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[Cometbright]

Yeah I'd say that Knott had been my biggest/most consistent TR in the game after Python and Gimli, who are both dead. And VIP's vote doesn't feel scummy.

Knott being your biggest/most consistent TR baffles me but very well.

Care to explain why?

You think there's nothing at all scummy about someone being put to E-1 straight out the gate with significant overlap between the Gimli town execute and the rapid-fire E-1 wagon? I don't really view you as scummy for the first vote, but you don't think the sheer speed and time at which it picked up has anything weird at all about it?

[Dannflor]

Hi Dann, are we then to conf TR you as you wouldn't take the role if Black had not been town, is that what you are saying?

that comment was mainly directed at Dragon if-town

he's basing part of his scum read on my slot based on another game that just ended where i was correctly scum reading black

I think I've built up a pretty solid mental model of black as a player since then, I'm not like infallible, but I'll just say I was pretty sure I was replacing into a town slot

do with that what you will

[Cometbright]

Hm. Which one was the first time? Timmer or me?

Actually mistake on my part - this is the second time Knott has put someone to E-1 unannounced. I thought he had put you at E-1 unannounced but that was actually Dragon. The votes were pretty close together in time so I got em confused.

First time in that case was Timmer in #684 (was not actually E-1 but mod error in votecount had Timmer at E-2 in the votecount right before Knott voted).

What if he wanted to stay away from the Gimli wagon because he knew what the flip would be?

Possible - though I don't know how effective this would be because he was pretty openly shading Gimli - he was voting Black *because* he saw Gimli as scum if I recall correctly.

That's Dragon and me. Knott was voting for Black at that time.

Knott was voting for Black because of Gimli being scum - so I kind of count it as pseudo being on the wagon because for it to make sense he would have to believe Gimli was scum.

[Cometbright]

The Black loss blows

Hey Dannflor!

[Cometbright]

dragon can you explain how you emotionally went from this:

Frankly he's been very erratic this game if you ISO him. It's why I'm having a lot of trouble reading him.

[Dannflor]

I have a question for you though: what made you feel Black was town before you repped? Maybe I can also see it.

I'll post about this like exactly once because I don't think this is gonna be very useful for many people in this game. but since you asked

largely, town Black is a lot more reactive than scum Black. Black enjoys scum a lot and she tends to take on a proactive role in her games, whether that's distancing with a buddy or pushing a miselim or just generally sowing discord

Black's early game here is very relaxed and gave me the vibes of her being content to let information filter in and figure out the game that way

it's quite the stark contrast the game i just finished playing with her where within 5 pages of the game starting she'd launched a pretty hefty push against her scum partner and myself and was pretty invested in getting herself town read and establishing herself as a major player in this game

in her town games her approach to the game doesn't focus so much on establishing herself in the town core, she's content to play the detective role and *figure the game out*, and I felt her ISO here matched the latter model much more closely

[Cometbright]

I am fine with being elimmed today, but that doesn't mean I think we should waste this day phase without scum hunting and pressuring people.

My problem here is that not only was it a very quick E-1, it happened when literally none but the three people on Black wagon at the time had even posted. What discussion/pressure was there to even be had?

[Dannflor]

Like I think if someone quickhammer(ed) Black they'd be autolimmed tomorrow.

But maybe I am stupid and that's not how it works in Newbies.

with how many wagons got to E-1 or got almost quick hammered D1 I am skeptical about this

particularly when you felt the need to call this out specifically earlier?

Python you wanted to generate content by jumping on wagons, didn't you? Let's do this.

VOTE: black

NOTE: DO NOT HAMMER BLACK OR YOU WILL BE POLICY LIMMED

like this does not give me the impression you think a quick hammer would necessarily be auto elimmed the next day

[DragonEater70]

I have a question for you though: what made you feel Black was town before you repped? Maybe I can also see it.

I'll post about this like exactly once because I don't think this is gonna be very useful for many people in this game. but since you asked

largely, town Black is a lot more reactive than scum Black. Black enjoys scum a lot and she tends to take on a proactive role in her games, whether that's distancing with a buddy or pushing a miselim or just generally sowing discord

Black's early game here is very relaxed and gave me the vibes of her being content to let information filter in and figure out the game that way

it's quite the stark contrast the game i just finished playing with her where within 5 pages of the game starting she'd launched a pretty hefty push against her scum partner and myself and was pretty invested in getting herself town read and establishing herself as a major player in this game

in her town games her approach to the game doesn't focus so much on establishing herself in the town core, she's content to play the detective role and *figure the game out*, and I felt her ISO here matched the latter model much more closely

I... can actually see it.

Very well.

UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

like this does not give me the impression you think a quick hammer would necessarily be auto elimmed the next day

I think it should. I know sometimes it doesn't because people are stupid.

[Dannflor]

dragon can you go into detail on your Afrayed read

[DragonEater70]

My problem here is that not only was it a very quick E-1, it happened when literally none but the three people on Black wagon at the time had even posted. What discussion/pressure was there to even be had?

Good point, but I don't control who is and isn't online. I put pressure on people and wait for them to respond, even if it takes a replacement or 3 real life days for them to respond or whatever.

[Cometbright]

I don't understand the bolded part.

You and Dragon are in my limpool as I said at the end of Day 1 and VIP is somewhere in null at the moment. I'm asking if the three of you all see each other as townie and this as a genuine townie push against a (presumable) scum!Black/Dann or if you think someone on there is taking advantage of the push - which has implications. Since I view the three of you as either scummy or null, I think you know my opinion on the matter.

try these to start 190388470480565567577647

190 says you view Timmer as scummy. 388 says you view Anen/VIP as scummy. 470 says you view Comet as scummy. 480 says you view Timmer as scummy. 565 says you view Black as scummy (because you think Gimli is scum). 567 is your reasoning for voting Timmer. 577 is you saying you're confident in Timmer scum. 647 is you saying once again you view Black as scummy because she's covering for Gimli!scum.

How is any of that relevant to this Black vote/your progression on it...? If anything isn't it pointing to the exact opposite because Gimli flipped town?

[Cometbright]

483 yes I sheep there and I will freely admit that. but that is becasue i am consistent in most of my reads. yes they fluctuate but they do show a core consistency

Python is a strong player - not contesting that - but they did push a Gimli wagon into a subsequent Gimli townflip. Does that not make you waver even a little? Why take Python's reads over say, Gimli's reads? He flipped town too.

If you're consistent in your reads, then why the sudden Black e-1 over voting Timmer? Don't you confidently view him as scum? Because all I've really seen regarding your own reasoning for Black!scum has been tied to trying to cover/protect scum!Gimli... who flipped town. I just don't get your reasoning here - and that's not a good sign when you're apparently confident enough to put a wagon to E-1 unannounced.

I feel confident though that Timmer is a scum.

[DragonEater70]

dragon can you go into detail on your Afrayed read

Absolutely:

1. I liked this, it seemed genuine:

I don’t care if you lean scum on me. I play scummy all the time even when town. Which you’d be surprise to hear that I am. So lean away.

2. He then went on an entire fucking crusade (posts 181 - 190 arguing with VIP and Timmer about why their pushes on him are wrong, while nobody else even cared about these pushes (at least in my perception). I see this as town behavior, because I feel usually scum are pretty hesitant to do stuff like this, since it might draw attention / cause people to focus on why they are being scumread. I also just know that this is more something I've seen myself do as town than as scum. Especially the part of defending yourself from something others aren't even paying attention to - you want to minimize how much attention goes to you as scum, usually.

3. I just feel like his entire game makes zero sense as scum. Unless he's either a VERY eccentric person (which I don't have a reason to think he is), or a super gambity scum player who uses refuge in audacity like a pro (which I also don't have a reason to believe he is), I just don't see scum playing the way that he has. None of his posts feel motivated by a desire to survive to endgame or to find reasons to mislim townies. He's just playing like a really lost townie.

[DragonEater70]

190 says you view Timmer as scummy. 388 says you view Anen/VIP as scummy. 470 says you view Comet as scummy. 480 says you view Timmer as scummy. 565 says you view Black as scummy (because you think Gimli is scum). 567 is your reasoning for voting Timmer. 577 is you saying you're confident in Timmer scum. 647 is you saying once again you view Black as scummy because she's covering for Gimli!scum.

How is any of that relevant to this Black vote/your progression on it...? If anything isn't it pointing to the exact opposite because Gimli flipped town?

I sometimes wish I was as good at this game as Comet.

(Sorry for the pocket attempt, Gimli is dead so I have to have someone to be friends with)

[Cometbright]

I sometimes wish I was as good at this game as Comet.

Frankly I think you'd have better luck with a Magic 8 Ball, but I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Just as a heads-up it's still between you and Knott right now in my head - I just think Knott's vote was a lot worse than your vote.

Also as an aside, tonight's a bit hectic for me so might not be around to post! Will endeavour to try and at least read over and reply to anything urgent before I head off to bed though.

[Aneninen]

Sorry, everyone.
This is not working for me anymore.

@Mod, replace me out.

Have fun!

[fferyllt]

Searching for a replacement for Aneninem...

[DragonEater70]

Just as a heads-up it's still between you and Knott right now in my head - I just think Knott's vote was a lot worse than your vote.

I can totally see you thinking that - definitely aligns with my model of how you operate.

Have fun!

Thanks! Sorry it's not working for you though.

[fferyllt]

Merlyn replaces Aneninen. Please welcome her!

[fferyllt]

Also, reminder! If you need to replace out, don't announce it in the game thread. Send me a PM and I'll handle it from there.

This is a site rule.

Thanks!

[DragonEater70]

Yoooo Merlyn!

Wait, am I supposed to pretend I don't know Merlyn if every time I was on the same playerlist as her, I was a rep-in and she died before I even repped into the game?

Ignoring Weird Dreams Redux, because, yeah.

[Merlyn]

Yoooo Merlyn!

Wait, am I supposed to pretend I don't know Merlyn if every time I was on the same playerlist as her, I was a rep-in and she died before I even repped into the game?

Ignoring Weird Dreams Redux, because, yeah.

Yoooo we finally play together!

[Merlyn]

I'll catch up after work today all