Mini Normal 2317 - Postgame

[Gamma Emerald]

Mine

[OutWorldER]

i put Bingle to E-1 for the pure purpose of getting the wagon down.

I clearly said I would protect him, and it immediately brought his wagon heat down.

You had no fear of someone quick-hammering?

[Flavor Leaf]

Ya wanna go and look how quickly i changed it

Im a beast

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s one of my signature moves

[Bingle]

Fwiw it wasn’t supposed to be in said spoiler. The issue with that is definitely not “being self conscious”.

I just forgot that I’d had it quote+’d in another tab.

Now do you want to engage with kl being lhf and you wanting to vote there and not be accountable for said vote?

[OutWorldER]

UNVOTE:

Spicy take incoming but I feel of the like...6 or 7 people who have been primarily posting so far I don't think scum is in any of them. Gamma is probably who I'd pick for most likely scum here at the moment but while her answers are evasive and frustrating I don't feel like it's in a scummy way? Feels more like townie playing close to the chest, that's the vibe I get. Flavor's explanation on 150 is satisfying, and I don't think I'd get anything valuable by continuing to poke at it.

Think I'll actually throw down a
VOTE: Organized Khaos because 90 and 147 ping me.

[KeyLaga]

I am very happy with the improved game state, a number of my reads have strengthened because of several excellent exchanges.
I just want to get some things off my chest, off the top of my head.

RE Flavor and his supposed "cooling of the wagon" and ability to "protect Bingle" even though he was at E-1, that is 100% arrogant BS -- however, don't get me wrong, that is no insult to Flavor because if anything is his "signature move" its that (entertaining to boot XD). However, to be clear, the only thing that actually protected Bingle and cooled his wagon was my Unvote; as a side note, Element's wagon lust was also a threat and the only thing protecting against that were my posts about hammering & claiming. Flavor will always read surface scummy and he even admits it in 159 and that is always a problem because as you know he is a very dangerous scum; my take is the longer the game goes with him as scum, the worse it gets for town. My point is that I feel sorting him early is important for town because again he has a "too scummy to be scum" playstyle which is a subtle form of scum coasting. My read on him at this point is scum-Flavor because he is not participating in this game, just wagoning without any explanations. Just thought I would get that out there.

RE Elements and his fakeclaiming Informed(!?), as much as I would like to, I can't hold an outright scum view of this unless someone can provide scum meta where he does such overtly too scummy to be scum things -- clearly that sort of fakeclaiming is the sort that rolefishes town (which actually happened with Kitty) and will be obviously caught; I mean what scum claims Cop D1, thinking its a good idea? -- this is in essence what Elements did. I actually deplore this kind of play but in the hands of an expert player, who am I to question it, the consequences fall upon themselves alone.

RE Bingle now that it is revealed that Elements was fakeclaiming, my case on him rolefishing the IC is just as valid as when I voted him. I perceive his words regarding myself as a pocket attempt. I think the likelihood of a scum gated Strongman as VERY high and I think he fished out Element's claim to verify if the Strongman would be required for Celeb's kill, while pretending his only concern was just how Elements would flip (whether the Informed would show) -- notice that if Elements confirms this he Mod confirms his stated role and scum knows they will need to use the Strongman for the IC kill.

RE Gamma: I have to give her credit for at least taking stances and voting them but her logic as a whole I have disagreed with as Outworlder & Bingle have also pointed out. The one case I agree with is on myself. I have explained that I feared Elements was rolefishing the IC and backed down once I had time to think more about it but the actual case she brought is valid and is probably the strongest case I have seen any player make so far this game. I can't really say that she is scum here and at best I have to say weak town and the truth of how I feel is probably somewhere in between.

RE Khaos I agree with Out's take on 90 & 147 which is why I continued to prod this slot. This is the second best case I have seen this game but I will choose to watch from the sidelines because though unpopular, I must vote Bingle for rolefishing the IC.

VOTE: Bingle

I may have missed some things I wanted to say, so I will be re-reading to catch anything I forgot.

[KeyLaga]

*they will NOT need to use the Strongman

[KeyLaga]

Please don't Modkill me! Elements is ALWAYS She!

[KeyLaga]

Ok I feel like maybe people don't understand my case against Beagle. I will start from the top.

The scum see an IC and the first thing they want to do is kill it because it is Mod confirmed town; i.e. the more the town knows the alignment of other town players, the closer they are to identifying scum. Because the scum want and need to kill the IC, it is possible to identify them if they should reveal this desire in the game thread.

Suddenly a player claims that there are no protective roles in the town! So how do the scum see this? Well this is slightly complicated but an IC that is unkillable is practically a game breaking role for town and so the Mod, in order to balance the game, has to factor in a way to allow the scum to kill the IC. How? A Strongman which can bypass the protection of a town Doc.

So, back to our story, the scum see they have a Strongman but now there is a chance that it won't be needed for the IC kill and this will allow the Strongman to use ALL their shots (the Strongman must be limited [i.e. x number of shots, I guess 2] also for game balance) against suspected power roles! So, this is a HUGE incentive for scum now.

So what happens? Bingle comes up and pushes Element's claim that there are no power roles AGAIN, even though I had already sorted it, alerting the IC not to claim anything. So what is his motivation then? Well, it must be the gated Strongman theory -- if the scum can confirm that there is no town protection, the Strongman is free to kill elsewhere, rather than waste a shot on the IC.

Its also scummy HOW Bingle queried elements, literally just trying to play it off that all he was interested in was how Elements would flip,

if his Informed would show

and he made it all casual too. The fact is that he is subtly asking Elements to Mod confirm his stated role which then ALSO confirms that no Strongman is needed for the IC kill.

I hope this makes everything clearer and people don't discount the effective power of hunting scum through the IC because they are HIGHLY motivated to kill them.

PS Not only do I think Bingle is trying to pocket me but at the same time subtly discredit my case by calling it "ridiculous" -- ya it tracks that caught scum would say that too.

[KeyLaga]

OMGOSH! I can't believe I did it again! Elements is She! I gotta do something like remember "beautiful female salamander" or something... >.<

[KeyLaga]

Ok maybe it will help if I talk it out: I see Elements, as beautiful as she is, as excessively aggressive which is very typically a male trait that that perception struck deep into my subconscious and just as they say, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression, well dangit I'm stuck with it. I think I have gone through enough pain on this to bring it to the surface: the NAME Elements and the ICON Salamander are FEMALE.

Gosh that should do it, [gulp].

[Gamma Emerald]

Fwiw it wasn’t supposed to be in said spoiler. The issue with that is definitely not “being self conscious”.

I just forgot that I’d had it quote+’d in another tab.

Now do you want to engage with kl being lhf and you wanting to vote there and not be accountable for said vote?

idk
I feel like engaging with you isn't really worth it? I get a feeling you don't care to genuinely sort me. That doesn't exactly make you scum, but it means I feel like my efforts are better placed elsewhere.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
I think I feel good about Key after that last spurt of posting he made. His thought process seems to be running in a town manner.

[KeyLaga]

Celeb

-- Mod conf town

Elements

-- conditional town based on MASSIVELY too scummy to be scum

Random

-- Natural RVS entry & analysis of the game state, willing to RVS wagon; not a lot of input but I get towny vibes so far, weak town.

Kitty

-- Great RVS entry, defends me & suspects Elements but claims Informed which is a town-oriented role, strong town

Outworlder

-- RVS entrance explosive, sincere querying of existing wagons/players, posits game theory of Bingle-scum, suspects Favor; fearless & strong town

Naer

-- defends myself & Gamma, communicates; not enough to call town but I will say null-town for desire to take stances

Gamma

-- attacks me and Bingle, definitely taking stances and voting but logic on cases not tracking so null-town

Eiralox

-- very little input and no actual game actions, this will be scummy as the Day progresses but can only be NULL for now

Bingle

-- scum for rolefishing the IC

Flavor Leaf

-- Wagoning without cases, not giving reads nor reasoning, unhelpful to town, scum coasting; scum

Organized Khaos

-- posts as lost scum, apparently wagons without reasoning, not much to go on; weak scum

mayhemthrone

is now officially lurking (in my book).

[Alianna]

KeyLaga has received a warning for rule 15.

General reminder to be respectful of other users' stated pronouns and gender identities.

[Alianna]

Flavor Leaf has requested replacement.

[KeyLaga]

Obviously the above list is a massive summary of each player, I am able to flesh out any of these reads, just ask.

[KeyLaga]

@Kitty: You said that the scum knows there is TP, is that also explicitly stated as the Informed part of your role?

[KeyLaga]

@Elements (you beauiful female salamander) Do you have scum-meta on Bingle? I get the feeling that he is experienced & confident scum, being quite relaxed in the alignment?

[Random Nurse]

Hey, could we have an updated VC?

[KeyLaga]

Previous VC:

1.06
Votecount 1.06

Gamma Emerald (3): Naerys, Bingle, Elements
Elements (3): OutWorldER, KeyLaga, KittyTacky
Bingle (2): Random Nurse, Organized Khaos
KeyLaga (2): Flavor Leaf, Gamma Emerald
KittyTacky (1): Celebloki

Not Voting (2): mayhemthrone, Eiralox

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in 9 days, 4 hours, 7 minutes.

[KeyLaga]

The following actions were taken:

Kitty: Unvotes
Celeb: Unvotes, Votes Flavor
Out: Unvotes, Votes Khaos
Key: Votes Bingle
Gamma: Unvotes

Generating new VC...

[KeyLaga]

Gamma Emerald (3): Naerys, Bingle, Elements
Bingle (3): Random Nurse, Organized Khaos, Key
KeyLaga (2): Flavor Leaf
KittyTacky (1):
Flavor Leaf (1): Celeb
Khaos (1): Out
Not Voting (2): mayhemthrone, Eiralox, Kitty, Gamma Emerald

Done and assumed 100% accurate, mechanical method for accuracy applied.

[biancospino]

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