marci is TvT. Devil Drew is playing the way I've grown to expect him to as town which is looking for loose strings to pull and seeing if anything unravels. I get the thought process behind the snivy vote, don't know if I agree yet or not, but the vote itself is not inherently scummy. Marci's confidence strikes me as town, that kind of posting without careful evaluation and reevaluation I see from scum a lot.

I have to think more about the Cakez thing. My first impulse it that it's overblown but I don't know- it is kind of weird to say you're keeping your random vote stage vote until...I guess it's not more random? And then voting anyway, for a lurker. It's like little pings.

damn, this reeks of Merlyn Scum with Marcistar tbh.

[marcistar]

this wont work on me lolol if anything itll make me encourage an elimination on myself

[Flavor Leaf]

I guess my qualm with [p]181[/p] is - why is this something worth voting over when at least one person was going to be yeeted out via Sacrifice anyway? Two day eliminations is quite punishing for the town (Double Day setup is 13 town vs 3 scum), but even assuming that Merlyn doesn't know that, what is the material difference between the two options? It seems like a fairly minor point of disagreement imo.

Some of this is greek to me. No idea if you're right or wrong, no idea if that setup applies to this game. It is a fairly minor point, I have to give you that, but like, yeah and? What is anybody going to be pushing early D1 that's not a minor point? Your push on me is over something pretty minor.

I don't even like RC's responses (or non responses) to my vote. Basically they've let two other folks do the arguing for them- when they finally addressed it, it wasn't even to me directly, but to the two folks arguing in his favor. It feels lurky to me.

My take on Devil and Marci is TvT. Devil Drew is playing the way I've grown to expect him to as town which is looking for loose strings to pull and seeing if anything unravels. I get the thought process behind the snivy vote, don't know if I agree yet or not, but the vote itself is not inherently scummy. Marci's confidence strikes me as town, that kind of posting without careful evaluation and reevaluation I see from scum a lot.

I have to think more about the Cakez thing. My first impulse it that it's overblown but I don't know- it is kind of weird to say you're keeping your random vote stage vote until...I guess it's not more random? And then voting anyway, for a lurker. It's like little pings.

Walk me through this "Marci and Devil are TvT" thought process a little more, atm that read feels way too premature. I have my own reasons for town reading Marci, but I don't get how you landed on town!Marci here.

thank you, Roden, for calling this post out.

I believe I would have town read Marci at this point in the game as well.

Notice how Merlyn's comments focus more on why Drew is town rather than why marci is town here. It's giving a good reason why Drew is town, and then commenting on Cakez.

I think I gotta move ya down a tier, Merlyn.

[Flavor Leaf]

this wont work on me lolol if anything itll make me encourage an elimination on myself

do what ya gotta do.

I'm more doing it to give my read to other people, so don't understand what you mean by 'wont work on me'.

I'm not trying to convince YOU you're scum. That would be odd, how or why would I do that?

[Flavor Leaf]

this wont work on me lolol if anything itll make me encourage an elimination on myself

but again, noting the lack of acknowledgement on the Cakez reasoning, you can read call out.

It's just as I expected, you don't really have any defense, so you're playing defeatist, lol discredit.

Lazy strategy.

[marcistar]

youre trying to convince me to fight back and flip my reads on others to "appease my haters", trying to make me dig myself into a hole. but i literally give 0 fucks.

[marcistar]

this wont work on me lolol if anything itll make me encourage an elimination on myself

but again, noting the lack of acknowledgement on the Cakez reasoning, you can read call out.

It's just as I expected, you don't really have any defense, so you're playing defeatist, lol discredit.

Lazy strategy.

like i said if you arent gonna read rhen i wont help you

[Flavor Leaf]

this wont work on me lolol if anything itll make me encourage an elimination on myself

but again, noting the lack of acknowledgement on the Cakez reasoning, you can read call out.

It's just as I expected, you don't really have any defense, so you're playing defeatist, lol discredit.

Lazy strategy.

like i said if you arent gonna read rhen i wont help you

I already read the entire game, and I even quoted the exact reasoning you gave for Cakez.

Yeah, Marci's scum here.

[marcistar]

yEaH mArCiS sCuM hErE

[Flavor Leaf]

youre trying to convince me to fight back and flip my reads on others to "appease my haters", trying to make me dig myself into a hole. but i literally give 0 fucks.

Name which reads of yours I'm trying to flip.

Because I don't think there's a single thing there that implies that to be the truth.

[Flavor Leaf]

yEaH mArCiS sCuM hErE

and a basic discredit

[marcistar]

youre trying to get me to keep going flippity floppity on my cakez read

[Flavor Leaf]

youre trying to get me to keep going flippity floppity on my cakez read

How?

I just wanna know your reasonings that apparently if I read the game I'd know, but I just read the entire game, and I only really saw the one thing. You said one more with the 'he's a good player, right?' line, but I don't even think you can word it.

Which is fine, but you're acting like it's in your ISO heavy, and it's not.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cat Scratch Fever
meowmeow
Deal With The Devil

camelCasedSnivy
SirCakez
Roden

Random Nurse
Penguin Power
Aureal

RCEnigma

Merlyn
marcistar

Updated the list after the reread. I had skimmed earlier today at work, but this time I had the time to go through it page by page.

Had to add the other tier. RN/PP are kinda neutral, nothing super scummy from them for me. Aureal I've seen a few possible scum things, but could end up being NAI things.

[meowmeow]

i failed in my quest to understand snivy, but i think his read on fl is probably +town? i mean, i still don't get it at all, but it probably makes more sense for snivy to have just struck a chord with one of the posts which i think are blatantly nai vs like, just blurting out a townread on fl for no reason and not being able to back it up when it was questioned. i mean, as scum i think you think about these things more and most people play it a bit safer whereas as town if snivy had that thought at one point he might have just gone all in on it and doesn't feel like he can walk it back now

i think flavor leaf's zealous crusade to prevent anyone from even asking about his weird relationship with snivy is scummy though. 'hounding' is such a melodramatic word to use for people asking questions about something that is obviously strange. how many votes does snivy even have here? most of the people he portrays as vultures looking to prey on the poor little snivy aren't even pushing him right now. and i think if you're being townread it's at least normal to be more cautious than... whatever this is. it feels like he decided this was the angle he wanted to take and then went much further with it than anyone ever would because he's flavor leaf and if anyone calls him out on it he can shout louder

@fl;
in your eyes, do you think a post like 466 or 468 would be particularly difficult to fake as scum?
and re 682 do you expect someone like snivy to be really familiar with your reputation?

no to all, and thats also why i think it's townier of camel tbh

i don't like necessarily disagree. maybe the speed and strength of the snivy read is scummy, but the read itself being town is fine. i'm more asking about like, why you seem to think pressing snivy on that read is unnatural. you seem to agree the read itself is ??? so why wouldn't trying to get him to explain it more be helpful? like, i don't get the angle here. well, the second question i might have misunderstood 682? i read it more like, 'snivy would go out of his way to pocket me if he was townreading me because i'm the FLAVOR LEAF'

well you seem to think i'm townier than snivy now for whatever reason so maybe this is slightly out of date but i'm posting it anyway

[marcistar]

hahahha but i already explained it honey

[Flavor Leaf]

this cruel cruel game sucks because i can't tell who is partners with cakez yet..

Why Cakez?

Hes doing this thing where hes complaining but doing nothing to fix the problem. It makes it look like hes here, but hes really just doing nothing. Usually people would just not say anything about having no reads unless theyre prompted.

this is literally the only reason in their entire ISO

everything else is 'done nothing to make me doubt my original read'.

[Flavor Leaf]

i failed in my quest to understand snivy, but i think his read on fl is probably +town? i mean, i still don't get it at all, but it probably makes more sense for snivy to have just struck a chord with one of the posts which i think are blatantly nai vs like, just blurting out a townread on fl for no reason and not being able to back it up when it was questioned. i mean, as scum i think you think about these things more and most people play it a bit safer whereas as town if snivy had that thought at one point he might have just gone all in on it and doesn't feel like he can walk it back now

i think flavor leaf's zealous crusade to prevent anyone from even asking about his weird relationship with snivy is scummy though. 'hounding' is such a melodramatic word to use for people asking questions about something that is obviously strange. how many votes does snivy even have here? most of the people he portrays as vultures looking to prey on the poor little snivy aren't even pushing him right now. and i think if you're being townread it's at least normal to be more cautious than... whatever this is. it feels like he decided this was the angle he wanted to take and then went much further with it than anyone ever would because he's flavor leaf and if anyone calls him out on it he can shout louder

@fl;
in your eyes, do you think a post like 466 or 468 would be particularly difficult to fake as scum?
and re 682 do you expect someone like snivy to be really familiar with your reputation?

no to all, and thats also why i think it's townier of camel tbh

i don't like necessarily disagree. maybe the speed and strength of the snivy read is scummy, but the read itself being town is fine. i'm more asking about like, why you seem to think pressing snivy on that read is unnatural. you seem to agree the read itself is ??? so why wouldn't trying to get him to explain it more be helpful? like, i don't get the angle here. well, the second question i might have misunderstood 682? i read it more like, 'snivy would go out of his way to pocket me if he was townreading me because i'm the FLAVOR LEAF'

well you seem to think i'm townier than snivy now for whatever reason so maybe this is slightly out of date but i'm posting it anyway

my read wasnt too complex, and was more of a base level kinda thing. didn't really have that much of an answer for it other than 'snivy seemed genuine with their read', and for that I think they were townie. It didn't feel like I was trying to get pocketed.

End of the day, I can still see worlds where they are scum, I just wouldn't really have much interest in them in the present time.

I was also still grasping onto the game, and it was one of my first real reads of any kind based on energy around the game at the time.

[Flavor Leaf]

Cat Scratch Fever
meowmeow
Deal With The Devil

camelCasedSnivy
SirCakez
Roden

Random Nurse
Penguin Power
Aureal

RCEnigma

Merlyn
marcistar

Updated the list after the reread. I had skimmed earlier today at work, but this time I had the time to go through it page by page.

Had to add the other tier. RN/PP are kinda neutral, nothing super scummy from them for me. Aureal I've seen a few possible scum things, but could end up being NAI things.

there's a part of me that wanted to put Cakez/Roden up in the top tier, so if I had to order it within tiers, which I don't usually, Cakez and Roden probably etch out Snivy here.

I liked a lot of Roden's posts on Merlyn, I dont agree with the conclusion in full, because I don't think Merlyn spews Marcistar town at all, they spewed Drew town if they are scum, but it looks like a deescalation of a possible TvS with a partner.

I also think them replying to CSF makes CSF even townier than I already think CSF is.

I'm in this game now, sorry for the posts, but I'm in analyzing mode now.

[RCEnigma]

My choice of Marcistar over RCE is I trust my ability to read RCE better as the game goes on, and I could see it possible theyre playing the way they are as town.

I do feel they are hiding behind a focus on my slot, and while they are commenting on some other stuff here and there, it almost feels like that's there to appease the fact they're hiding behind a focus on my slot.

I also feel like it's weird of them to try to prioritize solving me day 1 rather than attempting to work with me, which is also something they attempted to call me out on in regards to Cakez, while I actively was stating that I saw a world where Cakez was town in, so that's a bit odd.

Aureal had the weird backwards comparison when comparing this game to the last game when I feel they're super different, but since it's Cakez and I, and that's the only game they've seen me in, and it involves the same players there, I can see it.

Merlyn, idk. I think I got Merlyn Fever, so I'll probably wait for more flips to try and solve Merlyn. I have faith I can solve this slot correctly, but after the last game I got pocketed in while knowing I was in a pocket, makes me want to solve the slot more logically.

You might not recall the last game we played together because you have had more games in the 7 month + span I’ve been away from MS.

But I do recall it and you replaced into a scum slot and flipped the game on its head. And my approach to you that game was to back off and not engage with you and just read your play from a distance. It was not a successful way to approach it because you played me.

I don’t think anyone else I’ve played with here can really manipulate me in that manner.


Ftr I outlined what I was going to do as far as my focus and still keep in mind the rest of the gamestate. So calling me out for doing exactly what I said I’d do is dubious at best.

[RCEnigma]

Cat Scratch Fever
meowmeow
Deal With The Devil

camelCasedSnivy
SirCakez
Roden

Random Nurse
Penguin Power
Aureal

RCEnigma

Merlyn
marcistar

Updated the list after the reread. I had skimmed earlier today at work, but this time I had the time to go through it page by page.

Had to add the other tier. RN/PP are kinda neutral, nothing super scummy from them for me. Aureal I've seen a few possible scum things, but could end up being NAI things.

Talk to me a little about the top tier. And roden if you were tempted to include him.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t have any lingering questions atm about meow town.
I also have csf town if I were to order reads. But they are in a null area in my head if that makes sense. I kind of just nod along to their posting because it looks and sounds good not that I necessarily agree with what’s being said. I’ve come across this before where CSF was town but I don’t know if it’s CSF!town indicative or CSF indicative. Would not elim today though.

Disagree on Drew’s hydra, if I had another vote it’s there.