Toriel's Patience (end)

[Freedom]

My bad.

[Freedom]

Reading up now.

[Isis]

Votecount 2.0

() -

he/him

Dannflor

(0) -

he/him

RCEnigma

(0) -

Lazy Shirou

(1) - RCEnigma,

He/him

Bingle

(0) -

Sakura Hana

(1) - Dannflor,

She/her

Freedom

(0) -

he/him, they/them

Keyleth

(0) -

She/her

Ydrasse

(2) - Alisae, Taly,
She

Alisae

(0) -

Taly

(0) -

He/She

implosion

(0) -

he/him

beeboy

(0) -

Not Voting

- (9) Ydrasse, implosion, Keyleth, Freedom, Sakura Hana, Bingle, beeboy, Dunnstral, Lazy Shirou,

(expired on 2023-12-02 03:17:50)

[Isis]

Previous

A schoolgirl walked into the room. She was clad head to toe in pink, even though Toriel had noticed the school had a different uniform. She was holding a handbroom and an eraser, the eraser shoulder height and ready to go and the handbroom carried for later.

She initially surveyed the room and saw that it was already clean.

It frustrated her.

"Why would you, like, clean a room you weren't assigned? The right half of the board is smeared." she asked Dunnstral. Dunnstral was surprised she was even talking to him.

He had not quite figured out that Toriel had decided to clean the room so that he might be more likely to be admitted to the school. He did understand that this girl was a student though, the sort he should probably get along with.

"I'm new".

The girl shook her head. "This is offday for this room. Don't guess at things ok?"

She put her hands on her hips and looked at the board, remembering she had just washed her eraser.

"It probably looks fine enough for tomorrow morning. I guess I'm going home. You shouldn't come to school when you don't have a chore assignment, you'll get bored of them faster." The girl left, without any kind of introductions.

[RCEnigma]

0-dimensional chess is my new term for a post that seems to want to ignore the nuance of WIFOM and call something that "scum would obviously do" scummy, even when it'd definitely be apparent to that person that what they were doing was scummy, so why would they make that post in the first place. Particularly w someone like Shirou with a noted scumgame and lots of experience.

Calling something 0-dimensional chess is not the same thing as making a too scummy to be scum argument, because that phrase is loaded and incorrect sometimes whereas this new one is always accurate

I can consider wifom and Occam’s razor will still say scummy thing is probably scummy.

[RCEnigma]

But yeah it’s like a foothold vote while I get deeper into the game. I think I’ve implied that but explicitly saying it takes away from the vote….so that’s cool now, I guess.

[Taly]

then what's your alternative?

Prob one in [Implo, Bingle, RCE]

maybe one in [Key, Dann, Freedom]

/shrug

eh, I want more than just a PoE of half the playerlist

town core is like implosion, taly, keyleth, ydrasse

alisae feels like town now but not as stake my life on it as the above

shirou feels towny too

i dont agree with any of your core except for me, can you explain?

Alisae, we should talk because your recent posting is making me feel a bit, odd? Like, I know I have a weird way of playing so I can respect unconventional means of town reading or replaying the game yet I don't get where your head is? Maybe that's on me, and I want it to be. Can you talk to me more on your reads because I see you have a good list of Poe where a lot of others have not yet you caught up so late were there like, any really good or bad posts that made you town or wolfbin someone?

Bee is town
Ari slot is town
Bingle is town
Dunnstral I don't care to form a read on but gun to head town
Taly is town
Sakura is town

ok great that leaves me w/

Dannflor
Lazy Shirou
Merlyn/Freedom
Keyleth
Mandate/Ydrasse
implosion

i kind of don't want to fight Dann anymore after whatever that was
{Ydra Freedom} probably has a wolf in it I think it's Ydra. It can have 2 wolves in it.
Implosion I've just never townread.
Shirou I want to townread but I probably shouldn't
and then there's you
you exist and ig I want to TR you but like I probably shouldn't

Either way I'm pretty much very happy with just flipping the entire Meuh wagon

this is similar to my reads, but id knock

Bingle/Sakura/RCE

a peg lower than

Beeboy/Dunnstral/Aliase

Beeboy/Dunnstrals/Aliase

Bingle/Sakura/RCE

Shirou/Dannflor/Keyleth

Freedom/implosion/Ydrasse

[Taly]

Maybe this is a skill issue but Meuh's flip did not help me as much as I thought it would.

I don't like this type of post because it feels disingenuous.

[Taly]

i do not like the ydrasse wagon

it feels like an overreaction to a single town flip

i do not mind reevaluating consensus town reads and i think that is good and cool but i can't help but feel ydrasse is only getting heat because she is an easier target than mandate

like i do not think anyone has actually made a coherent scum point against the slot

im not too big a fan of this defense largely because it seems to dissuade the only current wagon after it was shown that town's consensus reads have flaws in them

[Taly]

i dont understand the emphasis on reading

dunn

either. it just feels like an excuse to pivot toward fight or doubt an objectively town-centric slot, nothing about

dunn

is actionable from a town POV rn

[Taly]

Though I think implo said something about spare being good based off EV.
And I think we can take his word with it.
P-edit: @Ydra

Alas, alas.

I also am inclined to go after the empty slot next.

Because there's going to be no contributions from it?
I might have to read Ari's iso first but I guess we could go for it if Ari was scummy.

Otherwise, it might be good going for what Shirou suggested with reading slots defensive of Meuh.

Hi RCE!

Your immediate predecessor RN was virtually non-existent so it'd be good if you could do something.

Hey! I’ve read 5ish pages, I have….varying confidence in reads but one was that meuh was town, so that’s nice I guess.

At the very least pushing to hammer in the middle of finding a replacement is !SKETCHY! So that’s also nice, I guess.

Idk what kind of bit I’m doing but I’ll probably keep it going till I get bored, I guess.

What are your current thoughts on

Spare

/

Fight

?

Alas, alas.

I also am inclined to go after the empty slot next.

Because there's going to be no contributions from it?
I might have to read Ari's iso first but I guess we could go for it if Ari was scummy.

Nah, I never really found Ari as town and have mentioned a couple times that the slot is in my PoE.

It was more so for me to remind myself to read Ari's ISO.

Actually, I realise you were answering my question.

*just realised

My bad.

Reading up now.

i scumread this because it is a lot of presence but there is nothing substantial coming from it

[Taly]

I don't really know what to think of you finding my takes "theoretical", everything is theoretical idk anyone's alignment

i dont feel like your posts come to any concrete conclusion unless youd like to prove me wrong

[RCEnigma]

You’ve sold me VOTE: Freedom

[Taly]

i dont think many people are being intellectually honest about solving right now

[Taly]

how do you feel about

freedom

flip

alisae

?

[Alisae]

VOTE: freedom

[Taly]

VOTE: Freedom

[RCEnigma]

There is enough dead end probing just in the few posts you quoted that I think is scum indicative. Or at least indicative of surface solving. I don’t think there would be a drastic flip to that if I deep dive in freedoms iso but…

Also have issues with implosion recent posting but I can bin it since I see at least a possible world it comes from town.

[Taly]

shouldve listened to

beeboy

as usual

[Taly]

my instinct is for D2 to be like a 1/3rd of the size/time D1 is, is better for town

[RCEnigma]

Yeah idk Alisae I’m on page 15 right now and every mandate post is like….man that’s a really town process. I just don’t see scum even considering “oh I have to skirt around this overarching concept because even mentioning it could potentially invalidate catching scum in a strategy with a potentially large flaw”

The potentially parts are particularly notable to me since I often find myself setting slots up with a scum expectation and form a better read on whether they meet or move away from that expectation but that’s on a grander scale.

[RCEnigma]

Ok so that’s not all the way true, I’ll say there are a handful of players that I can see:

A.) having the thought to do something like that as scum

And

2.) Actually putting it into practice to better the gamestate for themselves

None of those players are in this game as far as I know.

[Taly]

shirou

, join us and you won't be next

<3

[RCEnigma]

It definitely helps that this is the kind of setup where I fully expect scum to be going full on buddying each other trying to make a pseudo townbloc

Why would you expect scum necessarily to go "full on buddying each other"?

Fight route looks similar to mountainous and sparing a mafia in Mercy route through a "pseudo townblock" would cause suspicious to be cast on the people in it afterwards

I think scum would be more likely to try to buddy other players in this game but I don't understand why they would willingly associate themselves and risk diminishing their individual odds of being spared after one of them is

I think, personally this just goes to show that when you have something like this, there's a lot of unexplored ways on how a wolf could or should play it. Getting locked into the mindset of how they would is sort of exactly what I think they'd want us to do?

That's why I personally wanted to go Mercy because it's like, a lot easier to just let people show their thoughts and everything they feel in a good light vs who is trying to work the thread to their advantage.

A keyleth post I like. Shows some consistency and doesn’t come off as a cop out to not scumhunt.

[RCEnigma]

I actually sort of feel the opposite, I think it it gets into a big game of people fighting to be the most town it becomes a lot harder to solve, but I don't think it's as important whether we spare or kill as not sparing scum!Dunnstral and not killing town!Dunnstral.

Really? In my experience of video mafia and other stuff it at least felt a lot harder for wolves to fake a townread on their teammate vs making a wolfcase on inconsistencies of weaknesses villagers do. Maybe I'm incorrect in my theory and have a bit of choo choo brain because of my urge to send over all of Dann/You/Taly

Video mafia makes sense. My first impression of forum mafia was that it would translate pretty smoothly and it did not…