Open 885: Backup6 [Game Over]

[iamveryhappy]

tops

[Black]

feels svt

Can you elaborate?

[iamveryhappy]

feels svt

Can you elaborate?

*asks gut*
gut can't speak

[Generic]

My gut told me ‘grrrrrrrrr’

So I think my gut could be one of the wolves we are looking for

[Aureal]

I'm glad you're not feeling too distressed by it then, but I would still like to try to yeet scum. I don't feel like this is very likely to accomplish that. Generic seems to be pretty ego-driven, with his fixation on "oooh hoo, I'm gonna catch the one who hasn't been caught!"

What are your thoughts on players not named Generic and Black?

Still happy with my vote on CCGeek.

Really exasperated with Dunn's vote on you. Like, he opens with acknowledgement that your posting style has you use words expressing uncertainty a lot, then is concerned because you used a question mark on something that wasn't a question. Then the very next sentence is also an acknowledgement that he doesn't think you're a confident player. COME ON MAN Then he basically just goes "this is a good point" a couple times and calls something a false dilemma and scum indicative. I'm not even sure what he's referring to there because it's replying to Dannflor and trying to read Dannflor's wallposting about you is just MAKING MY EYES ROLL OUT OF MY HEAD with how ridiculously he's acting with all the "town Black should've thought about things better" crap.

Why isn't happy doing anything? Weird. If scum has been off your wagon I would guess him over Snivy.

[iamveryhappy]

MY NAME IS NOT HAPPY

[Aureal]

Okay, iam, why aren't you doing anything?

[Black]

I quite like this post from Aureal but I can't tell if I'm biased because she's so sweet and good to me, or if she really does feel town

I agree that Dunn's post was weird. I guess I just don't understand the wolf motivation behind half defending me and half pushing me. I feel like he would do one or the other as scum

Iavh feels different this game than other games I've played with him. He's clearly keeping up with the thread but he's not offering little anecdotes and opinions like he normally does. Only when called upon does he show up and even then he still doesn't do much. I guess there could be outside influence or something but maybe Iavh finally rolled scum on MS lol. I don't like how he's refusing to take a stance on me/Generic. I think calling us svt with no elaboration is an easy way for him to decide to push one of us depending on which way the breeze blows

I still got nothing on Snivy tbh. CCG probably needs a prod at this point

@Aureal, do you have anything on T3? I've been going back and forth with this slot

[Black]

Iavh's iso leaves so much to be desired. There's zero content here in 3 days

[Generic]

MY NAME IS NOT HAPPY

Which dwarf are you then?

[iamveryhappy]

MY NAME IS NOT HAPPY

Which dwarf are you then?

call me iavh.

[Dannflor]

We should still kill Black today.

For one thing, we have two vanilla townie claims. I'd really prefer not to run up another player and out a PR if we think there is scum in either of these two claims. And I do. Looking at the claims, I think the the way Generic did it, as kind of a self-righteous taunt towards Black, probably comes from town. It throws away a powerful play by mafia for no reason to out PRs and Generic wasn't in a position where he was facing any pressure. It's a bad play, to be sure, but I think he's town for it.

On the other hand, Black didn't even explicitly claim.

so you were cool with being patient and letting the day play out until i pushed you, now suddenly you call for thunderdome and are rallying everyone to vote?

yeah, Generic is probably just scum here.

i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway

In this post, Black betrays that she is not a TPR by saying she's fine with dying. The problem is, I think if Black was actually town she'd think about the ramifications of claiming here. Why did she say the bolded line? I think the purpose is to seem like she doesn't care about dying and so that people will read that as town.

Why does being at e-1 mean Black should be eliminated first? Why is she actually okay with going first as town? As I've been told, Black is *not* a confident player in her scum and town reads as town. So, why now is she so confident that she is willing to trade her own life on this read?

====================================================================

To be clear,

@Aureal

, I don't scum read Black because "town Black should've thought about things better" or however you are representing my read. In fact, it's kind of the opposite.

A lot of Black's posting this game is focused around *looking town,* not being town. I would expect posting more in line with this game: viewtopic.php?t=90662&user_select%5B%5D=36961 if Black were town. Where Black is pretty unfiltered, her posts are on the shorter side, she asks probing questions, posts half baked thoughts... etc. That seems to be Black's town game from what I've researched about her meta.

That is not the same as her posting this game. Her posting this game feels overwrought and LAMIST.

Here are some quotes from a previous scum!Black game: viewtopic.php?p=13681045&f=11&t=90607&u ... #p13681045

Spoiler:

I'm not seeing the harm at putting someone at e-2. Let's assume all town votes are on the wagon. Do we really think the wolves will come through and quick hammer that? And if we assume there is one (or even two) wolves on the wagon already then townies coming through to hammer is also very unlikely

Sometimes putting someone at e-2 is good for reactions and to see how other players interact with that game state. Especially if you think that person's entrance was more likely to come from a wolf than a townie

A pretty LAMIST post in that it focuses on showcasing how Black cares so much about reactions and scumhunting, while not actually adding any content related to the game at hand.

I agree Delta. But what I find weird is that you don't consider my actions as trying to get out of RVS. I don't really like the phase so I tried to advance the game with 19, 23, and 31

As far as relying on meta, I'm not. I was just explaining why I didn't agree that Human was acting scummy

Another post where Black tries to create the narrative that she is trying to advance the game. scum!Black seems to care a lot about *looking* town.

I'm comfortable voting kawaii atm but I don't want to put them at e-1 because I don't think we should end the day any time soon. I still want to hear more from Arko

Another post where Black very explicitly spells out that she wants to do the *pro-town* thing. I don't think town!Black would actually care to be this explicit. She could just say that she's scum reading kawaii but doesn't want to e-1 yet. The "I don't think we should end the day any time soon" part is only there for Black to look more town.

I guess the best way to summarize the way I am reading Black's meta.

scum!Black cares about getting town read, and she posts stuff that she thinks will get her town read.

town!Black seems to care quite a bit less about getting town read and more about solving the game (this is probably why she gets scum read more as town than as scum )

In post 137, Brian Skies wrote:
I feel comfortable townreading this slot. Their posts feel genuine to me and I can vibe with their analysis.

I throw out these exact same generic TRs when I'm wolf. Like all the time

Also, here's an interesting post by Black from a town!Black game, especially considering the first post of the game that started garnering Black scum reads.

Generic trying to read and solve already is probably a good sign?

In addition, here is a bunch of Black posts made this game that I think fit the model of Black explicitly trying to get town read through her posting:

I don't think anyone should be locktowning me tbh. I'm a dangerous scum player. Granted I haven't rolled scum since my first 3 newbie games on the site but that probably just means I'm overdue and you should all fade me ASAP

i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway

you won't be able to weasel your way out of getting faded D2 and town will already be down 3 members assuming the NK goes through

unfortunately it doesn't look like i'll be getting the pleasure

all of these posts are just very, "looks like im gonna die oh well! look at me im so town!" it feels very disingenuous and from looking over Black's town games, it really doesn't look like the way town!Black posts.

I also just think her posts are kind of overwrought. I first noticed this with 108, where there's a lot of extra words used to reinforce Black's confidence in her scum read on me like "I don't like this at all" and the "conveniently hopped on the wagon built by others" lines.

I think some of her posts arguing with Generic have also been scummy, like 247, where she makes a pedantic argument that because she used the words "probably" and "likely" she's actually not very sure about her scum read on Generic. This is despite the fact Black has implicitly said she's fine with trading her life for Generic's, she's apparently that confident in her scum read on Generic.

I don't think 255 or 258 are particularly towny either. Black is using the logic that Generic shouldn't want to be elimmed first, despite once again having just said that she is *fine* with being elimmed first. I think it's overly conciliatory considering the tone of the argument thus far and Black is looking to be seen as the reasonable one, not actually determine Generic's alignment.

[Dannflor]

generic put your vote back on black please

[Dannflor]

im fine ending the day here tbh

[Generic]

I feel like you are role fishing Danny boy

[Generic]

If black flips town, Dannflor is confirmed mafia to me.

Just putting that out there.

Because they are doing everything they can to remove black and apply pressure for an actual claim from them, and tactically this feels like a ‘oops, well I guess generic is scum afterall’.

I’ve moved on from black. I will return to that another day, I’m not feeling that for day 1. You do you fella. But my theory is now out there.

[camelCasedSnivy]

generic what do you think about CCGeek now?

[Dannflor]

I don't think a black town flip would make you scum

I'd definitely reassess but I think you're town independently

I don't really know what you are saying here

Black has all but actually claimed

if I was role fishing I'd try to run up someone outside of you two

[Generic]

generic what do you think about CCGeek now?

I haven’t given him any thought, I’ve been popping in and out and reading what’s in front of me.

I will iso him now.

[Generic]

evening, I'm really tired, so I don't think I'll be able to pump out posts today. I have caught up, though.

Utter shocker of a post and ive only just started the iso (I’m working backwards).

So can’t be bothered to offer anything other than this, but patently had the energy to read the game which was approx 87 posts between this and his previous one.

This is fluff. Belly button fluff posting. Pointless, just posting to seem active, and utterly devoid of anything of value. If anything I know LESS since reading it. This post has stolen knowledge from me it’s so bad.

Anyway, back to the iso…

[Black]

Me saying I'm fine with dying first was not a claim. Why do you keep insinuating that instead of just asking me directly if I claimed? I don't understand why you're so sure that was a claim when it seems pretty clear to me that there were emotions involved in the discussion last night, at least on my end. Me wanting to die as long as Generic dies too was an emotional response from me and I'm not sure why you haven't even really considered that

Also, I disagree with most of your assessment of my meta. Especially this part:

scum!Black cares about getting town read, and she posts stuff that she thinks will get her town read.

town!Black seems to care quite a bit less about getting town read and more about solving the game

This proves to me that you don't have a good understanding of me at all. I care way more about being scumread when I'm town. That's why in almost every town game of mine you could pull up I've gotten in early game arguments with people that call me scummy for dumb reasons

[Dannflor]

because it doesn't read like an emotional response

it reads a intentionally casual

[Black]

Cool. I'll add it to the pile of times people read me wrong

[Dannflor]

yeah, Generic is probably just scum here. i'm fine going first though. i'm at e-1 anyway

this does not read as an emotional "heat of the moment" response

"i'm at e-1 anyway"

that's someone trying to be extra casual about the possibility of dying

[Generic]

This feels like you're... tunneling?

really? I'm just commenting on the one thing that has happened this game lol. We're having a conversation. I don't think I'm in a tunnel yet

anyway I'm fine with where my vote is for now

Hmm. I suppose we have our differences in how we view this game. I think it's too early for you to be on E-1, so I'll unvote, but consider my vote spiritually on you for now. UNVOTE: Black

Doesn't matter, E-2 isn't bad early D1 for 9p

So putting them at E-2 almost immediately is fine in early game… but over 100 posts in E-1 isn’t? When the vote you threw down had zero substance to it?

And even better than that… it wasn’t even E-1!

This is the vote count almost immediately after with no other unvotes inbetween.

Day 1 VC #2

Black

(2): T3 (36), Dannflor (96)

CCGeek (3): Aureal (35), Black (56), camelCasedSnivy (66)

Generic

(1): iamveryhappy (89)

Not Voting

(3): Dunnstral, Generic, CCGeek (101)

With 9 alive, it takes five votes to fade a player.

Deadlines

This phase will end on Sunday, October 1, 2023 7:00 PM CDT (GMT-5:00) or in (expired on 2023-10-01 19:00:00).

Moderator Notes

1: If you have regular weekend V/LA, you must either notify me each time or set V/LA tags each time.
2: Let me know if you spot any errors in the vote count or voting history. I am trying out a new tool for recording the voting history.
3: Let me know if you go by a different pronoun than listed.

Pronoun Key

1. camelCasedSnivy : he / him / his
2. T3 : he / him / his
3. Black : she / her / her
4. Aureal : she / her / her
5. Dunnstral : unspecified / unspecified / unspecified
6. Dannflor : he / him / his
7. CCGeek : he / him / his
8. iamveryhappy : he / him / his
9. Generic : unspecified / unspecified / unspecified

So you removed your E-2 vote from black even though E-2 was acceptable to you 50 posts earlier, which also means you become the lead wagon?

Is black your mafia PR CCGeek?