Open 881 | Friends and Enemies | Postgame

[Bell]

I’m almost convinced that Katya thinks I’m scum because I have a dog avatar.

[Aristeia]

it is a cute dog

[Aristeia]

how familiar are you with superbowl's meta Bell?

[yekaterina]

like it felt to me like she was citing that game to say, 'look the things i am saying make sense, i am wary of it and everyone else should be too it just won this game' without actually taking anything from that game to apply here alignment wise

what do you think she would be able to apply from that game to here alignment wise? I don't think its really applicable to say one things is like another thing therefore ??? just because someone is skilled does not mean they will do the same thing.

general approach to things, how i might play as a scums, how those things might carryover here, if any of the things she is worried about with regards to me become stronger or weaker concerns based on what was present there,

like i'm not asking meowmeow to meta me as much as saying, since it seems she is already familiar with the game why is only application of that as like, a warning? i guess, something to be wary of, instead of something to derive alignment from

i wouldn't expect scum!me to do the exact same thing but i also wouldn't expect there to be no comparables

like what she's saying she is worried about here is mostly specific isolated interactions like with the 'yeah?' thing or with the 'honeypot' thing and i don't feel like they would be substantiated by meta to me

[Bell]

Not much. He’s always been on the periphery of games I’ve played with him. He’s fun to play with. I don’t think he’s done anything that warrants the number of votes he’s gotten.

But I could say the same for a number of players who should have a lot more votes but don’t. Game’s weird.

[Aristeia]

if you have time I guess you can read some of his past games and see what he looks like here?

[Aristeia]

it takes maybe like 10 minutes to skim his past 3 or 4 isos in completed games

[yekaterina]

idk i can't just start townreading everyone who pushes me at any point because they're unlikely to get me eliminated and they probably know that

it doesn't have to be a townread - there are spaces between townread and scumread. saying someone is scum for scumreading you but not pushing you lacks the motive? I think its somewhat unintuitive to scumread someone without pushing them but like I don't think it makes sense to say that it leans scum on average to do so?

well i'm not hard scumreading meowmeow, if that's what you're saying, like this

is

the space between townread and scumread to me

i think there is significantly more motive like much much more for a scums to scumread me than there is for a scums to hardpush me

like scums somewhat frequently do so i feel,

[Bell]

Regarding dog perspective. It’s complicated to explain but I’m usually working from a political perspective rather I entertain a lot of different perspectives including what I’d be doing as scum as town. Looking at trejectories of where players seem to be going etc.

Like “ boy, it sure would be funny if I was bussing here” or “I’d do this as scum, but I’m not, sucks”

I don’t really think that’s showing much this game though. So, I’d prefer you elaborate on specific examples if you can, Katya.

Like, as scum why am I hanging here and posting instead of just going off and enjoying my life. Nobody is going to think about that, even though it’s pretty AI for me.

I think I got spoiled by all the people that just instantly know I’m town within the first 30 pages. Alas.

[Aristeia]

well you're voting for her and pushing for her to be eliminated right? whereas she's not really doing the same to you?

I guess maybe we have different opinions about scum motivation and how meow would play scum because you think she would be like you and I'm not sure that would be the case.

[Bell]

Sure I can meta him, but have I ever told you my reads and accuracy are garbage?
Because I should probably have started with that.

[Aristeia]

I think I got spoiled by all the people that just instantly know I’m town within the first 30 pages. Alas.

do you think its weird that nobody has done that yet?

[Bell]

Std, mala both did that.
Dunn isn’t voting me, so I’m assuming he’s town reading me because he correct estimates that my scum game sucks.

But they’re also not super active. Unlike the Notsciences, or Cabd or ffyrlit’s of the world that will slap down people for looking at me cross when they think I’m town.

[yekaterina]

could be longer term thing like i backburner plenty of things like that as a scums i assume meowmeow does as well could be to because finds it an easier interaction axis could be to push things in opposition to me while not trying to eliminate me, like there are plenty of options and it's probably a combination of many if she's a scums

I don't think it makes sense to say because you do something as scum then someone else doing the same thing would also be scum - I'm not that familiar with meow's scum game but I don't recall her putting things to roast.

idk, that isn't like, even really a scum tactic it just feels like having a plan for the other slots as the game progresses which maybe i just assumed everyone does as a scums

hm, it's like, scums need a longterm plan especially in a game like this where maybe nightkills have to go places you otherwise would not want them to go et cetera et cetera

so like, base level let's all just townread yekaterina and then kill her maybe doesn't apply as it might elsewhere

but even in games without that aspect scums often enough scumread me

[Aristeia]

do you think any of them could be slotting you as town way too early ?

[Bell]

Dunnstral’s more quiet than I’m used to him being at deadline. It could be that he doesn’t like this game, but his circumstances have probably changed so it seems pointless to guess using ancient data.

[yekaterina]

So, I’d prefer you elaborate on specific examples if you can, Katya.

like just now with regards to dunnstral, i feel like you maybe feel similarly to how i feel regarding but are presenting it as something we should push

[yekaterina]

So, I’d prefer you elaborate on specific examples if you can, Katya.

like just now with regards to dunnstral, i feel like you maybe feel similarly to how i feel regarding but are presenting it as something we should push

which sure you could also be doing the 'i don't mean what i say' thing or whatever, so, shrug

[Aristeia]

I thought bell was joking about dunnstral tbh

[Bell]

do you think any of them could be slotting you as town way too early ?

Nope. I like being town read and scum them and town them are both going to slot me in early as town unless they want me rummaging around in their backyard looking for clues.

I’m not a perfect person. I omgus with the best of them. I know it’s unpleasant.

[yekaterina]

well you're voting for her and pushing for her to be eliminated right? whereas she's not really doing the same to you?

I guess maybe we have different opinions about scum motivation and how meow would play scum because you think she would be like you and I'm not sure that would be the case.

hm, if i am voting her and pushing for her to be eliminated and scum!her goes all in on doing the same

(which i would definitely not say i am all in here or anything currently reconsidering / your input is valuable to me et cetera)

but if scum!meowmeow does so do you think scum!meowmeow would think that'd be likely to have an outcome in her favour?

[yekaterina]

I thought bell was joking about dunnstral tbh

and also about sheepsaysmeep? and dunnstral's metaread of? et cetera et cetera

like i guess i don't understand the way bell is weighing such a thing as town yeah

[yekaterina]

but could also have otherother explanation and again! sigh dunno how to find scums here

[Bell]

In the best of fashions you’re both right.
It’s a joke because Dunnstral annoys me with his play style and when we first played together I pushed at him * a lot* to read him. So it’s like a policy. But I’ve kind of given up, I’ve told him before that I don’t think he’s very readable day one unless he engages more and he’s not bucking that trend here.

But in addition it’s usually just a good idea to push people. But I’m not clear why Dunn is missing here.

[Bell]

If a Dunnstral wagon ever materialized this game day one I probably would have been pointedly not defending him while pretending I’m just holding off but I think he might be scum, while not actually having a clue. Just to get a better read of him. My conclusions reached from whatever happened there I would have probably diminished confidence in just because I don’t actually believe any of my reads have any accuracy whatsoever.