Open 883 - Swinger's Hall

[Dannflor]

I didn’t because i had 20 seconds while my partner was in the bathroom to check my mafia games

Whatever

[Klick]

I also have trouble believing Dann actually thinks you E-1'd click when the VC is in the previous post

So you'd sooner think he faked thinking it was E-1 when the VC is in the previous post

You also think Drew 'can't count' instead of faking putting me at E-1

I think you form suspicions based on other subconscious things that bother you and then justify them using what you write in your posts

[Klick]

Like when Drew said it was E-1 I also just took him at face value until I saw Ari's post

[Klick]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

The meta I used in Boons Ahoy was correct, I had a misread in that particular game but my analysis matched your behaviour

I dont think you're actually thinking about my alignment beyond 'I want Klick eliminated' and are, as you say, 'talking out of your ass'

[Klick]

Goodbye Klick

Ali if you're town stop throwing and use your vote to push Drew-scum through
You don't have to engage further but put your vote on a scum slot

[Aristeia]

I also have trouble believing Dann actually thinks you E-1'd click when the VC is in the previous post

So you'd sooner think he faked thinking it was E-1 when the VC is in the previous post

You also think Drew 'can't count' instead of faking putting me at E-1

I think you form suspicions based on other subconscious things that bother you and then justify them using what you write in your posts

yes if something feels off I try to figure out if it's off because they are mafia and I explain why I feel that way. That's how I play the game.

[Dannflor]

k I think Ari is Just Town

I think she’s tended towards being uncharitable this game, largely to myself, Klick, and Cakez. And while I think that’s usually a considered a general scum tell, I think it might be a town tell for Ari. Especially if I am to trust self-meta, she told me in Friends and Enemies that she tends to be a lot nicer as scum, and I think the way she has interpreted several of my posts indicates town who is super deep in their reads. Like, I kinda would expect scum!Ari to be just a little more charitable and reasonable while she was pushing me.


I also think there’s like this huge tone thing that imo tends to be very hard for scum to pull off convincingly. And that’s this like “if u shitpush me i will be merciless” thing that Ari has going on in 111. Like Ari is so fed up for so much of this game and I… really believe it. It bleeds through in so much of her posting and especially the recent “you’re not that town” to Klick in 378 and 381 feels like it comes from a town perspective. I just don’t think it’s natural for scum to talk to a townie like that. Specifically, I don’t think it’s super natural for Ari to like so heavily blame Klick for not being towny as scum. It makes a lot more sense coming from a town perspective and is consistent with her tone across the rest of the game.

******

Anyway, Aristeia. I think you are being uncharitable and you are tunneling the wrong slots.

“but maybe she rolled a really hype scum team that would suck” was a funny line that I threw into my post not because it was a genuine worry, but because I was trying to hypothesize which scenarios might cause Ausuka to come off as so relaxed and not needing to control the gamestate and that came to mind. It wasn’t like I genuine fear I have, it was just something that popped into my head and I thought it would be a funny addendum thought to add on to my post. You read it completely straight but hopefully that gives some insight.

All of those posts were me an hour before dinner stream of consciousnessing no filter all the vibes i felt about each slot. I was having fun just light solving and blasting through my vibe reads. I know it’s a lot of hedgy shit. Do you really think I go through and hedge on almost every single read as scum?


You also said somewhere I’ve been wanting to kill Klick for like 2 days. I guess technically I’ve had my vote on Klick but I pretty much had changed my mind on his slot when I said I’s rather Sir Cakez and someone else should get blown up in 248 and I haven’t even really been around since then. So I mean I guess technically I’ve been voting klick since the start of the game but it isn’t like I’ve been hard pushing for him to die today for a long time.

Idk if that’s helpful to you at all but I urge you to like reread or reset because I am town and I really really think Klick is town now

I’m also like increasingly very sure Drew is mafia and honestly yessiree is a good shout too

I’ll case these reads next

[Dannflor]

VOTE: rh9

He's like 90% town

This is one of the first posts that had me rethinking Klick and I think it goes with the whole “not really being super careful” thing I was talking about earlier.

I don’t know I think hard town reading your partner so early in this setup is a scary thing to do as scum because you are going to be self conscious about being seen as pockety and/or survivalist. The wording on this is like super strong too, it just feels bold and in a way scum would tend towards being more careful about

I think there’s a difference between “being careful” in the sense of not sharing thoughts that aren’t fully formed and “being careful” in the sense of caring about how you are perceived and what stances you take

Like try your best to look at his read progression on you

Look at how sloppy that would be as a scum progression

He goes from like null to null scum to hard town in almost no time at all

Scum don’t construct their read progressions like that tbh, they make a clear trajectory through the thread and post mark it so that people can see it makes sense and town read them for it

[Dannflor]

His RVS push explanation also makes sense to me

It makes a lot more sense to me as town forcing something for content than scum forcing something for an elimination

Like having skimmed a couple of Klick’s other games, I think he’s a reasonable enough player and his rvs joke push does not come off as super reasonable. His explanation for it also tracks with how his response to me and yessiree is to interrogate our thoughts instead of try to build or explain a case on Ari

[Dannflor]

I think his most recent posting is super towny too tone wise but infinity already covered that

[Dannflor]

VOTE: aristeia
her posting doesn't feel natural

You could be right, actually.
VOTE: Ari

I also kinda think RH9s posting is super pure too

This type of hop on just feels so unlikely if Ari is town and RH9 is scum

Like it just feels way too easy and I think scum would make themselves sick before making a post like this. It’s much more believable as a townie who is just figuring things out and sees something in thread they like

I don’t really know how to explain this further because it’s almost entirely a tone read but I find RH9s recent questions pretty pure too. I just feel like he’s trying to figure the game out and he isn’t concerned with looking town while doing it

It’s for this reason that RH9 and Klick is my most town read pair and I really really really really do not want them elimmed today

[Dannflor]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

Meanwhile, I just feel like Drew is becoming more and more obvious scum.

For me, the telling line here is “factually incorrect.”


If Drew was town here and found a factual inconsistency in Klick’s read, I think Drew would question him on it first or at some point consider a world where Klick is wrong!town. But here, it looks like Drew went into this interaction wanting Klick to be scum. I think this is further evidenced be his post where he accuses Klick of ascertaining Drew as scum despite him being frozen out of the game in 334. Drew sees this as an inconsistency and as such Klick must be scum for it.

Drew just seems so fixated on logical inconsistencies and factual correctness and experience says that mafia are way more likely to fall back on those arguments because it feels like the strongest tool they have. It is way easier to push a miselim because of inconsistencies in a townie’s read (because townies are inconsistent all the time) than it is because of a townie’s tone.

I don’t think Drew actually seems interested in determining Klick’s alignment. He seems more interested in burying Klick under his perceived inconsistencies

[Dannflor]

I find yessiree’s play here scummy too. I wouldn’t be surprised if both flipped red although it’s probably most likely that only one flips red.


148 doesn’t feel like a real town thought. I think the laughy face is just a little too self conscious and honestly i have a little theory that it betrays Drew and Yessiree as a scum/scum pair and yessiree is consciously or subconsciously trying to sew doubt about that idea


149 idk maybe just because it uses a lot of buzz words but I have a hard time seeing this as a real town thought either


I find the read on Ari in 304 a bit level 0 and a bit pockety for that reason

There is no consideration for why a scum player might play with a ton of aggression out of the gate (hint: a ton do!) and I think writing off Ari as town, who is clearly a skilled player, with this reasoning alone feels like a fake read

I am less confident on this than Drew but I think it’s a good flip too so I want this pair today like a lot

[Dannflor]

Anyway i really really really do not want to flip klick rh9 i think that’s town - town

I reslly really really really eeally want to flip drew - yessiree i think that’s town - scum at least but with good chances of lf being scum - scum even

Please and thank you

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alimeuh

[Klick]

I'd be alright with pairing Drew and Ali?
I'd probably prefer just Drew and yessiree but like ideally we just nuke those three + Ydrasse and have at least 2 scum

[Ausuka]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

Meanwhile, I just feel like Drew is becoming more and more obvious scum.

For me, the telling line here is “factually incorrect.”

If Drew was town here and found a factual inconsistency in Klick’s read, I think Drew would question him on it first or at some point consider a world where Klick is wrong!town. But here, it looks like Drew went into this interaction wanting Klick to be scum. I think this is further evidenced be his post where he accuses Klick of ascertaining Drew as scum despite him being frozen out of the game in 334. Drew sees this as an inconsistency and as such Klick must be scum for it.

Drew just seems so fixated on logical inconsistencies and factual correctness and experience says that mafia are way more likely to fall back on those arguments because it feels like the strongest tool they have. It is way easier to push a miselim because of inconsistencies in a townie’s read (because townies are inconsistent all the time) than it is because of a townie’s tone.

I don’t think Drew actually seems interested in determining Klick’s alignment. He seems more interested in burying Klick under his perceived inconsistencies

Idk if I agree with this tbh

I think if someone pushes you for reasons you think are bs/made up it's pretty normal to push back against that

[Ausuka]

I'm not actually familiar with boons ahoy or the meta btw and if drew isn't correct about it maybe he is just trying to scumread klick etc

Maybe i should read his iso from that game

[Ausuka]

Dann is there a reason you think my reaction to a hype scum team would be 'relaxed' rather than 'excited' or something

[Infinity 324]

dann is town I think

[Dannflor]

Dann is there a reason you think my reaction to a hype scum team would be 'relaxed' rather than 'excited' or something

No not really

Like I said it wasn’t something I was seriously entertaining

[Dannflor]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

Meanwhile, I just feel like Drew is becoming more and more obvious scum.

For me, the telling line here is “factually incorrect.”

If Drew was town here and found a factual inconsistency in Klick’s read, I think Drew would question him on it first or at some point consider a world where Klick is wrong!town. But here, it looks like Drew went into this interaction wanting Klick to be scum. I think this is further evidenced be his post where he accuses Klick of ascertaining Drew as scum despite him being frozen out of the game in 334. Drew sees this as an inconsistency and as such Klick must be scum for it.

Drew just seems so fixated on logical inconsistencies and factual correctness and experience says that mafia are way more likely to fall back on those arguments because it feels like the strongest tool they have. It is way easier to push a miselim because of inconsistencies in a townie’s read (because townies are inconsistent all the time) than it is because of a townie’s tone.

I don’t think Drew actually seems interested in determining Klick’s alignment. He seems more interested in burying Klick under his perceived inconsistencies

Idk if I agree with this tbh

I think if someone pushes you for reasons you think are bs/made up it's pretty normal to push back against that

I don’t necessarily have a problem with drew pushing klick by itself

But before even the meta case it felt like Drew had decided he wanted to scum read klick

And there’s just like not a single other aspect of Klick’s play or really the game at large that I feel drew is really engaging with

[Jingle]

~Vote Count 1.3~

RH9 - Klick: yessiree, Ydrasse, Doctor Drew, Alisae,
yessiree - Doctor Drew: Klick, Dannflor,
Aristeia - Infinity 324: Meuh,
Ydrasse - Ausuka: Infinity 324,
Meuh - Alisae: Ausuka,
SirCakez - Dannflor:

KEEP DANCING! : Aristeia, RH9,

Not Voting: SirCakez,

Everyone is here to DANCE!

Day one ends in (expired on 2023-09-20 00:00:00). At the end of that time, RH9 and Klick will be ejected violently from the Dance Floor. DANCE, I SAY, DANCE!

[Doctor Drew]

@Infinity

From my experience (or at least my memory of meta-ing him recently) Drew aims to seem relaxed as scum, and kind of doesn't really come off that way naturally when he's town

Plenty of things can affect how relaxed someone is/wants to present as, but I at least want to flag that appearing relaxed is entirely within Drew's scum range/how he would consider approaching a scum game

How relaxed was I in Boons Ahoy? I assume this is the meta you were referring to.......or Fire and Fire, was scumDrew relaxed there?

You literally are talking out of your ass and speaking factually incorrect. The irony being here is that I am not relaxed anymore lol.....Klick tried to use meta to say I was town in Boons Ahoy, ironically helping me and the scum team win. I find it hard to believe that they would use meta to make a scum case for me KNOWING that they were wrong about it before......or at least offering the caveat that they were were wrong once before(I think that is the key before, if I am wrong about someone once I will admit that I have been wrong when giving a read such as klick did).

Bottom line, and say all 'OMGUS'.......klick is telling the story that they want to tell, not the actual story that is legit.

VOTE: Klick/RH

I believe that is E-1 if I can count lol

Meanwhile, I just feel like Drew is becoming more and more obvious scum.

For me, the telling line here is “factually incorrect.”

If Drew was town here and found a factual inconsistency in Klick’s read, I think Drew would question him on it first or at some point consider a world where Klick is wrong!town. But here, it looks like Drew went into this interaction wanting Klick to be scum. I think this is further evidenced be his post where he accuses Klick of ascertaining Drew as scum despite him being frozen out of the game in 334. Drew sees this as an inconsistency and as such Klick must be scum for it.

Drew just seems so fixated on logical inconsistencies and factual correctness and experience says that mafia are way more likely to fall back on those arguments because it feels like the strongest tool they have. It is way easier to push a miselim because of inconsistencies in a townie’s read (because townies are inconsistent all the time) than it is because of a townie’s tone.

I don’t think Drew actually seems interested in determining Klick’s alignment. He seems more interested in burying Klick under his perceived inconsistencies

Idk if I agree with this tbh

I think if someone pushes you for reasons you think are bs/made up it's pretty normal to push back against that

I don’t necessarily have a problem with drew pushing klick by itself

But before even the meta case it felt like Drew had decided he wanted to scum read klick

And there’s just like not a single other aspect of Klick’s play or really the game at large that I feel drew is really engaging with

That is simply not true.

I even said fairly early on that I didn't understand the issue people were having with Klick.

I also engaged with Ari about her no Lim plan quite a bit.

I am only engaging Klick with the meta read because then calling me scummy made no logical sense. And it took me pushing them to explain that it was meta, yet the only time I have been scum with Klick my play was so much different, like objectively you can't call it the same as here. And Klicks responded by saying I could always change my meta. Also seems a bit odd that Klick would say they were reading up on my meta recently, why me exactly?

So who exactly decided they decided they wanted to scum read whom before this all began??

[Doctor Drew]

Also I should say that I am not necessarily opposed to being limmed, I kinda feel Yess slipped in our PT but they have been MIA both there and here so couldn't, ahem....engage with them so I dunno.