Open 888 | Welcome to Feryland! -- End!

[Cometbright]

Apologies if I missed it Merlyn, but have you said who you think Timmer's scumpartner is?

Same to you Timmer - if Merlyn is scum then who's the scumpartner?

[Cometbright]

I mean if timmer is scum than afrayed is 100% town by virtue of merlyn's inno?

Right duh I'm dumb.

[Cometbright]

Funnily enough when I was browsing through Timmer scumpartners my first thought was "I think frankly I come out of this looking the most partnered."

[Cometbright]

Top of my head I think it was the frustration bit when he and Black had that mini discussion and he started properly engaging? I'll have to ISO to get you a more firm answer though.

[Cometbright]

Oh the Knott/Timmer e-1 interactions were a pretty good driver for it too - I was reading scum into Knott then so seeing him pushing at Timmer like that made me go "Well I'm more confident in Knott!scum so by virtue that makes Timmer town."

[Cometbright]

I'm not capable of processing more than four things actively in my head at once so I'm just gonna write you off as town here Dann (you can thank Black for it).

Teams in my head...

Timmer/Kittie, Merlyn/Kittie, Merlyn/Knott.

Mathematically that makes Merlyn the better execute - unless I'm Monty Hall-ing myself here.

[Cometbright]

That's... certainly a string of posts.

[Cometbright]

There's a lot to unpack here, so lets just throw out the whole suitcase.

Right now I’m swinging towards Comet. So tunneled on me it’s like OMGUS x 2

I think this is a bit of an unfair interpretation. My main sticking points against you have been for reasons not involved with you scumreading me. For example, how does me pushing you on putting people to E-1 have anything to do with OMGUS? I wasn't the one being put to E-1.

what?

It'll take too long to explain - it's not particularly important so you can google it if you're curious.

Basically you are so tunnelled on me its unbelievable, listed to DE maybe...

Ironically I actually was coming around to you being town today - I haven't tried to push you at all. All this E-1 discussion was actually me saying you *weren't* in a scum-team with Timmer yet you're arguing with me over it.

Why is this so difficult, As far as I understand Ochum's Razor we lynch Merlyn or Timmer. my vote is on Merlyn

my vote above for Comet is because she is entering my OMGUS radar, and she really needs to take a Valium.

Do you really think voting outside of Merlyn/Timmer to get me to 'take a Valium' is at all productive/sensible? Genuinely curious here.

[Cometbright]

E-2 I THINK COMET?

Idk why you're being so foul about this.

I like this as an alternative lim.... WIFOM???

You are genuinely considering an alternative lim on me today here?

interesting you might say that , after Dann , who just became your best pocket buddy, said that the Timmer/Knott combo is not happening...

Do you think there might be an alternative reason? Such as #1204 when I realise that Merlyn clearing you as town means that you literally cannot be in a scumteam with Timmer?

hmmmm, this just does not feel right. so town, but also, so not town....

You think me asking the pair involved in a 1v1 who they think the other scum is might be scummy?

[Cometbright]

Obviously I'm still not voting outside of Merlyn or Timmer today but... wow.

[Cometbright]

I'm curious then. You think I'm scum because I'm OMGUS-ing you. What reasons do you have for pushing/voting me that aren't related to my own past pushes on you?

[Cometbright]

I mean I guess unless he's panicking because he thinks his scum buddy merlyn is goin to be limmed and throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks

This was my interpretation of it.

[Cometbright]

I dunno. It's just so anti-town to even vote outside of Merlyn/Timmer here that I'm struggling to see this from a town perspective. Am I overthinking this?

[Cometbright]

Like again my game theory knowledge isn't amazing but is there a realistic scenario where we don't resolve the counterclaim today?

[Cometbright]

I'm moving away from Kittie, And totally FOCUSED on you after Merlyn. tell me why I shouldn't be?

Your answer to "Why are you pushing me?" is "Tell me why I shouldn't be pushing you."?

[Cometbright]

I mean if I had actually been pushing you like I had been Day 1/Day 2 then on sooome level I could expect push-back courtesy of OMGUS but the weird thing is I haven't even been pushing you today. I've said as much at the start of the day that I'm not voting outside of Merlyn/Timmer and the times you've came up today I've been actually saying you were the less likely scum. I don't understand what the town!Knott perspective here is at all... why actively try to push/vote me (and even inquire about executing me over the 1v1) here?

[Cometbright]

You see this as town outburst, Dann?

[Cometbright]

TELL ME WHY I AM WRONG?

whatever,, scum Comet..

?

[Cometbright]

He's the only other person currently present so yes, I'm going to talk to him?

[Cometbright]

He is town, I don't know what to tell you

Check the PM again please

[Cometbright]

wow... read it all and answer the question please

I did. You dismissed it with:

whatever,, scum Comet..

[Cometbright]

Guys... what do you want me to do here? Like seriously?

[Cometbright]

Knott - you have ignored and dismissed all my questions towards you and insisted I have not answered your questions while dismissing my answers in the same breath. You've have inquired about starting a wagon on *me* despite the fact we have an active counterclaim situation between Merlyn and Timmer where we KNOW with 100% certainty that at least one of them is scum - you have done this knowing that voting a townie here automatically loses us the game.

Are you actually willing to listen?

[Cometbright]

I think this is a bit of an unfair interpretation. My main sticking points against you have been for reasons not involved with you scumreading me. For example, how does me pushing you on putting people to E-1 have anything to do with OMGUS? I wasn't the one being put to E-1.

Do you really think voting outside of Merlyn/Timmer to get me to 'take a Valium' is at all productive/sensible? Genuinely curious here.

You are genuinely considering an alternative lim on me today here?

Do you think there might be an alternative reason? Such as #1204 when I realise that Merlyn clearing you as town means that you literally cannot be in a scumteam with Timmer?

You think me asking the pair involved in a 1v1 who they think the other scum is might be scummy?

I'm curious then. You think I'm scum because I'm OMGUS-ing you. What reasons do you have for pushing/voting me that aren't related to my own past pushes on you?

I mean if I had actually been pushing you like I had been Day 1/Day 2 then on sooome level I could expect push-back courtesy of OMGUS but the weird thing is I haven't even been pushing you today. I've said as much at the start of the day that I'm not voting outside of Merlyn/Timmer and the times you've came up today I've been actually saying you were the less likely scum. I don't understand what the town!Knott perspective here is at all... why actively try to push/vote me (and even inquire about executing me over the 1v1) here?

He's the only other person currently present so yes, I'm going to talk to him?

[Cometbright]

But is it conducive to actually winning the game?

Do you think pursuing this wagon on me today has helped the game?

[Cometbright]

For what it's worth I'm fairly certain I answered your questions - as hard as it was to distinguish between questions and you slinging accusations. If you can list any that I didn't answer then I'll answer them too.

[Cometbright]

because I have put them there without telling everyone that I was.. and I had no idea it was, 1, a thing and 2. in your eyes, incorrect,

But how is this OMGUS? You specifically said I was resorting to OMGUS with my pushes on you - what does me saying I found you putting people (who weren't me) to E-1 without warning have to do with OMGUS?

No I genuinely feel you could actually be Merlyn's partner

Are you going to elaborate more...? I can't really defend/respond without your actual reasons.

let's talk, but THAT is not a question, is it

I'll rephrase - you think me asking Dann about what he said in #1241 was me trying to pocket him? As opposed to asking him because he was actively present in the thread?

[Cometbright]

why should I believe you are town?

Why do you think every player other than you is reading me as town? (Correct me if I'm wrong other people.)

The lazy answer is 'read my ISO' but I suppose if I had to come up with specific reasons at the top of my head, I haven't been involved in any of the town execute wagons, I've been active, I've usually explained myself pretty well whenever I've been accused of something, I've been engaged in scumhunting, I've tried to spark discussion/activity... really it's a subjective question - I believe I'm town because I know I'm town. If you can point to things showing otherwise then please feel free to do so.

[Cometbright]

then do so

I asked you to elaborate as to why I'm Merlyn's partner. What are you saying here?

[Cometbright]

oh come on.. Timmer laid it all down quiet clearly... the set up works in his explanation, there is no counter claim to refute what you are saying, so just role red and be done with it. why we are even delaying this is painful

So you fully believe Timmer is Jailkeeper and trust his judgement?

[Cometbright]

In an nutshell. Why should I believe anyone, why should I believe you? and why should you feel it important to convince me otherwise?

You... asked me to?

[Cometbright]

Scum are loving this.. aren't you Merlyn

You started this whole thing!!!!!!!!!!!

What is this

[Cometbright]

I...

I'm going to bed.

[Cometbright]

I'm probably ready to hammer but I'll wait to see if comet has anything more they want to say

In regards to Merlyn vs Timmer I think I've said all I've wanted to really. I get the sense you'd prefer future discussions on the second scum to happen tomorrow, which is fair enough.

[Cometbright]

Feel free to hammer - or let me hammer. Just in case you wanted to poke at anything else I'll hammer in 24 hours from now if you don't.

[Cometbright]

Well here I was conflicted between two possible options in my head and now it seems we get the chance to do two executes here - awesome.

Obviously need to hear who Timmer jailkept, though I feel like I have a pretty good idea of it in my head.

[Cometbright]

Well ignore me - I was sort of expecting that Timmer would have jailkept Knott after how Day 3 ended but in hindsight yeah his paranoia and the posts about having a theory on someone and not wanting to say that would line up with Dann.

Interesting. I have to believe that Timmer is fully legit jailkeeper here after Day 3, so unless scum intentionally no-killed then that would indicate Dann. I guess I’ll have to properly give a look at interactions between VIP and Black here - I really thought her reaction to the fake hammer didn’t seem like a scum seeing her partner get hammered but then Black is a very good scum player…

[Cometbright]

But then scum no killing here would be so risky - the only reason I could think of would be to try and frame someone but given the no kill means we get in an extra execute here (if we vote town here today we still get one last chance tomorrow) I can’t see how that would ever be a worthwhile trade…

[Cometbright]

I think is game is solvable.

[Cometbright]

I think is game is solvable.

'This' - even.

@Fferyllt if we get into a situation where after executing Dann we only have four left, does town win in the event that scum chooses to repeatedly no-kill? When I first played back in 2016 I think the consensus was that it would be a draw but I saw a recent game where Dragoneater was scum where I believe he was debating doing this in scumchat and the mod decision was that it was up to scum to actively kill and choosing to no kill for 3 nights in a row would default to a town victory. What is your take on the matter?

Mod Notes

Quoting to ping you

[Cometbright]

Afrayed Knott has requested replacement. Searching...

Oh

[Cometbright]

So in the scenario that Dann is town Kittie, you think I would be the other scum here?

[Cometbright]

In your hypothetical, would Town be choosing to no-elim during the days? If not, I would let the game play out.

The idea would be that if Dann is executed then Timmer picks between Knott/WhemeStar and Kittie to constantly jailkeep and tells us who it is and we keep voting for no execution. If mafia gets picked then obviously no kills will happen, if he picks town then if mafia kills Timmer or me then we know for 100% that it's the person who wasn't jailkept and if mafia chooses over and over to no kill then the question would be who wins in that circumstance.

It sounds like that would result in a draw so disregard.

[Cometbright]

Can someone answer if jailkeeper was claimed before today

Jailkeeper was claimed yesterday by Timmer and he was counterclaimed by Merlyn who we proceeded to execute and she flipped as scum.

[Cometbright]

Judging from no death last night we have town jail keeper right

Interesting - this is you having read basically none of the thread right? Given you're asking if there's a jailkeeper.

Why wouldn't you be considering a potential doctor here? That would also stop a night kill.

[Cometbright]

Mafia could have no-killed here but I'm confused at the motive. At night I was of the mindset that mafia is between Knott/WhemeStar and Kittie and that we would come into a 4-man day and have to decide between them... assuming Dann is town then mafia no-killing does indeed frame him but best-case scenario for them all it does is result in us executing Dann and then another night happening where they either kill or no-kill again and we enter Day 5 in the exact scenario again where it's between Knott/WhemeStar and Kittie.

Basically, why would scum no-kill? The main reason I can think of is to frame whoever is jailkept and to give no information to jailkeeper about who isn't scum (because the person jailkept is definitely not scum if a kill happens)... but Timmer specifically didn't share who he was jailing last night so why not just... kill him at night and force us into a Dann/Comet/Kittie/Knott showdown with no hard proof pointing to or clearing anyone?

[Cometbright]

Sorry - had a Halloween party.

Comet has been there but not there, a presence but never pushing the game forward.

To that I have to say, pot meet kettle. You think that I haven't been pushing the game forward despite me pretty much pointing out "Knott scum" for the last 4 days who you now currently view as potential scum? I feel like if I was scum the win condition would be pretty easy here - kill Timmer in the night and pursue a wagon on either Knott or Kittie slot - I feel like honestly I'd get away with that pretty easily. This whole no-kill thing definitely wouldn't have been my play, and Timmer has been very upfront that he townreads me so I wouldn't have had to worry about being jailkept myself either.

Where are you guys leaning on things?

I feel like it's probably a Dann lim today because I just can't see it being a good idea to ignore the no-kill when he was nightkilled. Is there a chance it's a frame? Definitely - but there's no reason frankly not to take it because we're entering tomorrow with the exact same circumstance we would have been in if scum hadn't no-killed anyway - having to decide between Knott/Wheme and Kittie.

Now that choice is more difficult, I think gun-to-head I would vote for Wheme tomorrow and I would advise you to jail them. There's literally 0 chance scum will kill so we'll all be around to discuss it (aside from whoever today's lim is) anyhow.

I mean touch-wood Dann flips scum - I'd frankly give it a 50/50 - he was (and still frankly might be) my top town read aside from the jailkeeper but if we don't elim him today it's going to be a mess tomorrow.

[Cometbright]

*"ignore the no-kill when he was jailkept.' even.

[Cometbright]

I'm not necessarily against it, it just changes tomorrow from Kittie/Wheme to Dann/Wheme.

Might even be a little cleaner given I think Kittie is scumreading me? Changes tomorrow from Kittie vs Comet vs Wheme to Wheme vs Dann.

I do think you should definitely confirm who you're targeting here before the day ends Timmer as it forces mafia to no-kill or automatically lose.

[Cometbright]

Claiming who you target not gonna do much

It means with 100% certainty Timmer doesn't die tonight as mafia would lose if they do so. I wouldn't even really bother with trying to be sneaky and see if you can catch mafia - as we've seen with this Dann thing, even being jailkept and there being no-kill doesn't mean it's a slam-dunk anyhow.

What would we get out of not having it out in the open?

[Cometbright]

Huh

[Cometbright]

We probably do have to vote between Dann and Wheme here don't we? We can't really have this during actual ELO.

[Cometbright]

I mean pure scumreading wise I'd prefer to vote Wheme - I've been pretty open about seeing Knott as pretty scummy all throughout the game - Wheme himself has had these weird role slipups (forgetting doctor, this whole 'roleblocker' business) which I don't like very much.

Dann being jailkept really just comes down to exactly the question I asked at the start of this day - did scum intentionally no-kill or did scum get stopped from killing (aka it was Dann) and how likely do we think either option is. I mentioned before it's like a 50/50 and I still don't think my attitude has changed much regarding that - I would be content with a lim on Dann because of it... but I also acknowledge that Dann is one of my top townreads tbh and I've quite liked his posts today.

From my perspective there's two paths:
- Execute Dann today and tomorrow in the Wheme/Kittie versus, probably execute Wheme?
- Execute Wheme today and prooooobably execute Dann tomorrow. (Kittie maybe but idk, a Wheme townflip makes me laser in much more on Dann than her).

[Cometbright]

Because while I see kitties posting from coming from town only the posts comet made at start of day can come from Either town or scum

Oh out of curiosity did you ever read the rest of the thread or did you only read today?

[Cometbright]

And if this is you setting up for a proper push on me tomorrow (assuming you survive today) I'd actually be pretty interested in what you think of your slot's pushes on me (the Day 3 one was a whammy, you'll love it).

[Cometbright]

Oh dw it's alright to ask other people about me - the "Huh" was focused on that long Dann vs Wheme thingy with the self-voting discussion.

[Cometbright]

I get the impression that Dann is 100% set on Wheme!scum here while Wheme is like only 80% set on Dann!scum? At least judging by the discussions on me being scummy here, that would imply he thinks that there's a chance I'm scum (hence Dann can't be scum) if I'm interpreting that right?

[Cometbright]

Kittie you're the mystery slot here - I feel like I have a pretty good idea on where everyone is standing aside from you, you've voiced suspicion on me, Knott/Wheme and Dann today - you voted Dann but then unvoted him, right now - who do you feel most comfortable voting for out of that three? If the person you vote flips town, who then becomes your top suspect?

[Cometbright]

Not Voting (3): Cometbright, TimmerRC, Kittiesecret

Timmer is voting Wheme according to #1484

[Cometbright]

Consider my vote spiritually on Wheme but not there yet because I assume Dann isn't going to keep his vote on himself for long if the Wheme wagon looks viable and I don't want a sudden hammer like Day 2 again.

[Cometbright]

GG!

You played the end there as best you could Dann - for what it's worth you very nearly got out of this day alive but when Wheme flipped town I probably would have pushed you tomorrow in all likelihood.

[Cometbright]

The replacements definitely hurt scum a lot, honestly Black/VIP scumteam would have probably screwed me.

[Cometbright]

Oh - utterly fantastic jailkeeping btw Timmer - seriously, very well played.

[Cometbright]

Like if you hadn't jailkept Dann and blocked him there resulting in a final four of me, Dann, Knott and Kittie? I would have literally never voted Dann there unless something truly bad happened.

[Cometbright]

Very curious to see scumchat here - did my fake breadcrumb get picked up on?

[Cometbright]

I spent like 20 minutes trying to awkwardly word it to get the letters to line up too ah well.

I dunno if private note threads get shown but you're alright to reveal it if you want. Nothing too interesting in there, just me being incorrect about stuff in the comfort of my own private thread.

[Cometbright]

Thank you for modding Ffery! It's been a while since I've been alive to play an endgame (although technically we never actually reached ELO but ehhh I count it) and it was fun, if a little stressful at times