Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[usesPython]

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

[DragonEater70]

Also Wiz could definitely be scum here.

This is pretty spicy

Is it?

VOTE: wiz

VOTE: Wiz

I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

Yah

Also, Naerys is limbait 99% of the time.

[AnimatedWiz]

I, personally, am finding myself scumreading Wartortle—I admit it’s just base intuition for that read, though.

Please elaborate on this

Every post I read of his strikes me as… alteriorly-motivated? It’s a very weird feeling to try to describe, but that’s the best word to use, I suppose.

I’m personally wondering if the early timing of this read has led me astray (since I don’t have much else to go off of), so that might change—or even maybe I’m subconsciously opposed to Wartortle mostly due to him thinking

I’m

scummy?

I just feel like Wartortle is trying to do a lot of persuading very early off of very little, which could be a playstyle thing… but as of now, best scumread I have.

[AnimatedWiz]

Complaining about RVS and a lack of content at the end of page 1 just felt… unnatural? His subsequent posts have been read through that lens, which has likely colored my view of him in a way that’s different from what y’all have been seeing.

[Naerys]

Also, Naerys is limbait 99% of the time.

Scum keeps underestimating me tho

[DragonEater70]

Scum keeps underestimating me tho

That's true

I wasn't trying to say you are a bad player lol

[DragonEater70]

Every post I read of his strikes me as… alteriorly-motivated?

I mean I can see that with regard to his Page 1 posts, but what about other pages? I don't feel his thought process on THS v. OWER was ulteriorly-motivated.

or even maybe I’m subconsciously opposed to Wartortle mostly due to him thinking I’m
scummy?

That sounds like a reasonable explanation of it

I just feel like Wartortle is trying to do a lot of persuading very early off of very little, which could be a playstyle thing… but as of now, best scumread I have.

It definitely reads as a playstyle thing to me. But Okay, it's your biggest SR. Who's your second biggest? Who are your TRs?

[AnimatedWiz]

His posts on THS are, to me, a very strong argument for so early on—likely to pressure THS like everyone else was with their votes, though. While I can see a townie logic behind the strategy, I don’t want to ignore what my gut’s saying just yet. I’m sure that I’ll have that better sorted as we see more from him.

I don’t feel like I have any other substantial reads just yet—most everyone who’s posted is either a bit suspicious in my opinion, or null from not having posted much (we still have two players who haven’t said anything, after all). I tend to start out being suspicious of everyone, so it always takes a bit for me to townread someone early on.

[AnimatedWiz]

I will say, I am appreciating you, Python, and Smiley providing a lot of thoughts on these posts—I think that being able to see them as D1 goes on will allow me to sort y’all far easier due to the volume of material (and being able to see the trajectory of it through time).

[DragonEater70]

Wow I'm actually getting a Newbie game vibe out of this game, which is enjoyable because Newbies are pretty enjoyable I'd say.

Anyhow, time to powerwolf.

His posts on THS are, to me, a very strong argument for so early on

Is that scummy?

likely to pressure THS like everyone else was with their votes, though

WDYM?

I don’t feel like I have any other substantial reads just yet—most everyone who’s posted is either a bit suspicious in my opinion, or null from not having posted much (we still have two players who haven’t said anything, after all). I tend to start out being suspicious of everyone, so it always takes a bit for me to townread someone early on.

Are your reads normally like this early? Or do you normally have more townreads?

I'm aware there are two players who haven't posted and I'm definitely considering the possibility that one or both could be scum, but that doesn't really stop me from having reads on anyone else.

I will say, I am appreciating you, Python, and Smiley providing a lot of thoughts on these posts—I think that being able to see them as D1 goes on will allow me to sort y’all far easier due to the volume of material (and being able to see the trajectory of it through time).

Okay that's another thing that concerns me - are we all null to you? Or are we all suspicious to you? How come?

[AnimatedWiz]

To me, the argument feels like it‘s somewhat forced, which could either be due to Wartortle being scum and trying to lead us elsewhere early on, or due to trying to generate pressure on THS and see what shakes loose as a result.

THS getting a bunch of votes (5 in the first 100 posts) is applied pressure—most players in that situation defend themselves by making a case or answering questions, and that pressure is either heightened or relieved on how satisfactory that defense is.

Usually I’m a bit slower to develop solid reads than other players, yes—I would like to say I’m through about them, but a better word is perhaps “exacting.”

I wasn’t trying to say that other players not having posted prevents me from reading others entirely—however, I will say that my reads often come easier with more people to compare to each other. Juxtaposition is often a great tool for me.

[AnimatedWiz]

And I think I might have not communicated what I meant properly—I was not implying that the three of y’all I mentioned were specifically null or suspicious for having a lot of thoughts, just that y’all communicating them frequently was nice because it’ll help me get a better read on y’all as time goes on.

Out of the three of y’all, Python strikes me as towniest (though not enough to be a confident townread). I am unsure of how I feel about their actions so far, but they seem to be very concise and clear about their thoughts and that has made me more willing to trust them—it allows for less misinterpretation for me, and less wiggle room to escape from for them.

Smiley is in the middle for me, mostly due to having the least substantive posts out of this trio—not a bad thing, but I just have the least to go off of here. Still, I like that are asking questions and trying to connect people’s posts through time.

You are last in that list, as while you’re very meticulous with your questions to me (which to me rings as someone who wants to learn from the rest of the town to better cooperate later on), the repeated joke about openwolfing (and your subsequent behavior of trying to take charge and posting a lot) makes me pause, as it could very easily be a cover for actually openwolfing. After all, if you say you’ll pocket someone in a joking manner, you have a defense prepped in case anyone accuses you of it later.


You’ve also been very, uh, flip-floppy so far? It’s not bad to change your reads early, but the way you’ve kind of announced your intent to lead and be convincing is a mismatch with your actual reads and votes. You have more questions that reads, and those questions tend to have a lot more text than your own feelings on things (not all the time the though—posts like 118 are substantial). Additionally, you seem to be making a lot of strong arguments with lacking evidence in the vein of what I was talking about with Wartortle (like 118, again), and also sort of collaborating with him? I wouldn’t call it a partnership or anything, but I do want to note that you have supported his theories.

[AnimatedWiz]

I, uh, didn’t know those would be wallposts, sorry!

[DragonEater70]

Usually I’m a bit slower to develop solid reads than other players, yes

Hmm, I see. A quick meta dive makes me hesitant to believe you about this, because you had more early reads in Mini 2311 than in Mini 2313, but I will say that there are things in your play that could be more similar to 2311 than 2313.

Juxtaposition is often a great tool for me.

That is pretty valid, I'll give you that.



However, I noticed a lot of your thoughts are "I could see this being either town or scum", which is slightly concerning because it's exactly the opposite of what you praise Python for - how can you be held accountable if you don't take stances?

Additionally, the thing that initially prompted me to scumread you was your complete lack of read on the THS vs OWER situation. I feel you kinda skirted around it by asking Afrayed for HIS read on THS and then saying you didn't like Tortle's aggressivenes - but I want to know what's YOUR read on THS/OWER. Do you think one of them is scum? Who? Or do you think both/neither are scum?

I was not implying that the three of y’all I mentioned were specifically null or suspicious for having a lot of thoughts

I know, I was looking at different posts and trying to figure out what you were saying, since you said "most everyone who’s posted is either a bit suspicious in my opinion, or null from not having posted much" (outside of Tortle), and then mentioned that this Trio will be more readable LATER ON because we gave content - so I wanted to verify whether or not you are saying that we aren't readable right now.

while you’re very meticulous with your questions to me (which to me rings as someone who wants to learn from the rest of the town to better cooperate later on)

Nah it's just me trying to pressure everything I can until you either mafslip or show yourself to be town.

the repeated joke about openwolfing (and your subsequent behavior of trying to take charge and posting a lot) makes me pause,

as it could very easily be a cover for actually openwolfing

Okay this made me chuckle. Of course it's not a cover for openwolfing, I am ACTUALLY openwolfing. Which alignment I'm doing this is the only question. But just so it's clear, I decided to play in an intentionally scummy way because I like trying out different playstyles and I feel this playstyle is the most fitting for this game.

Also, I don't really feel I've tried to take charge, but if you do feel that way then that flatters me.

After all, if you say you’ll pocket someone in a joking manner, you have a defense prepped in case anyone accuses you of it later.

Hmmm, the thing is - have I actually done anything to pocket Naerys? Not really. Saying I would pocket her is entirely an in-joke based on the fact that I think Naerys is a fiercely independent person who will never agree to be pocketed. Maybe if I bribe her with some chocolate she will change her mind though...

You’ve also been very, uh, flip-floppy so far? It’s not bad to change your reads early, but the way you’ve kind of announced your intent to lead and be convincing is a mismatch with your actual reads and votes.

I don't think I announced any intent to lead? Where have I done that?

Regarding flip-flopping, yes I've changed my a few of my reads because this is early and they're mostly weak reads and I'm adapting them as the situation evolves and people post more content. It actually gives me pause that you are pointing it out as something that gives you pause - do you expect me to stick to my page 1 scumlean of tortle after he's provided plenty more content to read him off of? Should I continue voting Smiley after it was affirmed to me that he is being towny and in his town meta (by people who know him better than me), and that his thought process matches the thought process of other townies?

This actually feels like a weird shade you are throwing my way, sorry to say that.

[Naerys]

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

I believe that putting some pressure on THS cant hurt anything

[BlackStar]

The interaction between DragonEater and Annie feels TvT to me

[DragonEater70]

You have more questions that reads, and those questions tend to have a lot more text than your own feelings on things (not all the time the though—posts like 118 are substantial).

I'm not sure I agree. I did post quite a few questions, but i also posted quite a few original thoughts - I just counted and aside from the last few posts interrogating you (which are that way BECAUSE they are interrogation), the ratio of original thoughts to asking other players about their thoughts is about 2 to 1 in favor of original thoughts (yeah I know, being overly concerned with yourself is scummy yada yada - the point is that I think Wiz is stretching the truth here quite wildly).

Additionally, you seem to be making a lot of strong arguments with lacking evidence in the vein of what I was talking about with Wartortle (like 118, again),

and also sort of collaborating with him?

Not sure what you mean by this

Do you not normally collaborate with your townreads?

[DragonEater70]

The interaction between DragonEater and Annie feels TvT to me

Who're your scumreads?

[DragonEater70]

Also I just wanna say:

While I believe a lot (all?) of Ani's posting could come from town, I've caught scum early game in the past and then let them go because it was "TvT". I want to continue this until I actually feel confident about Wiz one way or another.

[BlackStar]

The interaction between DragonEater and Annie feels TvT to me

Who're your scumreads?

Smileydude and TheHoldSteady

[BlackStar]

What about you?

[Naerys]

What about you?

Well... this feels like buddying scum
this post feels so off

[BlackStar]

What about you?

Well... this feels like buddying scum
this post feels so off

How?

[DragonEater70]

I'm not sure :/

Smiley and THS I was scumreading at some point as well as OWER, but none of these are as strong right now as they were.

I think I want to see more posts from all three of them honestly.

Why are you scumreading these two?

Pedit: I don't really agree Naerys :/

[Naerys]

Pedit: I don't really agree Naerys :

Thats okay