Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[biancospino]

Votecount 2-III

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

flavor

Spoiler:

execution votes

Deal With The Devil (2):

meowmeow (1505), RCEnigma (1524)

RCEnigma (1):

camelCasedSnivy (1466)

Not voting (9):

Merlyn, Deal With The Devil, Enchant, Flavor leaf, SirCakez, Aureal, Hu Tao, Cat Scratch Fever, marcistar

projects votes

Torture (5):

SirCakez (1470), Cat Scratch Fever (1471), Merlyn (1495), Flavor Leaf (1497), Deal With The Devil (1580)

Trading Outpost (3):

, Enchant (1504), meowmeow (1505), camelCasedSnivy (1571)

Guildhall (1):

Aureal (1474)

Not voting (3):

RCEnigma, Hu Tao, marcistar

notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-08-19 11:00:00).

[meowmeow]

re: my altness; i think being a secret alt is kind of fun, but it's not the point for me really; I'm much more trying to change the way i play and engage to be healthier for me. i would be surprised if meta reading me would be effective because i think the way i'm playing is significantly different to what it would usually be

[meowmeow]

why didn't anyone get NK? My first immediate thought is that they need money to do it and didn't get enough for whatever reason. We spent 30 out of 60k, so either a) not using our full budget is irrelevant or b) an NK costs more than 30K.

given the fact there are 4 scum, does the lack of kill feel strange to you?

The lack of kill is interesting- I don't see a world where a scum team decides that they won't kill N1, so it's worth trying to figure out what went wrong. The number doesn't really change my thoughts on that though, what were you thinking on that part?

the scum team having 4 members makes them much much more powerful. given the fact our powers are... not really that good, i think mafia not having a fictional kill, or probably a more limited one they couldn't use tonight, makes a lot of sense. i was kind of trying to gauge your thought process as to why you sounded surprised at the no kill

[meowmeow]

i think merlyn not knowing how the sacrifice works is +town tho or at least she's probably not aligned with mech heavy players

[meowmeow]

i understand what you're saying here in broad strokes, but how much experience do you have with fl? like, i think this read is more believable if you have seen a strong pattern of him coming in like this as town and not as scum, but like replacing in and being initially distant definitely seems to me like something town fl is incredibly capable of doing?

i feel like this is more indicative on townFL, but end of the day, kinda NAI. i generally wait until something grabs me

i mean i've seen scum fl do this before. that's not really the problem, i think you should get tortured and i will sort you that way. i am more concerned with like why this line of thought is convincing drew i guess

[RCEnigma]

Idk I think FL bringing attention to Infinity’s stance on the gamestate in regards to X Y and Z leading the days narrative, where he is specifically implicated, is townie.

Not much to gain by leading people to a case against him and meow in the same light when it could just have more townies align their thoughts with what infinity was thinking at the time.

[RCEnigma]

Though I do acknowledge there CAN be scum in FL,meow,Drew it isn’t all three.

Gonna reread infinity’s iso anyway.

[Aureal]

i understand what you're saying here in broad strokes, but how much experience do you have with fl? like, i think this read is more believable if you have seen a strong pattern of him coming in like this as town and not as scum, but like replacing in and being initially distant definitely seems to me like something town fl is incredibly capable of doing?

i feel like this is more indicative on townFL, but end of the day, kinda NAI. i generally wait until something grabs me

i mean i've seen scum fl do this before. that's not really the problem, i think you should get tortured and i will sort you that way. i am more concerned with like why this line of thought is convincing drew i guess

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

I've been in agreement with too many things that meow has said to not townread her. And, oddly enough, same with Leaf. Plus I'm inclined to believe what he said about not getting angry as scum, that's too easy for someone to disprove especially in a game where there's people who are pretty familiar with him.

[camelCasedSnivy]

im actually fine using torture on RCE too, but we should probably decide beforehand

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Devil FL is your top townread yes? & you're voting for Torture as well - who do you want to see get Tortured tonight?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

im actually fine using torture on RCE too, but we should probably decide beforehand

Agree

[Aureal]

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

[Merlyn]

why didn't anyone get NK? My first immediate thought is that they need money to do it and didn't get enough for whatever reason. We spent 30 out of 60k, so either a) not using our full budget is irrelevant or b) an NK costs more than 30K.

given the fact there are 4 scum, does the lack of kill feel strange to you?

The lack of kill is interesting- I don't see a world where a scum team decides that they won't kill N1, so it's worth trying to figure out what went wrong. The number doesn't really change my thoughts on that though, what were you thinking on that part?

the scum team having 4 members makes them much much more powerful. given the fact our powers are... not really that good, i think mafia not having a fictional kill, or probably a more limited one they couldn't use tonight, makes a lot of sense. i was kind of trying to gauge your thought process as to why you sounded surprised at the no kill

Okay, I get where you're coming from. I was surprised- I think I always have a reaction when I wake up and see there's been no NK where I go 'ooooooooooh, something went wrong in scumland!!' Your thought process on why there wasn't makes sense to me though.

[Merlyn]

i understand what you're saying here in broad strokes, but how much experience do you have with fl? like, i think this read is more believable if you have seen a strong pattern of him coming in like this as town and not as scum, but like replacing in and being initially distant definitely seems to me like something town fl is incredibly capable of doing?

i feel like this is more indicative on townFL, but end of the day, kinda NAI. i generally wait until something grabs me

i mean i've seen scum fl do this before. that's not really the problem, i think you should get tortured and i will sort you that way. i am more concerned with like why this line of thought is convincing drew i guess

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

I've been in agreement with too many things that meow has said to not townread her. And, oddly enough, same with Leaf. Plus I'm inclined to believe what he said about not getting angry as scum, that's too easy for someone to disprove especially in a game where there's people who are pretty familiar with him.

im actually fine using torture on RCE too, but we should probably decide beforehand

I think it's a huge mistake not to use torture on FL, here's why. He's a player who chats a lot and influences the gamestate strongly because of that. If he's scum, he is capable of driving the gamestate where he wants it to go as players get tripped up on whether to believe the things he's saying, I can speak to this personally. (He'll probably still influence the gamestate a lot even if he's town but as conf town we would know that there's no malevolence behind it).

Now look at how something has gone down: FL offered to be sacrifice, then had a spat with Roden when Roden attempted to do it and told Roden that he'd always meant it to be a different day. Now it's a different day, and he's gone on record that we should torture instead- if he's scum, he can't really wiggle out of that by saying he meant a different day or he's changed his mind, right? If he is scum, he has to rely on his teammates to get him out of this.

So yeah, if you're town and you're reading FL town too, I don't know how you're going to argue that it's not still good for gamestate to know for sure. In my eyes anyone who starts to argue against it is someone to watch closely.

[Merlyn]

I'm still townreading both of you, so I'm not going to support FL being the target here. I think it's best used on a scummier slot. (Not that I don't have any flavor-related concerns about it. But I know nobody is going to care about that because mechanics.)

Who?

Who are the scummier slots? RCE and marci for sure... uh...

ugh who the hell else is in this game...

Cakez I guess? Haven't had that much of a read on him, he feels sorta lost like I have been, like we both were in the other game we played so I've kinda been townleaning there, but not really strongly. A few things have felt off.

*checks playerlist* Damn, basically everyone else has been a townread too. Merlyn I suppose, my read on her has been very up and down and for rather pie-in-the-sky reasons. Snivy and Enchant are weaker townreads.

What are your pie in the sky reasons for sr'ing me, Aureal? I kind of have my own guess (meta related) but I might be off base

[Merlyn]

Snivy, can you explain your read progression on RCE to me? I see you were scumleaning then they moved up to null-

i townread marci leaf
townlean includes meowmeow and aureal
null is everyone else but notably devil
scumlean is merlyn rce and cakez
scum is penguin and snivy

town: aureal? leaf
townlean: meow marci
null: everyone and STILL notably devil
scumlean: cakez
scum: penguin snivy

i believe csf you and nurse are in the middle because i barely got an influence from you 3

But now you've made a vote on them and you're down to torture them.

hi there, im gonna make a vote

VOTE: RCEnigma

HURT: Torture

doubting the leaf read too

im actually fine using torture on RCE too, but we should probably decide beforehand

[Deal With The Devil]

i understand what you're saying here in broad strokes, but how much experience do you have with fl? like, i think this read is more believable if you have seen a strong pattern of him coming in like this as town and not as scum, but like replacing in and being initially distant definitely seems to me like something town fl is incredibly capable of doing?

i feel like this is more indicative on townFL, but end of the day, kinda NAI. i generally wait until something grabs me

i mean i've seen scum fl do this before. that's not really the problem, i think you should get tortured and i will sort you that way. i am more concerned with like why this line of thought is convincing drew i guess

I have played with both FL scum and town very recently, I acknowledge it is a small sample size, but there was a stark different between the two imo. Not to mention the vibe of him seemed more align with the town FL(I do realize vibe is subjective lol).

Devil FL is your top townread yes? & you're voting for Torture as well - who do you want to see get Tortured tonight?

Haven't consulted with Alianna about this yet, but I would say Snivy or RC, maybe meow?

-

[Flavor Leaf]

i understand what you're saying here in broad strokes, but how much experience do you have with fl? like, i think this read is more believable if you have seen a strong pattern of him coming in like this as town and not as scum, but like replacing in and being initially distant definitely seems to me like something town fl is incredibly capable of doing?

i feel like this is more indicative on townFL, but end of the day, kinda NAI. i generally wait until something grabs me

i mean i've seen scum fl do this before. that's not really the problem, i think you should get tortured and i will sort you that way. i am more concerned with like why this line of thought is convincing drew i guess

I have played with both FL scum and town very recently, I acknowledge it is a small sample size, but there was a stark different between the two imo. Not to mention the vibe of him seemed more align with the town FL(I do realize vibe is subjective lol).

Devil FL is your top townread yes? & you're voting for Torture as well - who do you want to see get Tortured tonight?

Haven't consulted with Alianna about this yet, but I would say Snivy or RC, maybe meow?

-

to be fair i do actively change up my styles every game.

[camelCasedSnivy]

Snivy, can you explain your read progression on RCE to me? I see you were scumleaning then they moved up to null-

i townread marci leaf
townlean includes meowmeow and aureal
null is everyone else but notably devil
scumlean is merlyn rce and cakez
scum is penguin and snivy

town: aureal? leaf
townlean: meow marci
null: everyone and STILL notably devil
scumlean: cakez
scum: penguin snivy

i believe csf you and nurse are in the middle because i barely got an influence from you 3

But now you've made a vote on them and you're down to torture them.

hi there, im gonna make a vote

VOTE: RCEnigma

HURT: Torture

doubting the leaf read too

im actually fine using torture on RCE too, but we should probably decide beforehand

during 1091 rce wasnt doing much so i kinda forgot about them

[camelCasedSnivy]

im still worried about cakez a bit but i dont wanna vote them for some reason idk

[Flavor Leaf]

Scum don’t want me tortured.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m trying not to tunnel Meow, but i am feeling like they’re starting to become obvscum to me at this point.

I’m trying to actively step away to try and get rid of any sort of conf bias, but it’s looking rough.

I would like Devil and Snivy to not be faded today.

[Flavor Leaf]

im still worried about cakez a bit but i dont wanna vote them for some reason idk

I have like this exact same vibe towards Cakez. Like I’m paranoid to be town reading them, but I’m leaning towards accepting it

[biancospino]

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