Open 881 | Friends and Enemies | Postgame

[meowmeow]

oh we have 11 hours huh

i knew we were close-ish, but i thought there was more time than that

maybe the time for shadi super wagon does not really exist here

[Datisi]

i will be around for the entirety of those 11 hours READY to vote shadi

but yes i am not expecting it to happen but

[meowmeow]

and fwiw i think my reads are like

largely similar to the large post still?

like maybe i'd change a few things but i don't think i've flipped entirely on anyone since then

maybe that's bad but shrug i haven't felt many things that strongly recently.

i guess i would add shadi feels like hanging back more? and it's working in terms of the wagon attention isn't on him

[meowmeow]

personally i think dunnstral is town because he calls my post insightful and i want to believe people actually like my posts

[meowmeow]

every good girl needs a little thug

me and datisi

[meowmeow]

current vc is at

superbowl9 (5): Aristeia, Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Datisi, sheepsaysmeep
Datisi (3): Bell, yekaterina, superbowl9
meowmeow (2): Shadi1337, The Bulge
Doctor Drew (2): Malakittens, Dunnstral
Shadi1337 (1): meowmeow

[meowmeow]

would be interested to hear the sheepsaysmeep datisi case

i guess i should iso the wagons again but i imagine i'll just vote superbowl

superbowl should probably, like, claim btw

[yekaterina]

if superbowl9 is a scums datisi and aristeia town

if town ??? like so many players feel scummy in that situation and i guess that is part of why feels more likely right now

[petapan]

Vote Count 1.11

Teacher marks our height against the wall
Teacher marks our height against the wall

superbowl9 (4):

Save The Dragons, Doctor Drew, Datisi, sheepsaysmeep

Datisi (3):

Bell, yekaterina, superbowl9

meowmeow (2):

Shadi1337, The Bulge

Doctor Drew (2):

Malakittens, Dunnstral

Shadi1337 (1):

meowmeow

Not Voting (1):

Aristeia

With 13 alive, it's 7 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is August 22 at 6:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2023-08-22 18:00:00)

[yekaterina]

like sheepsaysmeep almost certainly not a superbowl9 partner either, dunnstral unlikely to be,

[yekaterina]

doctor drew unlikely to be had every opportunity to abandon cleanly

[yekaterina]

doctor drew unlikely to be had every opportunity to abandon cleanly

/ push elsewhere et cetera like why anyone feeling good about wagon at this point

[yekaterina]

realistically it’s what? superbowl9 + malakittens? or shadi1337? or the bulge?

ehhhhh

like not impossible but ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

[meowmeow]

peta calling me out for missing the ari unvote

i can respect that

[meowmeow]

why is superbowl even scumreading datisi

there's like one line about him being a late game detriment or something from about a week ago

[yekaterina]

Spoiler:

ok so reads wise, here are my takes on the players in this game :]

Datisi

ok first of all datisi always rolls scum. this is important if you believe in the gambler's fallacy, or its superior equivalent, anti gambler's fallacy, which holds that if someone keeps rolling scum they keep rolling scum. despite my making fun of him - which i hold to be fully justified in every way - he is actually a very good scum player and that needs to be kept in mind

146 feels +town to me. not sure exactly how to verbalise it, but it comes off as like, weirdly sheepy and lacking conviction, which i think is fairly +town because this stuff can just happen as a result of the game being hard as town; whereas scum datisi i think is good at creating options and it's more difficult to see how his thought process gets to the point where he thinks this is a good post to make.

182 is a bit ??? to me because it's like, why would you think i'm not ausuka? i told you i was making an alt in your discord DMs like a couple weeks before the game started and i don't think my posts are that different. i get being like 'oh i didn't think of that' but sheer shock is a bit strange. however unless someone told him beforehand i was ausuka it's probably not ai at all and idk how likely that is

does datisi try and pocket me and then call me stupid? maybe? i think he would know i wouldn't like that and i'm something of an emotional player so maybe it's slightly +town

as scum once, i pushed datisi because he townread someone pushing on him. i accused him of trying to defuse the situation. he was town in that game. i guess that is to say, i don#t really get what's so unnatural about the bulge read or why town datisi wouldn't make it

overall i lean town on datisi so far, i think

Aristeia

she flirts with datisi a lot. that's not ai it just makes me smile

i originally didn't like 206 because speculation about scumteams or whatever that doesn't involve a serious push on one of the people involved has always felt empty to me and makes me go :neutral: but also i can kind of see why she would find that datisi post a bit over-the-top so shrug

the read on bell in 389 is interesting. my instinct is to like it, and i can kind of see where she's coming from if town, even if i'm not sure i 100% get it - maybe partially because i lack context? but it's true that bell lacks bite in this game.

yekaterina

so, i don't think katya is town particularly, which i get is an unusual opinion to have. she was scum in the recently completed micro 1087 and just absolutely swept the game so i don't really think i should buy into the narrative that like, she's obvtown because she posts a lot of stuff that looks vaguely thoughtful. obviously if ppl have more specific reasons to townread her i'm happy to hear it; i don't think we should write off any reason to townread a capable scum player but i think a lot of the more common surface level reasons aren't that valid

obviously, i didn't like 167 - i mean i'm biased because like, it's me, and it did explain the post was trying not to give anything away but... meh, i'm just not a fan of the whole exchange

didn't really like 178 like 'you should expect i'll be obvious town' feels a bit like scum trying to be too cheeky to be scum. idk if that makes sense

i don't know if i need to go through the whole honeypot thing again. i'm not sure if anyone except me actually read that. but like, i basically just don't like how light of a wave katya makes towards shadi, not really doing anything there, and calling it a honeypot because after she did that, people wouldn't 'need' to talk to shadi and therefore anyone who does is probably scum? i think it's possible that there's some playstyle difference there because it is incredibly foreign to how i play mafia. but the thing that really got me is the idea that anyone pushing shadi is necessarily like, influenced by her push and being opportunistic, even though it wasn't really a push and was a light and noncommittal idea about how she doesn't really know who scum is. and it comes without really engaging with the reasons why they were doing that. i do still think there is some partner equity there but that's not important for now. of course, there's the whole deal where she doesn't like votes/wagons and that's obviously genuine but it is obviously also aware that a lot of people do not share this view. so like to review, she is asked who scum is, and instead of answering normally sets up a 'honeypot' except the honey attracts people that disagree with it about how wagons work, which she apparently doesn't want to discuss. not to mention she goes to great lengths to emphasise how much she does not really believe in this read which just seems... incredibly counterproductive to the entire purpose. and obviously if she's scum it's a rather intricate thing, but i really do not see the town thought process here, and i think it's a +scum thing to do.

and yeah idk that is basically my whole read on katya. even in her more recent posts, i still don't really understand it or where it's coming from at all in terms of what she's pushing people for and if she's town, what she's going for, who she might like to eliminate. i don't see the thought process behind any of it. but i think part of that *could* be that i play very differently. i mean, i townread it once before, but maybe that game i wasn't as cautious of being snowed; i should probably go back and check. i lean scum on katya right now

the bulge

the bulge. i vibed him as town early, just based on how he was sharing reads and stuff in what i perceived to be a relaxed way. i liked 223 a bit. and like, the superbowl wagon comments are just... could they be from scum? yeah. but i tend to like proactive stuff like this that shows care for the gamestate, understanding things and parsing them so you can read people, sue me.

281 and 283 i have more mixed feelings about. my instinct is to say that unreasonable isn't scummy and that i don't like the approach but after reading the conversation for a while i get what he's saying better? like, the 'reasonable' word stuck in my brain but i think it might just be a red herring because bulge is saying that he doesn't believe datisi's emotional reaction to the question is genuine because he doesn't seem to actually care about the question itself. which seems like a fairly towny line of thinking actually; it's engaging with the thread on something of a deeper level and i think it's something he's put thought into. if he's scum it's very good scumplay.

uh, his more recent posts are more content-free. i can kind of see the desire behind pushing superbowl/presumably the datisi vote is a continuation of earlier so whatever.

Bell

bell has a lot of posts which i don't take a lot out of. 292 is probably the first interesting post in the entire bell iso. i didn't think datisi's read was bad personally - and as i said, i've pushed him for that as scum before, so i don't want to townread this in itself, but at least it's like making observations and doing something?

i don't hate his counter push on ari? most of his poking and pushing seems to lack edge, in the sense he's not really trying to wagon people or push people at any point. in that sense, i agree with aristeia. i am totally unfamiliar with bell, but i don't really get the sense he's forcing himself to be here tho; he's just around, vibing, but not with a strong sense of purpose? and again, idk him or the meta here, but it feels unfair to pick on him for that when a lot of people feel the same or worse.

i think bell acting like my laptop breaking is some sort of mystery or whatever is weird but probably not ai. same w/ blockgate

overall? shrug, i don't really want to kill him today but i don't particularly think he's town either.

Doctor Drew

drew has kind of dropped off, unfortunately. i thought he was towny early on. as i say in 196 i think 186 is a likely townpost because it's counter-intuitive for scum drew to say that about std, unless he's actually scum with std i guess. i also see how someone would sus the datisi vote on drew, so that part is fine. and the scumread on me is fine, or even good; i get where it's coming from and how it would come to a towny thought process even if i don't agree.

however since then he has just been completely low energy? like he pushes datisi for a while, which is meh but whatever, and then he says the push is becoming less productive - yeah sure that makes sense - but he doesn't really follow through on it and totally deflates.

i think this balances out to a townlean; he's been towny enough that i have no interest in pushing him right now but that's not an iron strong read

Dunnstral

i guess it's not that hard to fake but i did like his early drew push? felt believable. i'm biased but i liked 308 because

he was agreeing with me

idk he was pushing me earlier and then called the shadi wagon good and agreed with my comment on ari which feels a bit like towny fluidity. i think the malakittens vote is good. overall, i'm not certain of it but i think dunnstral is town this game

Malakittens

a little background context; i am aware of the malakittens meta. she did some stuff in datisi's cafe and i thought she was probably town because of the meta. she was not town. therefore, i don't really care about the meta.

anyway, her posts are very social, which isn't inherently bad but she does seem to care about that even at the expense of scumhunting. i don't like 373; i'm not entirely sure what she's trying to say about bell, but it seems a lot more interesting than 'drew is always scum' - it just feels off to me in terms of thought process. she could easily be scum here. on the other hand, she is a cat, which gets points

shadi1337

well, i think shadi is the player i need to do this for the least, since i've explained my thoughts on him in some depth already. it could come from town but the townread on katya in 63 is probably what i expect scum to say here? saying he's 'not opposed' to voting datisi when asking bulge about his read feels kind of weird, in the sense i'm not sure why it's there and might be self-conscious. he doesn't like alts existing, which is actually the real reason i scumread him. the rest of these posts are a front. as i said, the read on datisi and me is *very* weird to me, and to me it shows a lack of care in solving the both of us which i dislike; i think you get to the conclusion he did if you very briefly skim datisi's post which town can do but if he's doing that, and still refers to the post to explain his decisions, it feels very very off to me.

and again, if he thinks sheep would 'definitely' be more investigative as town, it's just odd that he needs prompting to bring it up - i don't see the town thought process here really.

i think he was asked about it and didn't respond - the 'one scum' thing feels oddly specific. from his perspective, couldn't there be two? there could also be zero even if he's town but i acknowledge a lot of town players will think that is unlikely

the only thing i can really say in his defence is that if he's mafia, he's probably being bussed, because to me it doesn't really feel like they're trying to save him. and it can be difficult to tell between unmotivated town and unmotivated mafia sometimes; if you don't really care about your win condition, it's hard to tell from your actions what your win conditions is

Save the Dragons

i find std hard to sort. the push on datisi had vaguely good vibes, or at least i, uh... idk how to put it into words, but i think scum std makes the points from 327 without prompting more likely, and i think in general it could come from town easily and scum, like, could approach it this way but i'm not sure they would. think 415 is a believable read? the read would have been solidified if he had questioned me townreading him but shrug.

superbowl9

obviously, i didn't like 137; both the katya read and the ari thing felt rather empty to me, like just saying things to say things. the rest of his posts are equally empty. with 213 it's like... ok? is it scummy, because you're not really following up on it? i mean, none of it can't come from town, but there's rather a lack of anything interesting or towny in his posts and i'm not a fan of it. i guess to his credit most mafia players are better at pretending to do things, but some of the stuff he does looks like an *attempt* to contribute, i'm just not feeling it at all

sheepsaysmeep

sheepsaysmeep. i mean, he's bell's block buddy i guess, whatever that means? maybe they both live in california. well, i'd like him to elaborate on 297 because that post is just there and i'm not sure what the follow through is.

This is an insightful post; town points.

While I agree this definitely seems like a townie post, it is just a detailed list of reads.

What exactly do you find insightful? Especially when this is like 400 posts ago, her reads may have changed dramatically for all you know.

I don't think that their reads changing after this point changes whether it was an insightful post.

I think there are some good points in here. They have some interesting thoughts on yekaterina, I didn't realize they posted similar to this as mafia. Calling Mala's posts social seems right to me.

i… don’t post similar to this as mafia though at least not particularly based on the example and meowmeow isn’t arguing that i do like no comparison was actually presented or anything simply that i

could

because i won that game i guess

like all of your posting could certainly come from scum!you based on your scumgames, like if i look at team mafia i’m not going to reach the conclusion that your posts could not come from scum!you but they’re also not particularly similar to your posts here so what would be the relevance other than to say ‘beware!!! dunnstral is a competent player’ which yes, given, but if i’m not going to use that game to try to determine your alignment here what is the point?

and it’s also not a factor in her reads as her reads predate conclusion of that game and such so it doesn’t contribute to her thought process regarding me

[yekaterina]

why is superbowl even scumreading datisi

there's like one line about him being a late game detriment or something from about a week ago

superbowl9 has been scumreading datisi since push on ‘hyperposting’ thing, no?

[yekaterina]

which like, still think it was bad push on something that made sense

[yekaterina]

realistically it’s what? superbowl9 + malakittens? or shadi1337? or the bulge?

ehhhhh

like not impossible but ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

mayyybe bell?

[meowmeow]

didn't really get the vibe from his post that it was that, although i think it was a good push and even if he didn't think so there's no reason to sus datisi for it over me. something about "his posts aren't ai and will be a late game detriment" and then "not exactly why i'm voting you" and he hasn't really said anything more about it since, like, post 250.

[yekaterina]

didn't really get the vibe from his post that it was that, although i think it was a good push and even if he didn't think so there's no reason to sus datisi for it over me. something about "his posts aren't ai and will be a late game detriment" and then "not exactly why i'm voting you" and he hasn't really said anything more about it since, like, post 250.

i (sometimes but i was early in this game so applicable) include alot of my thought process in my posts therefore if i hyperpost it is easier to determine my alignment + nightkill factor which also relevant in this game for obvious reasons like there is a reason i am playing the way i am

don’t really see how either of you disagree with that on a base level or why that shouldn’t be something superbowl9 would point out

didn’t superbowl9 basically say it was that when voting the first time

[Datisi]

didn't really get the vibe from his post that it was that, although i think it was a good push and even if he didn't think so there's no reason to sus datisi for it over me. something about "his posts aren't ai and will be a late game detriment" and then "not exactly why i'm voting you" and he hasn't really said anything more about it since, like, post 250.

there's 994

i'm not sure what to think about it because, either i'm misundestanding what the word "backfooted" means or what. because i don't feel like i've been giving up pushes or anything? like sure i'm not screaming pushing someone but i've had scumreads i think they're fine i don't get it

and not sure what about my criticisms didn't make sense to him

[yekaterina]

didn't really get the vibe from his post that it was that, although i think it was a good push and even if he didn't think so there's no reason to sus datisi for it over me. something about "his posts aren't ai and will be a late game detriment" and then "not exactly why i'm voting you" and he hasn't really said anything more about it since, like, post 250.

there's 994

i'm not sure what to think about it because, either i'm misundestanding what the word "backfooted" means or what. because i don't feel like i've been giving up pushes or anything? like sure i'm not screaming pushing someone but i've had scumreads i think they're fine i don't get it

and not sure what about my criticisms didn't make sense to him

i think it generally means reactive instead of proactive

[meowmeow]

i don't think he said that while voting for the first time

i did kind of forget 994 so thanks datisi

[meowmeow]

i just really strongly disagree with the idea posting more = easy to read and typed out a whole post about it but unsure how productive this discussion is