Open 889 | Secrets of the Anuket Topaz | fin.

[Dannflor]

VC 1.13

Water

Alisae [2]:

T3, Shirou

Ydrasse [2]:

Andresvmb, imaginality

patchwork [2]:

Firebringer, jjh927

Save The Dragons [1]:

Ydrasse

camelCasedSnivy [1]:

Prism

Prism [1]:

camelCasedSnivy

Shirou [1]:

Alisae

Not Voting [3]:

patchwork, Save The Dragons, gob

With 13 on-board, it takes 7 to force someone to walk the plank. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-10-22 18:36:06).

Mod Notes:

[Shirou]

Alisae keeps saying votes are good, calls me scum multiple times, but doesn't vote me until I call her out on not following her own philosophy?

How is that not alignment indicative Fire?

alisae can simulatenously believe that and ur not worth voting for right now.
also alisae believes in that philiosphy regardless of alignment so u telling me that alisae is just contradicting own philisophy is now an alignment indicative thing for alisae for what....

is alisae scared to pressure u for fear of a 1v1 cause i think scumsae is totally cool with 1v1s.

Alisae wasn't scared of a 1v1, my guess is that she was just kinda mindlessly trying to "post content" and that's exactly why pushing/voting someone more directly didn't come up at all, she was more interested on playing this kind of "mediator" role in the game talking about how Gob should mechanically see voting or commenting about whatever is the current talk in the thread, but not really trying to get someone she was rather confident on being scum killed.

Until I called the behavior out, I guess.

[Prism]

Shirou has no reason to feel threatened on this page. They are not that myopic as scum. You are the one being voted, not him, and the other vote is on camel. He is under zero threat.

This looks like a townie who thinks they're the center of the universe and that someone's energy should be more on them. I have seen it a million times and I have personally done it a million times. He is obsessed with you because he wants to solve your slot. He is obsessed with you not spending more time solving his slot.

I'm not arguing with you about camel. We will not agree. "It's not impossible for a town to also react that way" is the lowest bar I've heard in awhile for a towntell. I am willing to vote you as my backup if I cannot get camel.

[Prism]

And with that I will sleep, well over my posting cap. Goodnight all.

[Alisae]

Shirou has no reason to feel threatened on this page.

Prism you don't know Shirou.
Shirou is the kind of person that would try to be louder than a wolf!mastina even tho it's unnecessary to try to be louder than her. He didn't need to be louder than wolf!mastina, the town would likely think that she's suspect anyways. He was anyway because he felt like it was important to look town. I just saw it as noise and it seemed unnecessary.
They care about how they are appeared as, they care about it a lot.
Just because someone is technically not in any danger does not mean that that danger is any less real to them.

and ya talking to me about camel is pointless it's a he says she says argument. I knew this from the start and I engaged w/ it because I don't rly have any reason not to. You think they're mafia I think they're town.

[Shirou]

@Fire

My view from the last pages is basically that:

Alisae wasn't trying to solve who is scum and then get votes on them, which I do think is what town!Alisae would do especially given she apparently had a fairly confident scum read on me.

Alisae was trying to comment on not very important things, give the impression she's contributing with the discussion, and establish a "progression" and it all started when she began to get more widely voted.

This feels like classic scum trying to improve their image when suspected to me, I don't understand why this doesn't seem to be a more popular opinion at least as as a hypothesis.

[Shirou]

and about this whole "being louder than whatever", I usually tried to be louder than others as both town and scum

I don't think I'll have the time or will to try to be "louder" than Ali depending on how much she posts though

I've spent too many nights without good sleep trying to be "louder" than others and it was one of the things about mafia that really sucked

Right now I'm just baffled that no one understands what I'm seeing in Alisae.

[Shirou]

alisae if ur agreeing with jjh why aren't u joining in on patchwork

reading back I came across this

Why can't you see that until I called her out, Ali didn't actually give a fuck about getting supposed scum killed Fire...

To me she just wanted to *appear* to be solving the game, really.

[Shirou]

Ali:

creating wagons and being on wagons is good if you want to generate information. The more votes on a wagon the better.

Voting things is more often than not good and being on wagons is good because it creates reads.
Guy thinks you should only vote what you wanna flip. I can't blame the guy for having a narrow view of how to use this vote, he doesn't seem that experienced.

Also Ali, except not voting anyone:

Shirou vote on me reeks opportunism

This is so LAMIST

btw this is why you're probably mafia in this game.
You didn't need to add this but you did.

Shirou is the only one that really comes across as mafia w/ these interactions and I think their attacks on me are motivated by opportunism

{Shirou} this is who I definitively think is mafia

[Shirou]

I'm going back to sleep but to conclude the spam:

Alisae is by far the scummiest player to me and I do not understand why this doesn't seem to be a more popular opinion given that at least in the game I played with town!Ali, she did in fact vote more freely/often to progress the game/reads just like she was talking about with Gob.

Firebringer asked why would she contradict her own philosophy, and the answer to me is: She's being honest with Gob on what she thinks is optimal mechanical play for town, but she isn't town and isn't focused on strictly imitating her town mindset here because it would be too much effort. Perhaps I don't think she realized the contradiction between what she was saying to Gob and how she was playing because again, low efforting the game.

More importantly, If she was town I don't think she would need to "think" about doing the above either, I think she would do it naturally because it's what she believes in.

Bye-bye thread~

[T3]

It’s late and I haven’t been analyzing much but I think an Aisae flip spews camel town

[jjh927]

Do you know what is completely useless this game

Saying who you think is town on a theoretical scumflip

[Firebringer]

@shirou im not saying alisae can't possibly be scum but the reasons u given i don't see it at all. in fact the way alisae is now FoS seems more likely town focus on u than scum focus just from this last page than a scum agenda one. I think scumsae is more likely to be strategic in handling pushes.

anyways i don't want to get into prolonged argument im with prism on this that ur town and i don't get into arguments with townreads. its a waste of time and effort. Just trying to tell u that ur arguments and push reasons aren't convincing if anything gets me to think the opposite is more likely true.

[Andresvmb]

that last prism post might be the best content at reading prism's alignment i have ever seen

I refuse to read it.

[Andresvmb]

It’s possible Snivy knows gob is Town and is defending a slot that’ll flip in the hopes that no one will go after them tomorrow, but I don’t know how much I actually believe this take.

I do like the rest of your posts Andres.

I appreciate the positive sentiments. Didn’t mean to piss you off.

[Andresvmb]

I think Alisae’s ISO is Scummy actually. I know they’re A LOT more competent than their ISO makes it seem like they are, and they read to me like they don’t care too much what happens here.

What about Alisae's ISO did you not like? I felt they came into the thread and fluffed it up, but they were still jumping onto the StD wagon.

i think gob, andres, shirou are all town and ydrasse + firebringer are in my probably town tier

Okay I see, you're town. I agree with everything except ydrasse.

If you start from the assumption that Alisae is a solid Town player that has shown moments of high competence, AND that they like to get their way (not unlike how I like to play, actually, but I don’t have the concentration to be as aggressive as I used to be), then you’ll start noticing that Alisae (they admit to this too) isn’t trying too hard to really establish a strong presence. It’s just an early feeling - it could just go away as the game rolls on, but I felt I needed to say it.

[Andresvmb]

I’m falling asleep. I’ll continue catching up in a few hours.

[Shirou]

@shirou im not saying alisae can't possibly be scum but the reasons u given i don't see it at all. in fact the way alisae is now FoS seems more likely town focus on u than scum focus just from this last page than a scum agenda one. I think scumsae is more likely to be strategic in handling pushes.

anyways i don't want to get into prolonged argument im with prism on this that ur town and i don't get into arguments with townreads. its a waste of time and effort. Just trying to tell u that ur arguments and push reasons aren't convincing if anything gets me to think the opposite is more likely true.

Hmm...Okay.



I don't want to be annoying anymore so now that I've made my case, if people found it unconvincing, I'll try to mostly shut up about it although I still want to vote Ali.

I'm open to vote StD/Snivy/Patchwork though, and maybe Gob (I'm not sure).

[Shirou]

I'm open to vote StD/Snivy/Patchwork though, and maybe Gob (I'm not sure).

To be clear, I meant this as a compromise, in case Alisae just isn't viable today.

[Shirou]

It's lunch break and no new posts to read...

[gob]

I think Alisae’s ISO is Scummy actually. I know they’re A LOT more competent than their ISO makes it seem like they are, and they read to me like they don’t care too much what happens here.

What about Alisae's ISO did you not like? I felt they came into the thread and fluffed it up, but they were still jumping onto the StD wagon.

i think gob, andres, shirou are all town and ydrasse + firebringer are in my probably town tier

Okay I see, you're town. I agree with everything except ydrasse.

If you start from the assumption that Alisae is a solid Town player that has shown moments of high competence, AND that they like to get their way (not unlike how I like to play, actually, but I don’t have the concentration to be as aggressive as I used to be), then you’ll start noticing that Alisae (they admit to this too) isn’t trying too hard to really establish a strong presence. It’s just an early feeling - it could just go away as the game rolls on, but I felt I needed to say it.

I'll be honest, I do not really understand your read on Alisae. Why am I assuming anything about her alignment? Unless you just mean i should assume they are a solid town player. I am not seeing any solid town play from Alisae. They do seem level headed, which is towny. I disagree that not trying to establish a strong presence is towny though. I think that's NAI.

[gob]

This is so LAMIST

btw this is why you're probably mafia in this game.
You didn't need to add this but you did.

Interesting

[gob]

If you want my opinion on gob I think they're a newer player but I think their posts come from someone who is uninformed rather than someone who is informed and exploitative.

pedit: I would say a combination of both actually. You're skilled and thus it's simply is harder for you to do something that can only come from town and never comes from mafia.

I am not a newer player, I've done a lot. I'll admit I am not the best and miss a lot of simple stuff, though.

[gob]

i do find it funny that gob unvoted because thought too many votes on alisae when wasn't even voting alisae.
still want to know why decided to sheep me onto patchwork but i don't think im gonna get an answer

I was pressuring patchwork. I am not sure I did my votes/unvotes correctly though.

[gob]

my reads right now are probably more this

{t3, ydrasse, jjh927, gob} these are my high confidence trs
{snivy, fire} these are my low confidence trs. they could be wrong but I don't think so.
{patchwork, prism} I am grasping at straws to tr them. These could definitely be wrong.
{andres, std, imaginality} this is my leftover pool
{Shirou} this is who I definitively think is mafia

Same thing w/ Shirou.
I would say Shirou is harder to read because they're skilled and thus it's simply just harder for Shirou to do something that can only come from town.

I am willing to hear you out on Shinrou, but the second post doesn't seem like someone who definitively thinks Shinrou is mafia.