Large Normal 244 | Quotes From my Linear Algebra Professor or Random City Skylines or Random Songs: Town Wins!

[pisskop]

did BPM claim vigilante at any time?

[bob3141]

i think psyche just claimed complex vig so they could role fish. Each night action claim they can fish to see if a player is vt or not based on their reaction

[Psyche]

yeah re: bbm vig but i think most readers have agreed it was easy to interpret as insincere

[Psyche]

I technically think ideal strategy is to kill me either tonight (JV) or tomorrow but bob's point is the best reason to lim me today. Substantial discussion about who I should shoot has good odds of leading to more PR claims. I'd initially thought RN claimed bc he saw the "shoot RN" instruction but he has denied it I think.

[JacksonVirgo]

I technically think ideal strategy is to kill me either tonight (JV) or tomorrow but bob's point is the best reason to lim me today. Substantial discussion about who I should shoot has good odds of leading to more PR claims. I'd initially thought RN claimed bc he saw the "shoot RN" instruction but he has denied it I think.

He claims he didn't know we planned on you shooting him

[Psyche]

yeah. i find it unfortunate for reading him that he'd say that. also why'd he claim, then? whatever

[Psyche]

so im convinced! i need to die. still not gonna self vote. honestly still not really motivated to do a readslist. is it going to change the calculus surrounding whether i should die? is it going to affect people's reads and increase the probability of a good lim down the line? i don't really think so. so what's the pointtt

ah but this reminds me of the fatalism from D1

[shaddowez]

I technically think ideal strategy is to kill me either tonight (JV) or tomorrow but bob's point is the best reason to lim me today. Substantial discussion about who I should shoot has good odds of leading to more PR claims. I'd initially thought RN claimed bc he saw the "shoot RN" instruction but he has denied it I think.

He claims he didn't know we planned on you shooting him

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to

not

claim BP

P-Edit: I get the not self-voting, but if you're town doesn't a readlist help your wincon? After the flip your reads could be used to help inform the rest of us.

[shaddowez]

Re-read your post, and I think that it absolutely

could

help down the line

[shaddowez]

Even without explicitly telling us who you're aiming at, your list could inform us enough that NKA would be useful as well.

[JacksonVirgo]

yeah. i find it unfortunate for reading him that he'd say that. also why'd he claim, then? whatever

I'd like to discuss him with you. Even if you're a wolf, I feel he isn't teamed with you so it's mutual benefit.
He claims to be an Informed Bulletproof. Ungated. Informed that at least one mafia faction knows that a Bulletproof exists.

He claimed a 2-shot BP D1, he claims today that was to gauge who reacted weirdly to it but he has not seemed to have any reads that would suggest this was a genuine thought process. Ducky also called this out, so I feel if he *is* a wolf (RN) that ducky isn't paired with him. I don't believe RN's thought processes as genuine. He regards a false/wrong SR on him as scum-hunting instead of pushing LHF which would imply a freudian slip that he is a wolf and that reads a case on him as accurate at it's core rather than a push for a pushes sake. He doesn't appear to have the same thought processes as he claims to have regarding his attempt to get a read based on his informed modifier and his claim. Stuff like this

[Psyche]

i guess there's a niche scenario that could unfold where a top alternative lim candidate claims a role and people want to verify it. for example, if hu tao had claimed vanilla, telling me to shoot her while intending to shoot me would be a way to test her claim without killing her. but there are too many reasons she could survive the night, especially if we assume drew isn't why I didn't get a fruit today. that assumption directly implies there's another intefering role around that hasn't claimed. and i would not imagine at this point that the role is held by town.

[JacksonVirgo]

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to not claim BP

RN would have no idea if Psyche is scum or not.

[shaddowez]

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to not claim BP

RN would have no idea if Psyche is scum or not.

I realize that, if he did we'd be having a completely different discussion. I'm saying that if he

thought

Psyche was scum and Psyche was planning on targeting RN, Psyche has two options:

1) not target RN, in which case he lied about what he was going to do and probably get speedlimmed tomorrow, or
2) target RN, in which case if RN actually is BP we'd have one less town NK

In either of these cases, not claiming would have made more sense. That said, need to look into why he

did

claim, since there doesn't seem to be a good reason for that either.

[JacksonVirgo]

I sort of believe that, because if RN thinks Psyche is scum (which based on his vote is the case), I could see a case to not claim BP

RN would have no idea if Psyche is scum or not.

I realize that, if he did we'd be having a completely different discussion. I'm saying that if he

thought

Psyche was scum and Psyche was planning on targeting RN, Psyche has two options:

1) not target RN, in which case he lied about what he was going to do and probably get speedlimmed tomorrow, or
2) target RN, in which case if RN actually is BP we'd have one less town NK

In either of these cases, not claiming would have made more sense. That said, need to look into why he

did

claim, since there doesn't seem to be a good reason for that either.

Why are you discussing Psyche's actions when you want to find why RN did what he did.

As Town, I can only really assume he did it cuz ???. Cuz he felt like it? It doesn't make sense to me but as scum there's plenty of reasons from not wanting to risk getting shot (maybe they're red-maf specifically with already low numbers). Maybe they're a scum BP that doesn't want to be in a 1 for 1 with Psyche if he gets shot and doesn't die.

[Psyche]

ok agenda for this hour:
- discuss RN
- sum up a readslist

RN:
maybe thing im curious most about surrounding the claim is whether this is normally how Informed works? because it's tough to believe that the role would have so many modifiers in a normal. but maybe also tough to believe that scum would claim a role so weird. but idk, i don't have confident intuitions around how scum-RN would think through the issue, it gets wifomy. i think we'll have to look to other posts to catch a read on him. will say that i don't really believe in freudian slips and i am a phd candidate in memory science who's read some papers around intrusive memory so it's not just for loser 2012 meta reasons but because semantic/phonological slips are much more common and don't reflect belief/knowledge states in the same way. i think anything else i can say about RN will involve skimming his iso in the way i plan to do for everyone else presently.

ok readslist next. like i said earlier, all my confident reads are townreads so if you see a scumread in it it'll probably be poe -- but confident poe!

[Psyche]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deese%E2% ... t_paradigm

pls ask me to elaborate on the "freudian slips aren't real" deal bc that's actually interesting. there's a computational model of how memory for word lists work that is pretty good at what it's for and it accounts for many phenomena that come up in the research paradigm linked above. this leaves me thinking that these intrusions are well understood. if we take as a given that *semantic* slips -- that is, language failure due to semantic similarity rather than secret knowledge/beliefs -- are both 1) pretty common and 2) hard to distinguish from freudian slips, then maybe that doesn't imply that freudian slips "aren't real" but it does imply that that it's nigh impossible to tell if a slip was freudian.

also, anticipating an objection: yeah it's maybe a stretch to generalize this to irl or a game of mafia but i'm gonna -- aggressively

[JacksonVirgo]

It's not foolproof, nothing is. It's a tool. I'm using it. They also have discrepancies in their perspective which aligns with that line of thinking as well

[Psyche]

still townread
pisskop and aisa because of their replacements
TL but i can't remember the original reason
zzzx for stuff surrounding the self vote iirc
bbmolla for recently reviewed reasons
jv for recently reviewed reasons
hmm why do i townread cat. aw man my iso is huuuuge

uggh this is so grueling. im not a readslist guy. it's in my meta ive been in this situation time and time again. everyone was right im a whiney guy that's my thing. don't make me do this. it hurts so much. i can't do it. send me to my maker. the fates command it. sometimes you get a crosskill sometimes you get soft guiltied as town. we have to be stoic about these things. i wanna go play sea of stars.

[Naerys]

pisskop and aisa because of their replacements

I dont understand, you believe this slots are town, bcz they were replaced? I dont really consider replacement as AI

[T3]

Prodding ZZZX

[pisskop]

pisskop and aisa because of their replacements

excuse me?

I've posted more than my prior at this point b

[pisskop]

So why were you so cryptic about reason 6 before now?

oh i can say who i aimed at, too, sure. it was BBM. reasons:
1) scumread the guy
2) figured it would be lame to not commit to it with my shot
3) decided that even if the flip proved town, i'd get to not fixate on the scumread through D2
4) can you imagine how delicious it would be if I was proven right? I even planned what I'd say. A reference to flavorleaf's posts about my "2012 meta".
5) even if i turned out to be wrong, i could make a really shadey post down the line referencing justifications for limming people just to move the game along, shrink the playerlist to make scumhunting possible, take out antitown slots for the health of the meta, etc. of course it would have all been cope.
6) a sixth reason

[Psyche]

pisskop and aisa because of their replacements

I dont understand, you believe this slots are town, bcz they were replaced? I dont really consider replacement as AI

hmm. i think i do, at least in a lot of cases? but i feel like this is a question that someone has already explored in a MD thread that I do feel motivated to look for. My stance on these replacements isn't as simple as "scum more frequently stick it out", but if replacements aren't disproportionately townslots, then I'll agree I'm being too casual with these townreads.

[Psyche]

So why were you so cryptic about reason 6 before now?

oh i can say who i aimed at, too, sure. it was BBM. reasons:
1) scumread the guy
2) figured it would be lame to not commit to it with my shot
3) decided that even if the flip proved town, i'd get to not fixate on the scumread through D2
4) can you imagine how delicious it would be if I was proven right? I even planned what I'd say. A reference to flavorleaf's posts about my "2012 meta".
5) even if i turned out to be wrong, i could make a really shadey post down the line referencing justifications for limming people just to move the game along, shrink the playerlist to make scumhunting possible, take out antitown slots for the health of the meta, etc. of course it would have all been cope.
6) a sixth reason

it's incorrect in retrospect, but for me the sixth reason was contingent on the complex part of the role, something i was still cagey about revealing in this quoted post because i was hoping to use the information to sort bbmolla later (e.g., to call him out if he commits to one of his D1 claims)