Mini Normal 2309 | Finished!

[Yimmy]

ok i am inspired (last time i tried to make a content-post (1776) i got called an idiot (i am very mad about that) and then ignored but i feel like the worst will listen to me so that is why i'm inspired)
my understanding of the mass claim is that we came into this day with 5 of the living players being claimed pr's so people just kinda decided to rip off the band-aid. like it gives a little more information to the mafia if the last three of us claim vt but if one of us claims pr that gives town a better picture of the setup as a whole. i think it's a pretty solid trade-off. i never pushed for it though (i have been super checked out today)
i am going to iso rn now (i'm still putting off the cs iso cause, like, i feel like doing that would make it easier for a scum replacement in that slot. like i want brad to be forced to gain his own bearings cause i think we get a clearer image of the slot that way. idk)

[the worst]

yeah that's fair enough, it's better to give replacements some room to work through stuff especially if it's not endgame in my experience. dragging them through the replace in process causes a lot of confirmation bias and not much else.

what are your reads on slot alignments?

[the worst]

I can see my slot is voting iavh. That's fine, without knowing a damn thing about the game I would also vote Brad right now.

[the worst]

Ah OK I'm picking up what Bob is puttin down

I'm a vt

[the worst]

It's so funny to me that scum have a rolestopper and a doctor and that there's a jailkeeper in this set-up. like someone really did design this and be like "I would very much like a Moderator to have to decide how these interactions work".

[the worst]

First impressions readlist so I everyone can roast me post-game

tw
bob
yimmy
nurse
hu tao
naerys
iavh
dragons
brad

[Yimmy]

so i'm gonna be honest a lot of my reads right now aren't super deep. in fact i'm just gonna link 1767
the people i didn't have mech to work with are
std: town on vibes. i played a game with him once also. in another situation i would try to clarify those vibes but i haven't felt the need
iavh: town lean?? it is hard for me to get a grip on him
pc: pc's been really all over the place and i spent all day one trying to sort his play between "bad town" and "mafia". in the end i shelved it because sorting in the pr claims seemed smarter

[the worst]

Dragons is only low for me because I've seen 0 of his posts so far. I've just come out of a game where I epically misread his scumgame so I feel kinda confident rn.

[the worst]

uuhh iavh has something subtly tonally towny about him but yeah I think I want him to be town, more than I feel like he's town, honestly

I might need to be careful with vt reads because at this rate we're looking at a total of 4 vanilla townies in a normal game, there's actually a much higher than random chance that 2-3 of us are town

[the worst]

also wary the vt pool is a good place for the vig to hide since if they exist, they don't reeeeally need to claim today tbh

[the worst]

last but not least - did we get rn's result from n2?

[Yimmy]

there is only one scum left the worst. there's actually a 100% chance that at least 3 of us are town
brad/cs is claimed vig. would've been counterclaimed at this point i think lol
rn is claiming lazy so he got no result n2 (only one scum left)

[Random Nurse]

last but not least - did we get rn's result from n2?

No. Did you read my claim?

[the worst]

there is only one scum left the worst. there's actually a 100% chance that at least 3 of us are town
brad/cs is claimed vig. would've been counterclaimed at this point i think lol
rn is claiming lazy so he got no result n2 (only one scum left)

aha thanks! i had him down as novice in my brain.

last but not least - did we get rn's result from n2?

No. Did you read my claim?

no!

[the worst]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

[Yimmy]

Spoiler: very big. far too many quotes

Oh my! E-2 already?

Lack of resistance? Interesting!

VOTE: Unvote

What do you think it means?

It could mean he's Town!

Could.

so this is the first thing he said that's kind of a read, and it's the first instance of a pattern where he almost always makes his reads extremely non-commital. why does he need to emphasize the "could"? (as town, i don't know. as scum it reduces accountability)

1-shot

Bulletproof Miller, to be exact.

a little bit of time travel: look at 1771. that post shows that his claimed intention relies on the mafia believing his claim.

And yes, I AM a 1-shot Bulletproof Miller. This puts me in the unfortunate position of being able to waste one of Scum's NK, at the cost of being *guiltied* IF Copped, and Scum's best bet is to try to get the rest of Town to mis-lim me. Precarious indeed. If you're Town take note they will do their best to remove me from the board.

and with his claimed gambit in mind again, does a real person actually think it's a good idea to pull a gambit and then basically completely reveal your hand? like, i'm not getting it

Random Nurse

- Hard to read for me and claims to be a 1-shot Bulletproof Miller, his posts seem to lack a substance, honestly dont know what to think of him right now

Protip: perceived lack of substance does not a Scum make.

Be wary of creating your own blindspots.

another, less prominent pattern, is reminding other players to doubt their reads. in this case i actually think i'm reading it a little harshly. ugh.

Save the Dragons, are you Scum this game?

Why do you think he could be scum. You were both recently scum together, see any similarities?

I never said he *COULD* be Scum. I asked him point-blank if he *IS* Scum.

There's a difference.

How come he's scum?

OK, I just told you I didn't say he could be Scum: I asked him point-blank if he IS Scum.

So when you say "How come he's Scum?" when I JUST told you I never said he's Scum, is raising my eyebrow.

When you post MAKE SURE you're not twisting what I've actually posted. THAT is what I do Scumread, but I'm giving you the chance to understand what I actually said.

I don't get it? Why just ask, what's the point?

Why not?

Did it never occur to you to try it at times?

this interaction is bizarre. like rn asks a question with nothing behind it, hu tao charitably assumes there was some thought somewhere in it, and rn vehemently denies it. like "no actually i just asked that for no reason. crazy of you to think otherwise"

And regarding Hu Tao, precious little behaviors are actually Scum-indicative. ONE that I do mostly read as Scum-indicative is twisting what another player says, ESPECIALLY after it's been addressed. I'm trying to give Hu Tao the benefit of the doubt, and a chance to understand what I said, for him to not *misunderstand* what I said. Because I am 1-Shot Bulletproof Miller I'm playing in a VERY specific way to catch players trying to twist things.

and this is a bonkers characterization of it. like all things aside i think it's hard to paint a question as a means to twist someone's words, cause with a question you can just say "oh i didn't mean that"

I think you're the one overreacting. I'm just trying to understand the point of the post

No no, you asked he "How come he's Scum?"

That's ENTIRELY DIFFERENT from asking me what the point of asking another player point blank if they're Scum.

I DON'T KNOW if he's Scum or not. I want to gauge his reaction. GET OUT THE WAY.

??? how is this genuine?

{Civil Scum}

{bob3141} {iamveryhappy} {Greeting} {Bazuf} {Bellaphant} {Political Clout} {Save The Dragons} {Naerys} {Starfire} {KatyKimFanClub}

{Hu Tao}

*This'll continue updating quickly.

(it didn't continue updating quickly)

{Civil Scum}

{bob3141} {iamveryhappy} {Greeting} {Bazuf} {Bellaphant} {Political Clout} {Save The Dragons} {Starfire} {KatyKimFanClub}

{Hu Tao} {Naerys}

ok it updated a little i guess. anyway still extremely non-committal. 9 null reads (and we will see how he treats the few actual reads)

It's interesting seeing players getting wrapped up in discussion over game mechanics.

For Day 1 it's more important to gauge associations in my opinion. I have been extremely limited in my ability to play these last couple of days, and I am V/LA starting tonight: I'm not picking up any new games. This severe time restriction makes me an easy target for Scum, and being Bulletproof means Scum MUST either force my lim OR waste a NK.

How do you think Scum will react to this dilemma? If you are Town I URGE you to watch and see how players react to my claim. Scum has every reason imaginable to try shenanigans during the Day. Think of my claim as a radius around me: Scum that want me limmed will enter that radius—be vigilant. They won't want to waste a NK so their best option is to coordinate in their PT (I'm assuming they have one) and try to manipulate the rest of Town.

again completely revealing his hand. like the only outcome i see from this sort of post is scaring everybody, town or otherwise, out of pressuring his slot. why does town make this post?

I would note that KKFC has entered that radius.

i remember thinking it was weird how he singled out kkfc for 733 without any regard for my 621 (second quote) where i took, i think, a stance at least as strong and more clear. couldn't do anything with it then but now i can read it as distancing. hurrah

I'm torn on Hu Tao: earlier interactions made me think Scum, but his later comment in 726 makes me think Town? I hate not knowing.

had to make sure that it didn't look like he was actually committed to his hu tao read

Yimmy - I honestly think you just don’t like my style. There’s no way I could possibly defend myself against someone who thinks every post of mine is “bad”.

I kinda noticed this with him too when he just blanket wrote all those posts of mine as "bad." Uh huh OK dude.

this is a weird characterization of my 780 i think. discussed a little in 834. and what's the intention behind this post? this is basically the extent of him sorting me, and he isn't interested in engaging or producing content about it (cause he ignored 834)

...

Could it be Naerys and Greeting?

CS, what do you think? I think I Townread you more than most here, currently.

umm this is just here to capture his read progression i guess. he scumreads greeting now. like he never took a stance there, so sure. nothing behind the read as far as any reader can tell. just suddenly once greeting is one of the leading wagons he says "hmm maybe greeting is scum".

I've changed my mind again.

I want to lock town these people
Random Nurse - claim
Yimmy - clearly solving
Civil Scum - just a bad townie causing chaos
Political Clout - obvious town
Naerys - claim
KatyKimFanClub - interaction with nearys

lean town
hu tao - I can see them trying to solve
happy - gut read
dragons - gut read

poe scum is in any order
greeting
bella
starfire
bob

You're gonna put me in LockTown just because of my claim? Your reaction seems much different from the paranoia CS exudes in response to my claim.

he starts bothering people for believing his claim at this point. this after the whole thing about scum pushing him for his claim just starts to seem like he doesn't want people to engage with his slot

Also, please do explain to me your leap of faith.

As they say, the Devil is in the details.

It is very boring and very simple. Statistically you are probably town. paired with a miller claim gives you more town equity as I said before what gave me pause was the fact that you didn't claim immediately but eventually did claim miller toe the more I think about it the more I realize people play differently but ultimately you decided it was better for town to know your role very early in the game makes me believe you. Paired with the fact that if I just believe your claim the game gets a lot easier for me. And I do like easy.

You wouldn't be clever enough as Scum to do a "free-flow thought" post in order to look like sincere Town, would you?

...

.

.

what is this post? is it a read? it's nothing helpful

I think you place too much faith in other players, and that's dangerous—especially Day 1.

You don't seem to have healthy paranoia of Hu Tao or Naerys, which does make you look informed. Also you appear to have more faith than normal in my claim and, even though I AM Town, you wouldn't know that unless you were informed. Remember when I mentioned that radius and how Scum will approach and enter that radius to try and mis-lim me? I didn't mention that Scum will also enter that radius not to mis-lim me but to either buddy or Townlock me as well. Knowing they know my claim, I'm keen to see how players respond: makes it much easier to locate Scum. Oh, and trying to avoid/evade engagement won't work either.

again completely revealing his hand. like what's the point of a gambit that everyone knows about? how are people to respond to your claim? they can't dislike it, they can't like it, they can't ignore it? they are just supposed to say "ok" and never think about it again?
i fear i may be mischaracterizing this a bit. at the core i suppose is that his motivation for his posts is really hard to figure out

[Civil Scum] [iamveryhappy]

[Looker] [Yimmy] [Save The Dragons] [Starfire] [KatyKimFanClub]

[bob3141] [Political Clout]

[Hu Tao] [Naerys] [Bellaphant]

more reads progression ok

Note to self: start heavily suspecting any player that's too logical/friendly/agreeable with you.

Note to self: start heavily suspecting any player that's too logical/friendly/agreeable with you.

and me when I start making sense somehow after days of trolling

So the above two posts are in the Dead PT of a now-completed game. In that game as Town you were trolling and got mis-limmed Day 1. In this game you're not trolling/goofing off, but making sense. Your comment in that Dead PT makes me think you're Scum this game.

VOTE: IAVH

oh so he's willing to immediately vote his top townread. guess that reads list two posts ago was completely non-commital

OK, so, I looked at Greeting's ISO and got a nagging guy feeling.

VOTE: Civil Scum

oh his other top townread. based

With there being a doctor and a cop that was flipped, I buy RN role claim and them being town.

Your lack of skepticism is both awe-inspiring and unnerving.

again giving people crap for believing his claim. ugh. maybe this does line up with his weirdo gambit. i am upset

So your out of RVS now. As the game stands where do you feel your actual vote would be most placed. Even if you strongest reads is null scum.

I’m in no rush to decide my vote yet. What I can say as of now is that I have weak townreads on

KatyKimFanClub

and

iamveryhappy

.

When pressured to give a read he gave this. Could be possible 1 of these 2 are scum.

I'm more inclined to think Greeting was just putting out weak reads: it would be ballsy to place both of his teammates there if one of them also flip red. I'm thinking that's more a red herring.

What are some other associatives from that slot I may have missed?

kinda into stuff i've already discussed, but like, this is as committal as a read from him gets and it's to discount an associative that was evidently valid (greeting and kkfc were partners

VC 1.09

Votecount 1.09

Greeting (3):

Political Clout, Save The Dragons, Naerys

Starfire (3):

Bellaphant, Hu Tao, iamveryhappy

Hu Tao (2):

Starfire, Greeting

Political Clout (2):

bob3141, Civil Scum

Naerys (1):

Random Nurse

Bellaphant (1):

KatyKimFanClub

Not Voting (1):

Yimmy

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is currently frozen at 48 hours, pending replacement for Greeting.

here we have kim on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

here we have bob on greeting counter wagon earlier in the day

So we're Bellaphant, Hu, and IAVH, so...?

randomly discrediting a normal post

Bob maybe

Hu seems townish

CS seems town

IAVH could be scum

I need to wait for more posts today to get a feel for the arcs

Let's put aside the hostility and senseless claim-wailing.

Have you played with IAVH before. Yes or no?

Yes

OK.

When you played with Town IAVH, what was his play/demeanor like?

like we know there is no depth to this read. he just saw iavh make one post in a dead thread and said "oh this is good meta". why ask questions like this?

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

Same for CS

As for CS, I suspect he's likely bullshitting a claim in response to MY claim.

Now the question is IF he's bullshitting a false claim as Town, why? To bait Scum's NK?

If we're at, say, Day 4 and there's still only been one NK each night yeeaah, then I'd be asking questions, perhaps sooner, like Day 3.

ugh i guess it is more believable that he wants to draw the nightkill for no reason if he is willing to consider that someone else might be doing the same thing

Also, if Naerys somehow survives until end-game as a 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper and somehow hasn't been targeted at all for a NK, be smart and ask why.

doesnt really matter as we execute kim, they flip scum.

Nearys says who they will target goign into n2. e.g. happy. no death that inst climed by vig. Then happy is scum. if 2 nk then happy is confirmed town on nearys flip

For ONE a claimed JK shouldn't be announcing their targets. Mafia has more than one member, so they'll just shift the knife to their other hand.

not if they only have one hand.

i was in this situation before were i became a oneshot cop when scum were 2 down and i was roleblock role. i was nk but it forced them to narrow down poe

...

What do you mean?

It's already been confirmed the Scum team has 3 members.

i actually am not sure this was confirmed (maybe it was idk. didn't feel like verifying. just following my heart)

The problem is my main suspects rn are 3 - bob, hu tao and iavh

I'll tentatively say I'm Townreading you.

I'm probably getting pocketed, though. It's a comfy pocket.

Where's your vote on Bob?

ok more making a read and then reminding everyone that it is not commital

I don't like this apprehension, IAVH.

ohhh yeah it would be weird if someone was apprehensive. like if they said how paranoid they were every other post and then everytime they said a read they said "but maybe not". that would be weird i think (this is how rn is playing. very apprehensive)

how many shots

its anti town to ask what my exact gating is. My neighbour knows and im prob be the nk now. As gunsmith in this setup is defacto cop with dann and lookers flip.

looker means i get inno with my results and dann means i get guitys

rather than inno or scum doc
and guilty or cop

huh. I'm just asking so we get a better grip of where we are. As you said, you're probably going to die tonight, so what's wrong with telling us?
@Random Nurse why do you want a vote on kkfc by me that fast, I'd like to use my brain.
I don't wanna do stuff quickly and get it wrong, but rather do it slowly but right.

Because I'm looking to see who's hesitant and resisting voting for a Gunsmith guilty. KKFC literally just got caught in a lie claiming Rolestopper to Bob the Gunsmith. Those who are scared of voting KKFC start pinging on my Scumdar.

after repeatedly saying how weird it is for people to believe his own claim, that he made, he gives a lot of credence to bob's claim. like i seem to recall something like "You don't seem to have healthy paranoia of Hu Tao or Naerys, which does make you look informed." and rn did have a lot of paranoia around bob, up until exactly the moment bob claimed a guilty. then he was a lot less paranoid for some reason

tl;dr all of his reads are extremely non-commital and he spends a lot of time randomly casting doubt on other people's reads. he also bothers anyone who puts any attention on his 1-shot bp miller claim, like he just wants to fly completely under the radar (in line with very non-commital reads). sure he hasn't tried to fly under the radar d3 but i think that's just because trying to fly under the radar just isn't wise when you are the last scum. his positioning around bob's gunsmith guilty on kkfc is also weird. i did not go into d3 because i've already talked about that pretty much
i am maybe not 100% sold. i could buy cs scum too so i will maybe not push to end the day until i give that a fair iso. also if brad refuses to cooperate we can just lim him, whatever

[iambrad]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you here

[Hu Tao]

VOTE: the worst

Soz

[the worst]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you here

hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?

VOTE: the worst

Soz

i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me

[the worst]

from a solve perspective i'm, like, ~aware~ people are incorrect bc i think my slot is the largest wagon. if i'm on the block today, i'd like to be a bit more comfortable than i am. i'm also pretty good at solving so i think there's merit in not compromise?-liming me in f9 the same day i replace in.

please don't take this as AtE. it's really not. just putting it out there, there's very little i can do to fight this lim and i just do not think i have the time to advance my solve spectacularly.

[iambrad]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you here

hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?

VOTE: the worst

Soz

i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me

yes i am killthestory. we talked on discord some time ago, but i deleted the app and went mia on everything for a while. sorry about that :p.

happy to see you though! didn't know you even still played on mafiascum.

from a solve perspective i'm, like, ~aware~ people are incorrect bc i think my slot is the largest wagon. if i'm on the block today, i'd like to be a bit more comfortable than i am. i'm also pretty good at solving so i think there's merit in not compromise?-liming me in f9 the same day i replace in.

please don't take this as AtE. it's really not. just putting it out there, there's very little i can do to fight this lim and i just do not think i have the time to advance my solve spectacularly.

this is essentially where i'm at.

[the worst]

bob3141 - absolutely town
Hu Tao - i really like hu tao for town & trust bob to get this read right
Random Nurse - uhhh tone thing idk
iamveryhappy - whom
Yimmy - total surface read but i like what yimmy is putting down here, doesn't really feel safe, so i don't want to go there.
iambrad - i'll decide after a claim we're not killing a claimed vig
the worst - clearly town smh
Save The Dragons - i am somewhere in the middle about dragons, and i think he becomes easier to solve once we're past the mechanical bottleneck of this phase (which, selfishly, is when i think i add the most value)
Naerys - should be jailkeeping the most epically null vt tonight for a soft-clear


i actually think yimmy is kind of on point. we have 2 flipped scum power roles (looker/kkfc), one pretty powerful flipped town power role (dann), 3 claims of reasonably strong power roles (bob, iambrad?, naerys), hu tao is some flavour of neighbour, random nurse is a mid-strength pr who is a named townie atp. we have 4 claimed vt (happy, yimmy, dragons, myself). normal setups require at least 1 vt, and (in my experience) have a tendency to prefer the highest number of VTs/unclearable TPRs possible while still balanced.

from a setup perspective, i wouldn't be shocked if all of the VT claims are town but that's also far from convincing!

we're also in f9, probably have 4 more lims, so i can see the merit of steering towards hitting VTs at the moment. i just feel very odd not having a handle on the game.

[the worst]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you here

hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?

VOTE: the worst

Soz

i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me

yes i am killthestory. we talked on discord some time ago, but i deleted the app and went mia on everything for a while. sorry about that :p.

happy to see you though! didn't know you even still played on mafiascum.

oh dude nice to see you again!! i haven't seen you around forever, yeah, welcome back to MS

i've been a little inactive on the mafia side lately, just lurking around the discussion forums. i'm never too far from MS lol.

[iambrad]

now i have. damn that's a good role.

dude what's up long time no see. happy to see you here

hey nice to see you too! i'm really sorry, were you on another account when we met?

VOTE: the worst

Soz

i hope ur apologising for not working on reads w me & not for voting me

yes i am killthestory. we talked on discord some time ago, but i deleted the app and went mia on everything for a while. sorry about that :p.

happy to see you though! didn't know you even still played on mafiascum.

oh dude nice to see you again!! i haven't seen you around forever, yeah, welcome back to MS

i've been a little inactive on the mafia side lately, just lurking around the discussion forums. i'm never too far from MS lol.

i decided to peek in on mafia forums and in record time got completely tilted last night. i wasn't even planning on playing out the rest of this, but i'm totally down to work with you on solving this. are you doing a full reread or just skimming / reading eods?

also my slot may be claimed vigi, but i'm just a vt. me & you are in essentially the same spot gamestate wise despite the fact that you could be mafia or not. not really the biggest difference though

[the worst]

cool. i think it may actually be in town's best interest to stop talking about power roles at this point honestly.

i don't think i'll do the full read - kinda trying to whittle down a POE i like the look of then doing ISOs i guess?

i'm down to jam about stuff too, you & yimmy have both got me surprisingly motivated for a VT game where i'm probably about to be lim'd
VOTE: nurse placeholder vote