Open 889 | Secrets of the Anuket Topaz | fin.

[jjh927]

so basically to me the unique teams that doesn't seem like would likely have firebringer on it are:

StD/Andres

T3/Andres

I would argue that my vote for STD, and STD’s vote for me today should make you doubt the first pairing, but I won’t disagree that Dragons is probably my most likely Partner other than say Firebringer from an objective perspective.

I said that Dragons is very likely Town to me. They had a set of posts (stuff like 2776) that remind me of my own frustration this game, and then posts like 2808 that aren’t outside of anyone’s Scum Range, but also tend to come from Town in my experience. I think it’s the combination of the two that has me looking elsewhere. I don’t know if that’s sufficiently convincing, but that’s why I felt they couldn’t be Scum.

STD never voted you

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Imaginality

[Andresvmb]

Actually, while we're thinking about this, I gave Andres way too much credit for sheeping me onto STD considering he moved off like 2 whole days before I started hopping around and now he's been talking like I owe him something for him giving me his vote

You don’t owe me anything because I gave you my vote for a bit there. Let’s get that out of the way. I don’t trust a lot of players to lead the Town in the right direction in games (I’m not saying I can btw, it’s just nice to be able to outsource some of the work whenever possible). Like I think the list of players I have in my head as having solid reads as Town is small. I won’t name any names here, but I will say that I do include you there. So I think you should be able to read me here more accurately than you are. It’s possible from my perspective that you’re Scum and have to play this way around my slot to win, but I’ll admit to thinking I don’t see you paired with gob really who remains my top SR. I do think the Scum have to keep me as an option here for sure since I’m a relatively easy mis-execution to “logically” explain from what happened D1 and D2 (though I maintain that I would have escaped by now, but I can’t convince anyone of that it seems). I’m trying to make it as painful as possible so that it’s perhaps obvious after the fact who to look into, but that’s as much as I can do.

I’ll re-read gob next, see if I change my mind.

[Andresvmb]

I’m back tonight. Don’t think I can make much of a difference anymore given my low activity, but I’ll admit to having SR’ed Titus while they were alive. The funny thing is, whenever I get that feeling, they tend to flip Town so happy I didn’t push that.

I would consider voting this

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

let's see the scum squirm onto this wagon i guess

---

(…)

You’re right - this is specifically what I was talking about. No vote came from it though.

[Andresvmb]

You know, there is a Gob wagon at the moment

There is. If we're not doing Andres I'd rather T3 than gob though. The vote count iso suggests T3 got up to 4 votes earlier but I don't recall why things moved away.

Are you firmly on the Andres + someone else train of thought? Do you think Gob is a possible Andres partner?

I think the way today's gone there's probably scum between Andres and T3.
I don't recall any reason why Andres couldn't be scum with either of T3 or gob. Or it could be gob and T3. I think any combination of those with camel could well decide camel should escape first.

I think if it were up to me our two lims would be among the three of them and if the team is something outside that, like Shirou Prism or something, well played scum.

Maybe I'd include Fire as a possible lim tomorrow.

I don't see myself voting out you, Prism, or Shirou unless there's a really good case. And I don't see myself voting out Ydrasse or StD because of gamestate.

Straight question - do you actually think I could be partnered with gob? You think I would have purposefully chosen to antagonize two of the loudest voices in the game {Prism, Shirou} by constantly pushing gob when they’re my partner? I’m still voting them. That’s where my vote ended D2 if I’m not wrong (I ended one day on Ydrasse, the other on gob but I don’t remember the exact order though I think that’s right since I voted Ydrasse while doubting Alisae and I wasn’t present enough to reconsider). So I’ve been pushing my Partner two days to the detriment of my own position without meaningfully reconsidering, even on the brink, for what reason? They’ve openly floated me and voted me too. We would have to be suicidal if we’re partnered here. I’m sure you can see that.

Just my 2 cents.

[Dannflor]

VC 3.8

Sail

imaginality [3]:

Save The Dragons, T3, Firebringer

Andresvmb [2]:

imaginality, Prism

gob [2]:

Andresvmb, jjh927

Firebringer [2]:

Lazy Shirou, gob

Not Voting [1]:

Ydrasse

With 10 on-board, it takes 6 to force someone to walk the plank. Day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-11-09 13:16:15).

Mod Notes:

[Ydrasse]

jesus christ

[Save The Dragons]

not moving my vote

[Ydrasse]

i hate every option here for various reasons! this game sucks!

[Andresvmb]

After reading every single one of gob’s posts D1/D2, it convinces me more and more they’re Scum, not less. I don’t know what else to say. I could read today and think the silly strategies being proposed come from a Town mindset, but the shading of camel (which got reversed multiple times when convenient, with some light defending, and never a vote), and the constant search for an alternative (while not ending with a vote D1, and a vote on imaginality D2, which was at one point the CW to Scum) just don’t give me any fuzzy feelings.

Can someone else tell me why those posts should be read as coming from Town?

[Ydrasse]

After reading every single one of gob’s posts D1/D2, it convinces me more and more they’re Scum, not less. I don’t know what else to say. I could read today and think the silly strategies being proposed come from a Town mindset, but the shading of camel (which got reversed multiple times when convenient, with some light defending, and never a vote), and the constant search for an alternative (while not ending with a vote D1, and a vote on imaginality D2, which was at one point the CW to Scum) just don’t give me any fuzzy feelings.

Can someone else tell me why those posts should be read as coming from Town?

i’m not trying to be difficult but whenever i’ve read gobs iso i’ve come to e opposite conclusion, and that they’re playing without tmi; when they did things like defend camel it didn’t feel like it was a buddy running interference. what do you see?

[Ydrasse]

by that i mean quotes plz

[Andresvmb]

jjh927 is also pretty towny

imginality i think just plays like that so i don't think they're scummy anymore

camel is pretty scummy for what i posted before

I still stand by what I said about the StD wagon. camelCasedSnivy, Shirou, Ydrasse, Alisae, Prism

This probably does have one scum. I'd say camel or Alisae. Prism, idk they're weird. We'll see.

so im not quite sure if it was obvious but i didn't have much to go off of that std was scum

i liked his posting after we built up a wagon on him so after some time i got off

the gob wagon feels like the same process but with different results i don't like it

HM maybe you are not scum after all.

This is in D1. How do you go from “pretty Scummy” to “maybe not scum after all” because of one post?

I think Alisae’s ISO is Scummy actually. I know they’re A LOT more competent than their ISO makes it seem like they are, and they read to me like they don’t care too much what happens here.

What about Alisae's ISO did you not like? I felt they came into the thread and fluffed it up, but they were still jumping onto the StD wagon.

i think gob, andres, shirou are all town and ydrasse + firebringer are in my probably town tier

Okay I see, you're town. I agree with everything except ydrasse.

Then there’s this, doubling down on the earlier read but not much of a direct explanation (though I will concede that having similar reads is a legitimate way of slotting someone as Town, though less believable if it’s now confirmed it was Scum). That results in this reads list:

Okay sick, I'm caught up.

Yea looking at the thread state, this is what I think.

town
camelCasedSnivy
Save The Dragons
Shirou
Ydrasse
Andresvmb
jjh927
Prism
Firebringer
T3
imaginality
Alisae
scum

null: patchwork

With camel as the strongest TR. Okay, I find that somewhat hard to believe, but not damning.

Then they openly defend camel to T3, as is consistent with the read they expressed:

[]
[gob]
[Ydrasse, STD, Shirou, Andres]
[patchwork, Prism, FIrebringer]
[imaginality] ---------- NULL LINE
[jjh, Alisae]
[camel]

VOTE: camel

That's a lot of players in my nulltown tier

Why camel? Seems to be a slot that received a bunch of shade today

Not a great look, but not inconsistent. So far, nothing terrible if you will, though certainly I think the suspicion now being shared by a few slots should have dented the strength of the read. Which perhaps is what happens, as you see here:

I would prefer to vote Imaginality over Alisae and Alisae over Snivey.

Also would like to hear more from jjh927. They had some interesting posts.

But this is still looking to avoid voting for camel despite some of the SRs and it includes a slot we know is Town right in the middle, even though they stated by then that they thought Alisae perhaps wasn’t Scum (using some of the same logic they applied to STD, see 666). They then shift their focus onto Prism for a bit, which results in some back and forth. By 891, they’re in the let’s not execute Alisae camp, but no mention of how that impacts the order of possible executions D1. If anything, they shift over to pushing Shirou / Prism, with no reasoning as to why (see 901), and by 912, it’s me, jjh, T3. I mean, my head is spinning just on the amount of proposed executions from gob, but they never seem to go back to camel. In 968, there’s some soft defending of camel to Prism, but never with what I would describe as real belief that they’re Town. Just a very unbelievable progression on the slot, as far as I read it. By 1402, they’re ready to “dump Prism”, though no vote, with an excuse that work is draining (empathize with the reason behind the emotional state, but not sure why I understand gob has refused to really pursue any of these angles with a vote). After that, they shade T3 in 1418, and discuss the potential for a vote on imaginality in 1496 but still no vote.

Where is the Towny thought process D1? I’m not seeing it. It seems defending for the sake of it (strategic, not really well thought through), and an unnatural progression on camel.
First vote on D2? Oh look - on Titus (see 1735). And you know what’s very predictable about the reasoning? They’re going after a slot that supposedly voted Alisae. But that’s just very convenient isn’t it? What differentiates any of the slots that actually voted Alisae? No explanation, outside of Titus being the “last to vote” (and is a hammer on D1 with no night and still having to avoid the broader perception of being Scum the most likely slot to flip Scum? We now know for a fact it wasn’t, but that logic was shaky still then).
They also propose a vote for Ydrasse (in 1761), but still no reasoning that differentiates any of these slots. Outside of insisting on some very basic VCA.

1840 then insists Ydrasse is Scum, and the reasoning is honestly absurd. Ydrasse, you obviously refuted it in 1847, and gob’s response is that okay that’s all fair I was full of shit, and then they move onto imaginality. So far, all I see are positions for their own sake without any real thought. Look at 1854 and tell me this isn’t a slot that’s hunting for an execution they can get away with? This keeps going, in 1993.

Now it starts getting interesting. In 2069, they offer up camel as a potential execution (and the reasoning for it is, honestly, laughable - because they’ve been “just messing around”, their Town read has totally vanished). But then, who should get executed? Ah, you get a clue in 2070, reinforced in 2096. You can guess who is decidedly not included in that summary.

For someone who claims to have reads that are insanely accurate (such as in 2206), does the shopping around for an execution make any sense to you? You’ll also notice that the focus remains on the two slots previously proposed in 2308. The funny thing is, gob declared that Titus was relatively Towny. Which to me is crazy given how Titus was acting. But even then, proposing that the focus remain on the two slots plainly doesn’t make sense.

The last post gob makes for the day is that Ydrasse voting Titus “doesn’t feel right”, and that’s it.

What am I supposed to TR? Where is the push that definitely makes them Town? Where is the anti-association with Scum? The progression on camel makes no sense to me and even more importantly, looks like basic distancing. No vote or real threat of a vote, even when going from “pretty Scummy” to “maybe not Scum” to “would lim” and “Scum?” with no real follow up, not even a mention. As the game devolved into a potential execution amongst {imaginality, Titus, camel}, not a word to confirm that they would potentially vote for camel. No analysis of the slot. No follow up to their previous read.

[Andresvmb]

To summarize, I think there’s a lot of convenient strategic placement of slots, very questionable logic, a general hunting for executions that most certainly contains Town, and very awkward defenses of the two Town slots that have actually flipped that plainly seem like TMI to me. No criticism for Titus for their ridiculous defense of a slot you SR in camel? What about the insistence to not cooperate with other slots?

[Andresvmb]

I can be wrong, and I have been wrong even in situations like this where I see a clear agenda behind every post that I sn’t to help Town.

But you can’t tell me I’m not making at least a bit of sense. The pools gob established in D2 were absurd, and don’t seem remotely likely to lead to Scum, but more importantly, were completely disregarded when saying that we should keep the focus amongst {Titus, imaginality}, one of which they actually thought was Town.

[Andresvmb]

I have to analyze D3 from them still, but at this stage of the game, I don’t buy anything coming from them and I think it’s just mis-direction.

Could this be arrogant Town that has a flawed process that is easily abandoned? Maybe? But isn’t that usually accompanied with some stronger defenses of slots they TR? I’m not seeing any of that. Like if they’re really that accurate and didn’t think Alisae or Titus were going to flip Town, where is your loud case that the biggest pushers are Scum? And you tell me if those posts around camel don’t at least raise an eyebrow.

[Andresvmb]

^flip Scum*

[Andresvmb]

I don’t know I mean that’s what I’m seeing. Do I feel extremely confident about it? No. Would I vote it here? Absolutely.

[Prism]

VOTE: Andres
1 2 3

[jjh927]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

[Andresvmb]

Did you read gob's scumgame by chance, jjh?

I think there are a few takeaways from it. I recommend Ctrl+F searching Animated Wiz and Merlyn, his partners.

First, gob tends to be very noncommittal when townleaning a partner. Second, looking at the partner ISOs and comparing it to gob's, he continuously failed to respond to the partner's questions and to interact with them at all. I think this is a stark contrast to this game, where he repeatedly returned to dialoguing with camel.

I’m not seeing this btw. I don’t see a constant return to dialogue with camel. There’s some exchanges, yes. Do I think there’s like a lot of back and forth between them? No. I don’t think I missed it either, but I haven’t placed those interactions in context once again. @Ydrasse, maybe this is something you want to comment on.

I do think you could objectively argue they’ve been awkward as to how they’re placing camel though. I don’t think there’s a super confident TR that sticks, or a super confident SR that’s consistent. There’s a TR D1 that doesn’t seem to follow from a normal Towny process in my eyes, and then some shade with no real commitment.

As in, I think this summary is wrong, but I’m coming a bit from memory as to the context of some of the interactions (remember, I just read an ISO).

[T3]

Did Andres even read Prism's towncase for gob

[T3]

I don't know. The fact that anyone isn't seeing gob's posts as transparenly town is a little baffling

[T3]

I don't know. The fact that anyone isn't seeing gob's posts as transparently town is a little baffling

[Andresvmb]

Alright T3 what do you want me to vote?