Open 881 | Friends and Enemies | Postgame

[superbowl9]

do you think there's scum on your wagon shady?

Yeah prolly one scum in there, what do you feel about yours?

+1 to 495 who and why?


I think Bulge is town.

STD said he doesn't like my iso but i mean spot the difference between mine and his? I'm not sure on him

I have a slight townread on Ari but its getting weaker.

Ari

Originally I believe she didn't like me because of my pasta question which was a misunderstanding on her part I believe.
My original question was in 137 I just wanted to fish an interaction.
But she didn't want to iso me and find out I guess? So I turned it into a meme which became far too funny to cut off. (also believe this is why STD didn't like me)

That said the tone/thought process of that interaction and most of her posting felt towny to me.
But I hate hate hate 520 - what do you expect to happen? We flood out of the woodwork with bell interaction posts?
I get it if you're annoyed but you're a good enough player to know there are so many good ways to kick up a stink about someone and that is not one of them.
Its antitown and implying no one is helping enough with interactions is a little ironic considering the above stated ^.


{shady tisti drew} would be my preferred fade
Particularly Drew I would like to hear from he kinda sank into the background and has been doing well at contributing without contributing.

[superbowl9]

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things.

What draws the line for you between town armchairing gamestate vs scum faking contributions?

[superbowl9]

could you walk me through why with regards to superbowl9

he had that weird post about hyperposting and readability that doesn't contribute anything, and then like from that point on he's saying *words* but those words don't actually go anywhere

like, i played with him once a few years ago, i was scum in that game and he was town but i remember him actually like, doing things

Here is my contribution you are scum

[yekaterina]

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

made it one whole day before someone said 'but wait!!! look everyone she is a competent scums!!!'

however i don't really think anyone is townreading me outside of maybe shadi1337 because i am posting things that are v'aguely thoughtful' in this game or whatever and this is part of the perspective issue i've had with you

what? i have been talking to shadi1337 and encouraged others to do on many occasions? i even said to you i wanted you to talk to him? i just did not think voting was effective or going to do anything

and it didn't, which if you want to say that's because other people didn't vote, sure fine if we had already flipped shadi1337 we would certainly know his alignment, but you also did not organize that either

like you've decided to reference that micro so i guess i'll act you directly about that then

were, literally anything of things you are currently complaining about with regards to me, evident in that scum game?

or are you just mentioning it to be like, 'beware all'

[yekaterina]

actually just nevermind all of that i am getting distracted sorry

[yekaterina]

i'm town unimportant for the rest of the day unless you're going to try to eliminate me

[yekaterina]

idk also your entire big posts feels like saying vaguely thoughtful things and such

[yekaterina]

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him.

by who?

[meowmeow]

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things.

What draws the line for you between town armchairing gamestate vs scum faking contributions?

i mean it's possible town you decided to say those things, i think they increase the likelihood of you being scum because at a glance they look content like but i can't really see it - i can't say i'm too familiar with town 'armchairing gamestate' or what that entails

pedit: i won't go over it in detail because whatever, but people have been bringing up my scum game for a pretty long time, not townreading me because of it, etc. frankly they are right to do so and that is sensible. the alternative seems rather silly to me.

[yekaterina]

pedit: i won't go over it in detail because whatever, but people have been bringing up my scum game for a pretty long time, not townreading me because of it, etc. frankly they are right to do so and that is sensible. the alternative seems rather silly to me.

but that doesn't make you unsortable, right? in the same way that mine doesn't make me unsortable

[meowmeow]

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him.

by who?

it's a gamestate read. if you're asking who on the wagon i would believe more or less likely to be mafia, it has not changed since i made a reads list.

pedit: ok? did i say you were unsortable? i said people shouldn't townread you too easily, which is true. similarly, people shouldn't townread me too easily. or datisi. etc etc

[yekaterina]

so my point is that saying, 'oh has good scum game beware' instead of like, i will put extra effort into this, doesn't really make sense

but also it's stupid on my part and altogether irrelevant as you should put that effort elsewhere and yeah

[yekaterina]

pedit: ok? did i say you were unsortable? i said people shouldn't townread you too easily, which is true. similarly, people shouldn't townread me too easily. or datisi. etc etc

what i'm saying is, noone other than maybe shadi1337 (which is something i myself noted and shadi1337 responded to) is 'townreading me too easily'

like who is saying yekaterina is definitely always town never eliminate her ever? or giving me a townread for 'vaguely towny' thoughts or whatever you said

[yekaterina]

but again mmmmmmmm why am i so bad at refocusing this can you like ask me about a specific point regarding someone else or something and we can talk about that

[yekaterina]

like just assume i am town what's something you're struggling with here maybe i can be of use

[yekaterina]

like let's solve the game so i can see you're town, basically

[yekaterina]

and in the process maybe we also find the scums and yay

[meowmeow]

obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

i mean, my thought process was that i don't remember any specific reason to townread you which i liked, which made me want to caution against like easily vibereading for stuff like activity etc which a lot of people do instinctively, because there are indeed a lot of scum players who struggle to do that and it is very +town for them. i don't think it's about effort, it's about the process of sorting which is pretty different. most people haven't explained their reads on you, and i don't really feel like pushing them to do so - given most people townread you there is a zero chance you get eliminated today and people can just continue their process of posting however they want. i think often, not interfering with that gives you better reads - with the 'sorting' thing you keep mentioning, i am sorting in the way i do it. i ask questions if i find something that interests me, which i think is reasonably common; i think if there's nothing i want more detail about, asking things tends to be slightly worse because if people just... post whatever they want, it's more true to their instinctive motives which is easier to read for alignment. i think reading people's posts and deciding if things are towny and scummy is actively sorting

in terms of solving the game; i think particularly if you're town we think extremely differently and it will be difficult to like do a town jam session and get a perfect sweep, but we can certainly try. what about bell? you said he was town, right? in terms of struggling to read, he's the only truly 'neutral' read on my list, so it seems like a good choice

[yekaterina]

i mean, my thought process was that i don't remember any specific reason to townread you which i liked, which made me want to caution against like easily vibereading for stuff like activity etc which a lot of people do instinctively, because there are indeed a lot of scum players who struggle to do that and it is very +town for them. i don't think it's about effort, it's about the process of sorting which is pretty different. most people haven't explained their reads on you, and i don't really feel like pushing them to do so - given most people townread you there is a zero chance you get eliminated today and people can just continue their process of posting however they want. i think often, not interfering with that gives you better reads - with the 'sorting' thing you keep mentioning, i am sorting in the way i do it. i ask questions if i find something that interests me, which i think is reasonably common; i think if there's nothing i want more detail about, asking things tends to be slightly worse because if people just... post whatever they want, it's more true to their instinctive motives which is easier to read for alignment. i think reading people's posts and deciding if things are towny and scummy is actively sorting

in terms of solving the game; i think particularly if you're town we think extremely differently and it will be difficult to like do a town jam session and get a perfect sweep, but we can certainly try. what about bell? you said he was town, right? in terms of struggling to read, he's the only truly 'neutral' read on my list, so it seems like a good choice

(my reads were certainly better when i made like 40 posts a game day but they were still bad enough that it was better for me to do things that would give the smarter people more information with which to solve the game)

this pretty towny:

It seems like a waste to be annoyed at your posturing. It just comes off as fake and it’s not like I’m not guilty of it as town.

and i think bell's recent readslist was like, very good, for multiple reasons

[yekaterina]

the rest is like, eh to me, like meta stuff says maybe town but unwilling to give much weight to that,

[yekaterina]

nothing stands out as particularly scummy,

[yekaterina]

the thing with regards to your laptop is the antagonizing thing again

which i don't want to townread that either like bell is obviously aware of it

[yekaterina]

aristeia smarter than me tho just unsure on her alignment as well

[yekaterina]

like the reads on both bell and datisi seem like, fine to me, maybe should believe in

[meowmeow]

255 is fine? arguably he's narrating his own feelings there which might be what ari is getting at but it's true that scum bell could easily have kept pushing datisi and started a 1v1 that people would roll their eyes at and townread him for posting or like, whatever. i guess he doesn't need to pull back there if he's scum and doesn't have anything else to push

having an actual read on sheep is something i sort of like and although i'm not sure if he feels like explaining, i do see how someone would get there

making fun of the laptop thing could be towny? it's the sort of thing i was townreading dunn for so maybe bell would disapprove of that read lmao

ari is smart but also playing 'sheep ari' sounds kind of not that entertaining and also if you take it far enough ari has less material to sort ppl with i think