Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Merlyn]

I think Ari is scum.

Can you expand on this read for me?

[Aristeia]

I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there. There's no point in being worried that it will make you a target later if the coalition fails, you're getting heat now anyway.

i have two completed games of coalition;

viewtopic.php?t=91245
viewtopic.php?t=89428

I am town in both

I suggested not being in coalition in both

I ended up in the coalition in both

I personally do not enjoy being in the coalition unless I'm absolutely certain my coalition is winning.

I am nowhere near that level of certainty at present and might never be.

Saying that I am mafia for not wanting to be in the coalition because all townies would want to be in the coalition and ascribing the only possible reason for someone not wanting to be in the coalition as "they are mafia who are pushing their partner in instead" is reductionist and absurd.

[Merlyn]

Ari- don't love the latest posts, already explained why
Bella- vibing a lil town to me
Datisi- leaning town because I remember him being cutthroat as scum, I also kind of like he went against the sudden wave of people tr'ing me bc as scum it would be easier to just go along with it and not make waves.
Drew- I just kind of want Drew to be town bc it's so rare we don't instantly scumread each other. My single experience with Drew as scum was as a partner and I do think he sheeps more as scum.  Maybe I'll just go with it and hope I'm not in the Whiskey Pocket.
Hero- oh idk. I have to think about it. 
Implo- I think they're probably town, I like their posts more than I dislike
mala- a bitty townvibe
THS- so far this the play is not out of his scumrange at all, time will tell ig

HEAL: Merlyn, Datisi, Drew, Implo gotta think more on how to pick a fifth

[Merlyn]

I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there. There's no point in being worried that it will make you a target later if the coalition fails, you're getting heat now anyway.

i have two completed games of coalition;

viewtopic.php?t=91245
viewtopic.php?t=89428

I am town in both

I suggested not being in coalition in both

I ended up in the coalition in both

I personally do not enjoy being in the coalition unless I'm absolutely certain my coalition is winning.

I am nowhere near that level of certainty at present and might never be.

Saying that I am mafia for not wanting to be in the coalition because all townies would want to be in the coalition and ascribing the only possible reason for someone not wanting to be in the coalition as "they are mafia who are pushing their partner in instead" is reductionist and absurd.

Good think I didn't say that the was the only possible reason huh? I was pointing out that there's a good reason why folx would suspect you for not putting yourself in. You seemed to be saying the main reason you didn't is bc you'd get heat if it failed, and I was pointing out that you're already getting heat. This post kind of feels like an overreaction.

I appreciate the links, I'll read them if I have time

[Aristeia]

it's not a good reason

[Aristeia]

I don't really care about heat pre-coalition because it doesn't mean anything when we're not eliminating people and if people want to eliminate me after coaalition failure when i'm not even in the coalition then they can enjoy losing

[Aristeia]

This post kind of feels like an overreaction.

it feels like you've spent more time shading me and very little time trying to understand my perspective

[Merlyn]

This post kind of feels like an overreaction.

it feels like you've spent more time shading me and very little time trying to understand my perspective

I've only ever interacted with you once before this and it was to agree with you on something

[Doctor Drew]

HURT: Ari

HEAL: dats, drew

[Hero at Heart]

y?

ah.

??

[Hero at Heart]

i just woke up

feeling like a wreck

anyway back to work

[Hero at Heart]

just because I don't townread him doesn't mean I don't want to win with him if he's town.

yeah but you can win with him with a coalition you feel is more pure???

or like, if you think kittens is town over bella and you want to win with datisi, why not include kittens over bella?

if the coalition you are confident is all town fails then yea I would yeet you for it.

can you explain the logic behind this?
like, why confidence = scum?
can town!me not be mistakenly confident?

[Hero at Heart]

like you say you are confident that you will get us a very early win hero

and I personally do not believe you will or that you are town

so i'm happy to sheep you because if you're town and you get it passed and we win then I will win also and thats good

and if you're scum and you fail the coalition i will get to yeet you.

and if you're town and you fail the coalition well thats your own fault for being wrong and ridiculously confident that you could win with it.

well then

what could i do to get you to see am town?

also this is a question i had earlier and forgot about: imagine you were a daycop (which i don't think is even a real role but w/e), and you got a green check on me - how would you feel about this coalition? how confident would you be datisi is town in that situation?
if you got a green check on either me or datisi, what would be your

preferred

coalition?

[Hero at Heart]

k, i really shouldn't be posting when i feel like shit

i'll get back to posting solvy things in a few hours

[Aristeia]

yeah but you can win with him with a coalition you feel is more pure???

or like, if you think kittens is town over bella and you want to win with datisi, why not include kittens over bella?

i don't think kittens is townier than bella

[Aristeia]

can you explain the logic behind this?
like, why confidence = scum?
can town!me not be mistakenly confident?

no

if you want to say you will get it right then you should be accountable for your decisions rather than just be able to back out and say oops no I made a boo boo

[Aristeia]

what could i do to get you to see am town?

why does it even matter to you that I see you as town? you're already claiming that I'm mafia and pocketing you no?

[Aristeia]

also this is a question i had earlier and forgot about: imagine you were a daycop (which i don't think is even a real role but w/e), and you got a green check on me - how would you feel about this coalition? how confident would you be datisi is town in that situation?
if you got a green check on either me or datisi, what would be your preferred coalition?

this is a ridiculous hypothetical because we don't have a daycop but I will entertain it anyway.

I would not want to be in your coalition even if I had a daycop innocent on you.

[Aristeia]

This post kind of feels like an overreaction.

it feels like you've spent more time shading me and very little time trying to understand my perspective

I've only ever interacted with you once before this and it was to agree with you on something

I am speaking about our current interaction

[Aristeia]

I will make this as simple as possible for you Hero.

I do not believe you are town or that you will make a winning coalition if you were town in this current game state. I believe the odds to be quite low.

You scumread me - that is fine I am happy to be out of your coalition so that when it fails I do not get scapegoated.

I am offering to sheep you because you expressed that you are quite confident that you will make a winning coalition and win quite quickly.

I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong about everything that I currently think if your coalition succeeds and we win.

[Aristeia]

The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there.

[Aristeia]

Good think I didn't say that the was the only possible reason huh?

[Aristeia]

I think the implication in 274 is that the only reason I have for not advocating for myself is that I am a wolf who is trying to push my partner into the coalition.

when I explain I do this in previous runs of the game as town and say this is not a reasonable conjecture - you claim you didn't really even say it.

you just feel slimy here to me.

[Aristeia]

I also don't even know which partner you believe I'm pushing into the coalition as I've basically offered to sheep hero on whatever coalition he wants

[Aristeia]

I guess I should expand on what I mean because sometimes its difficult for people to understand me.

I do agree that numbers wise it just makes sense to put yourself forward for the coalition bc if you know you're town then you can only be wrong about 4 spots rather than 5. The only person who can really relax and not need to advocate for themselves here is a wolf who is pushing a partner in there.

^
the implication here is that Ari is mafia because she's not advocating for herself to be in the coalition.

I respond to you by showing you two games where I am town, playing coalition, and advocating for coalitions of people that do not include me and I also say that your claim that the only reason I'd be advocating for a coalition without me is that I'm mafia is reductionist and absurd.

you then shoot back at me that you didn't say it's the only reason - which is just technicality about the wording you used - the insinuation is quite clear.
you also claim its you explaining to me why folks might think I'm susp for not wanting to be in? which is ????? like instead of just saying that you are trying to shade me you're claiming its what other people think of me. which is quite a dodge.

finally you claim i'm overreacting to you claiming that the only reasonable explanation for my play this game is that I'm mafia. which is just more shade.

at no point did you actually read and try to understand my perspective or the games I cited as examples of my townplay in previous runs of coalition where I made the exact same play.