Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Datisi]

zzz hello i got lazy i read up now

I don't feel all that great about Dats tbh

is there any reason for this besides that one post you called tmi?

Well let's put it this way, I feel better about Hero, Merlyn, Imp, and Bella than I feel about you.

Felt better about Ari, but not so sure now. So I would prefer to be in the coalition over you.

that doesn't help me much but ok let's see

why is that one post from me tmi-ing mala and why do you think merlyn is town?

[Datisi]

y?

ah.

[Doctor Drew]

zzz hello i got lazy i read up now

I don't feel all that great about Dats tbh

is there any reason for this besides that one post you called tmi?

Well let's put it this way, I feel better about Hero, Merlyn, Imp, and Bella than I feel about you.

Felt better about Ari, but not so sure now. So I would prefer to be in the coalition over you.

that doesn't help me much but ok let's see

why is that one post from me tmi-ing mala and why do you think merlyn is town?

It is vibes, I always am a little distrusting of her early on, but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game. Plus there is a looseness there I don't really see from scum(like the whole town spew thing)

[Datisi]

well datisi doesn't townread mala so he doesn't want her in the coalition

i mean i was mostly asking to try to get a gauge on your reads and where your head is at, not to align our coalitions

i don't want mala in if i don't have any reason to townread her, which i currently don't

fwiw i'm pretty sure this sort of approach to coalition building isn't scummy for ari

[Datisi]

HEAL: Datisi, Hero, Merlyn, Bella, Implosion

i don't think scum-ari would put an all-town coalition forward

positioning to push me and hero upon this coalition failure would surely be... a choice. maybe not that impossible to push me i guess but it's still p bizarre

[Datisi]

but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game

is there anything to this that's not the "looseness", because this doesn't really tell me anything

[Doctor Drew]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Actually maybe TMI isn't the correct thing, and I am forgetting the term when scum protects town like this.

But, there is such a confidence you show here that you know her scum game so well there is no possible way she can be scum. Even if you know someone's play fairly well, I don't buy that you could make this strong of a read early in a game, especially with a light poster like Mala, as town.

Basically like I said, this reads like you know she is town.

Pre Edit: You said to someone else that scumMala doesn't do this, sounds kinda like at least a little bit of a town read, if i am wrong and you are town as well.

[Datisi]

so right now i'm kinda happy with a datisi/hero/merlyn/bella/implosion coalition.
is there anyone who actually SR's these people?

i read merlyn's iso and i did read your post and i still don't see why people townread her
but if she does get read slower than usual then i wouldn't mind waiting a lil bit for her (and some others as well) to post a bit more before making a call

[Doctor Drew]

but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game

is there anything to this that's not the "looseness", because this doesn't really tell me anything

Well I explained that it is a big part of my town read on her, and I gave an example of what I meant. So I don't know what to tell you if it doesn't tell you anything.

[Datisi]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Actually maybe TMI isn't the correct thing, and I am forgetting the term when scum protects town like this.

But, there is such a confidence you show here that you know her scum game so well there is no possible way she can be scum. Even if you know someone's play fairly well, I don't buy that you could make this strong of a read early in a game, especially with a light poster like Mala, as town.

Basically like I said, this reads like you know she is town.

Pre Edit: You said to someone else that scumMala doesn't do this, sounds kinda like at least a little bit of a town read, if i am wrong and you are town as well.

*blinks*

my guy, you might wanna read that conversation again, i was arguing AGAINST ari's townread on mala

like ari made a point where she said that "mala as scum here would've done all this analysis before making this p2 post and would've concluded not to make it, therefore she's not scum here"

and i was saying "i don't think scum-mala would've done all that analysis before making that p2 post, therefore she can still be scum here"

[Datisi]

but now I feel like(much like I did with Ari) that this really is her town game

is there anything to this that's not the "looseness", because this doesn't really tell me anything

Well I explained that it is a big part of my town read on her, and I gave an example of what I meant. So I don't know what to tell you if it doesn't tell you anything.

the way you phrased 252 made it sound like there's another big reason besides looseness

do you have like, any of them meta links for how stiff she is as scum (personally her play here doesn't strike me as very loose)

[Doctor Drew]

actually like, idk how much exp you have with mala, i don't have that much, but she doesn't strike me as a sort of thinking 5 steps ahead scum player (no offense) that you're making her out to be there, do you think it's like, likely that scum-mala would've been thinking so much about something like that on page 2?

Hear me out.

Reading that post again by Dats, doesn't it read as he knows you are town?

Actually maybe TMI isn't the correct thing, and I am forgetting the term when scum protects town like this.

But, there is such a confidence you show here that you know her scum game so well there is no possible way she can be scum. Even if you know someone's play fairly well, I don't buy that you could make this strong of a read early in a game, especially with a light poster like Mala, as town.

Basically like I said, this reads like you know she is town.

Pre Edit: You said to someone else that scumMala doesn't do this, sounds kinda like at least a little bit of a town read, if i am wrong and you are town as well.

*blinks*

my guy, you might wanna read that conversation again, i was arguing AGAINST ari's townread on mala

like ari made a point where she said that "mala as scum here would've done all this analysis before making this p2 post and would've concluded not to make it, therefore she's not scum here"

and i was saying "i don't think scum-mala would've done all that analysis before making that p2 post, therefore she can still be scum here"

Well here's the thing lol, I didn't read the whole conversation and just saw when Mala quoted the one post with the cry emoji. In a vacuum it pinged me.

But I get what you are saying now, but I swear it looks like you are defending her lol.

[Doctor Drew]

You know, a bit of a mea culpa on Dats.....I could see him in the coalition, considering the one reason I was scum reading them may have been misread by me lol.

[Aristeia]

I'd rather not, I have low expectations this coalition wins but I am ready to be surprised.

Why put through this coalition if you think it has a high chance of failing?

because I can always just be wrong

[Aristeia]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

Mala implo & bella

?

well datisi doesn't townread mala so he doesn't want her in the coalition

I don't townread you or datisi but if datisi is town then he's probly right about you being town

and if the coalition fails I'll know who I want to vote

why are you sheeping datisi if you are so adamant you aren't townreading him? this really doesn't add up for me

also i have no idea what you mean with the last sentence - are you insinuating that if the coalition fails i'm scum for it?

just because I don't townread him doesn't mean I don't want to win with him if he's town.

if the coalition you are confident is all town fails then yea I would yeet you for it.

[Aristeia]

whether you're mafia or not for it I'm not as sure but I wouldn't be sure on anyone and you are as good a place to start as any.

[Doctor Drew]

I'd rather not, I have low expectations this coalition wins but I am ready to be surprised.

Why put through this coalition if you think it has a high chance of failing?

because I can always just be wrong

If you have low confidence, why not put yourself in it?

[Aristeia]

But her not liking her coalition group is just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it tbh. Unless it is a bit of TMI, like she knows one of her buddies is in it.

well I don't particularly think anyone really cares about what I want the coalition to be so I don't particularly care about trying to force my opinions through.

[Aristeia]

I'd rather not, I have low expectations this coalition wins but I am ready to be surprised.

Why put through this coalition if you think it has a high chance of failing?

because I can always just be wrong

If you have low confidence, why not put yourself in it?

because i'll just get misyeeted when it fails

[Aristeia]

like you say you are confident that you will get us a very early win hero

and I personally do not believe you will or that you are town

so i'm happy to sheep you because if you're town and you get it passed and we win then I will win also and thats good

and if you're scum and you fail the coalition i will get to yeet you.

and if you're town and you fail the coalition well thats your own fault for being wrong and ridiculously confident that you could win with it.

[Doctor Drew]

But her not liking her coalition group is just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it tbh. Unless it is a bit of TMI, like she knows one of her buddies is in it.

well I don't particularly think anyone really cares about what I want the coalition to be so I don't particularly care about trying to force my opinions through.

I'd rather not, I have low expectations this coalition wins but I am ready to be surprised.

Why put through this coalition if you think it has a high chance of failing?

because I can always just be wrong

If you have low confidence, why not put yourself in it?

because i'll just get misyeeted when it fails

This comes off as over the top defeatism.

[Aristeia]

that's my honest assessment of how the game is. I hope I am wrong

[Merlyn]

I'm going to get really nitpicky on this idea that it's scummy that I hadn't given any reads. I posted as soon as I saw the game was open. When you posted 156, I had been playing in the game for 29 hours. I also slept and went to work twice in those 29 hours. So, was it really dubious that I hadn't formed or posted any reads yet? Am I really the first player you've met who decided to take more than 29 hours to figure out what they think? Or am I right to think it's odd that it's even being remarked upon?

i don't really like this, it feels like an oversimplification. i don't want to speak for implo here and obv he can correct me if i'm wrong, but his 156 made me realise that merlyn's posts are mostly like, fluffposts. like, it's obvious she was reading the game because she was responding to things about the game, so she did put some thought into it, but there was no Actually Alignment Comments in those posts. and scum is more likely to go into that mode of responding to things and asking questions, but not actually solving, because you know they can't solve.

so it's like, it's not the issue that she didn't have reads, hell my reads are probably utter ass currently, but that she wasn't really working towards getting them?

I have this memory of you pushing me as scum in a game I repped out of and I think you were a lot meaner than this, so I like this post for town.

I think you're just describing a playstyle difference, I could have come out of the game with reads that I didn't really have confidence in too, but I don't feel like I had to, I maintain it's fine to wait a couple of pages and days to figure things out, especially in a game with a long D1.

I definitely know how to fake a read as scum btw lol. If you someday catch me as scum in another game it won't be because I didn't know how to put any fake reads out there. And I ask questions to figure out how to solve.

[Merlyn]

But her not liking her coalition group is just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it tbh. Unless it is a bit of TMI, like she knows one of her buddies is in it.

well I don't particularly think anyone really cares about what I want the coalition to be so I don't particularly care about trying to force my opinions through.

I'd rather not, I have low expectations this coalition wins but I am ready to be surprised.

Why put through this coalition if you think it has a high chance of failing?

because I can always just be wrong

If you have low confidence, why not put yourself in it?

because i'll just get misyeeted when it fails

This comes off as over the top defeatism.

It is super defeatist, but in your experience is that AI for Ari?

[Merlyn]

@ari, if you had to pick a coalition to form right now, what would it be?

maybe me you implo hero and bella

very much a 6am not very awake thought

Mala implo & bella

?

well datisi doesn't townread mala so he doesn't want her in the coalition

I don't townread you or datisi but if datisi is town then he's probly right about you being town

and if the coalition fails I'll know who I want to vote

I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there. There's no point in being worried that it will make you a target later if the coalition fails, you're getting heat now anyway.