Open 889 | Secrets of the Anuket Topaz | fin.

[T3]

I was away, but it doesn't seem like much has changed

[T3]

if t3 is town i cannot understand why he called andres town and then hammered even under wanting the day to end. what a horrible play. i wanted the day to end but i wasn’t going to vote because of that

Posts like this make me heavily lean towards scum ydra

i need you to explain to me why you decided to do that

Because I wanted to day to end???

[T3]

I think you're perfectly capable of looking at this from my point of view as town and I think you not doing so is scummy

[T3]

Just based on today's posts I think it's T3.

I've made, like, 3 posts today

[T3]

I am slowly progressing through rereading the game

[T3]

im masons with firebringer and shirou

have u ever played w them before?

i think i played with them in open 889 when we got a collective scum victory together

Can i have a real answer to this btw

no

Okay so what if it’s not ydrasse

[T3]

I don't really find that early interaction very indicative. Firebringer had the same or better interactions with camel.

Maybe? Firebringer and camel were interacting very nicely at that point and ydrasse interjecting with a serious and awkward question is pretty towny

[T3]

I mean it’s definitely a bit of an awkward interaction for scumpartners to have

[T3]

I was hoping that other players would take more initiative in my absence, but I'm very used to it.

I read through the first 35 pages again

[T3]

hello
i am here

i dont think snivy should be town for efforts but idk. i have wavered on this in my head, where i have been posting instead of this thread.
i feel some kind of way about someone arriving and inserting themselves into the game in a way that is like: "im scum with these people"
and then when asked if he's played w those people before there's deflection

i asked if he had because i think if he just said no i would have given a townread because a wolf would imo be more self conscious in saying stuff like that with strangers
but instead i dont get why theres just another joke its v weird to me
idk if he is wolf trying to integrate with vibes or town, who naturally just has vibes

I read through another ydra scumgame and again, I'm pretty sure that she's town

[T3]

gob firebringer jjh927
save the dragons andresvmb
prism shirou t3
alisae snivy
titus imaginality

if this is wrong it's probably like dragons or alisae somewhere in the middle tiers?

Same here

[T3]

I'd rather reframe it to ask does anyone else have interactions with flipped scum that are worse than Ydrasse's to you?

Haven't looked

[T3]

viewtopic.php?t=90137 in this game (ydra's most recent scumgame that is a normal game with normal mechanics that went in a normal way ie. not swinger's hall) she treats her partners (pooky and skitter) completely differently than she treats Fire and camel this game

For all intents and purposes her partners just don't exist. She gives an early hedge-y read on Pooky but she revises that read a few posts later to say that actually Pooky is town. While this might look similar to how she treated camel in this game, in this game she still gave herself room to push and continue suspecting camel which is not what she did with Pooky - she ignored Pooky for the rest of the game except when directly addressed. This starkly contrasted with her treatment of other slots in similar positions like Dannflor. As for skitter, ydra ignored her the entire game until she faked a PR result on her. When I ctrl-F'ed "skitter" in her ISO I got 11 results, 9 of which were from quotes. Skitter and Pooky are both in the nulltown portion of her readlist for virtually the entire game.

Of course, this starkly contrasts with how ydra treats camel:

Spoiler:

im masons with firebringer and shirou

have u ever played w them before?

i think i played with them in open 889 when we got a collective scum victory together

Can i have a real answer to this btw

i don’t think imaginality is solving which is why i’m voting them but i don’t think that’s the post you want to use to prove someone’s solving

fine

then ill say titus is voicing her thoughts more publicly than imaginality

okay, what do you like abt those thoughts?

i don’t think imaginality is solving which is why i’m voting them but i don’t think that’s the post you want to use to prove someone’s solving

fine

then ill say titus is voicing her thoughts more publicly than imaginality

okay, what do you like abt those thoughts?

i don't think scum!titus would be that public about it

stop damn posting

why

why

more flexibility

okay
fundamentally i disagree with you because i think that while it is nice as a wolf to be able to do as you want sometimes it’s not optional to do what you want in order to live
my interpretation of her play in a nutshell is that she took a slot that was suspected partially due to inactivity. she kicks it up immediately with her opening and doubles down on certain reads which she’s mostly kept throughout the entire game
i’m going to argue to you that she is wolf because she is inflexible; i think that if she was town, i think that she would have come to more conclusions post flip. she’d be more interested in actual content than, fmpov, fighting and fearmongering and trying to broker deals. i feel like the fights she’s getting in now with shirou are like… not actually things rooted to content in the game in a way that matters. they’re a way to push a wagon through under some very flimsy prospects.

i’d appreciate it if you’d reread even part of her iso considering this because it’s very hard for me to see what she’s done in this game as towny

ydra also never talks about Firebringer this game but there was never much to talk about wrt to him, and in the end, instead of hedging on him, she's his top townread for most of the game. This is the exact same as how she treats jjh. She never talks about him, never provides reads on him, and eventually has jjh as her 2nd-best townread.

I guess obviously pooky and skitter are obviously much better at scum than camel and probably Firebringer, and the way that ydra engaged with camel could have been intended to get him into the game and not be constant limbait, but again, I really do not think that scum!ydra would go ahead and half-bus camel while also trying to engage with him and find his alignment. Nor do I think that scum!ydra would go ahead and have scum!Firebringer as her top townread with no explanation.

[T3]

I think her likelihood of her being scum in a vacuum is probably a bit less than rand.

[T3]

Also in that scum game ydra was much lower content than she is in this game

[T3]

I'd prefer to do more than just shoot you down.

Again I'm not going to pretend that I have amazing reads and that my reads are entirely logical, they're usually not, and 40% of the time I do deserve to get completely shot down.

[T3]

viewtopic.php?t=90137 in this game (ydra's most recent scumgame that is a normal game with normal mechanics that went in a normal way ie. not swinger's hall) she treats her partners (pooky and skitter) completely differently than she treats Fire and camel this game

For all intents and purposes her partners just don't exist. She gives an early hedge-y read on Pooky but she revises that read a few posts later to say that actually Pooky is town. While this might look similar to how she treated camel in this game, in this game she still gave herself room to push and continue suspecting camel which is not what she did with Pooky - she ignored Pooky for the rest of the game except when directly addressed. This starkly contrasted with her treatment of other slots in similar positions like Dannflor. As for skitter, ydra ignored her the entire game until she faked a PR result on her. When I ctrl-F'ed "skitter" in her ISO I got 11 results, 9 of which were from quotes. Skitter and Pooky are both in the nulltown portion of her readlist for virtually the entire game.

Of course, this starkly contrasts with how ydra treats camel:

Spoiler:

im masons with firebringer and shirou

have u ever played w them before?

i think i played with them in open 889 when we got a collective scum victory together

Can i have a real answer to this btw

i don’t think imaginality is solving which is why i’m voting them but i don’t think that’s the post you want to use to prove someone’s solving

fine

then ill say titus is voicing her thoughts more publicly than imaginality

okay, what do you like abt those thoughts?

i don’t think imaginality is solving which is why i’m voting them but i don’t think that’s the post you want to use to prove someone’s solving

fine

then ill say titus is voicing her thoughts more publicly than imaginality

okay, what do you like abt those thoughts?

i don't think scum!titus would be that public about it

stop damn posting

why

why

more flexibility

okay
fundamentally i disagree with you because i think that while it is nice as a wolf to be able to do as you want sometimes it’s not optional to do what you want in order to live
my interpretation of her play in a nutshell is that she took a slot that was suspected partially due to inactivity. she kicks it up immediately with her opening and doubles down on certain reads which she’s mostly kept throughout the entire game
i’m going to argue to you that she is wolf because she is inflexible; i think that if she was town, i think that she would have come to more conclusions post flip. she’d be more interested in actual content than, fmpov, fighting and fearmongering and trying to broker deals. i feel like the fights she’s getting in now with shirou are like… not actually things rooted to content in the game in a way that matters. they’re a way to push a wagon through under some very flimsy prospects.

i’d appreciate it if you’d reread even part of her iso considering this because it’s very hard for me to see what she’s done in this game as towny

ydra also never talks about Firebringer this game but there was never much to talk about wrt to him, and in the end, instead of hedging on him, she's his top townread for most of the game. This is the exact same as how she treats jjh. She never talks about him, never provides reads on him, and eventually has jjh as her 2nd-best townread.

I guess obviously pooky and skitter are obviously much better at scum than camel and probably Firebringer, and the way that ydra engaged with camel could have been intended to get him into the game and not be constant limbait, but again, I really do not think that scum!ydra would go ahead and half-bus camel while also trying to engage with him and find his alignment. Nor do I think that scum!ydra would go ahead and have scum!Firebringer as her top townread with no explanation.

I don't know if I appropriately evaluated the context of the game in which Pooky and and skitter were in though, like how other players were treating them in the moments that ydra gave nullreads on them.

[T3]

Sorry to hear about that. Take all the time away from mafia you need!

[T3]

T3, if it's not Ydra, then who is it?

My choice after ydra would be Prism, but I'd need to read more.

[T3]

Man, I should have pushed Firebringer more. In retrospect he wasn't putting in any effort whatsoever compared to Booneytoonz. Whatever.

[T3]

T3, if it's not Ydra, then who is it?

My choice after ydra would be Prism, but I'd need to read more.

It's not prism, so who is it

It's Prism

[T3]

T3, if it's not Ydra, then who is it?

My choice after ydra would be Prism, but I'd need to read more.

It's not prism, so who is it

It's Prism

It's probably not Prism. idk

[T3]

Maybe it is. Are you really so uninterested in finding out?

I am interested in finding out and that is why I have read to page 42

[T3]

It's more that you 'd have to put in a lot more effort to consciously do things that a town play would do unconsciously in a way that meshes with the gamestate

I don't know. I'm a lot better at engaging with the gamestate when I'm scum (see the scumgame I linked earlier), when I'm town I just go off and do my own thing to solve which is part of the reason why I'm scumread frequently as town. I think Prism has definitely been providing a lot of passive commentary but I don't think Prism has been all that in-tune with the gamestate.

[T3]

The extended back and forth with camel starting at post 1935 seems incredibly genuine, like Ydrasse is annoyed that camel is taking Titus off the table. I think this is very town-indicative.

I though so too

[T3]

@T3)

I did an imaginality triple ISO, I didn't gain much from it.

[T3]

^this was earlier today btw

[T3]

Yeah, I mean, we can agree to disagree to agree. Your analysis of ydra made sense, I'm a bit tired right now but I don't see anything wrong with it.

[T3]

scum T3 probably doesn't want to townread Ydrasse today.

Yeah, probably not. Maybe I'd wait to see what Prism does too.

[T3]

What do people generally think of jjh? I'm usually at a "hard no" but I definitely want to interrogate the question, especially since he's a player that was safer from elimination than Fire (I was probably safest followed by him/gob?)

Town, probably. There's the obvious "why did he try so hard yesterday" a

maybe

that could be explained by him not wanting to be pushed by you?

[T3]

VOTE: STD

Whatever.

[T3]

VOTE: jjh

[T3]

YDRA HAMMER

YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO

[T3]

oh lmao

[T3]

Also that would be incorrect

T3, how exactly did you come to your current conclusion

I have stronger reasons to townread everyone else

[T3]

Except for Prism of course.

[T3]

But I guess due to what just happened it’s basically between you/imaginality in my mind, and imaginality’s cause has more or less sealed the deal.

[T3]

Also it literally can't be Prism now if you were paying any attention

Yes, I then realized that and said "But I guess due to what's just happened it's between you and imag"

[T3]

Your reads have kinda felt like "whatever ends the game quickest" very recently, and while that's something you have in common with Imag, you specifically aren't even going through the motions of putting any thought into actually getting the elimination right

The first point is probably true. But I don't think that I haven't been putting any thought into it, I have reread most of the game, plus I did my whole scumcase thing on Ydra (which was wrong fwiw)

[T3]

Except for Prism of course.

I've been meaning to ask about this. Where does your thinking come from? IIRC you only saw about 2 or 3 real-life days of me playing scum in a Normal, and it was pretty unimpressive and over 2 years ago.

I thought your play in the Mini Normal was good and I think I also spectated a scumgame of yours a while ago.

[T3]

He was very involved in the conversation around getting the hammer and then said nothing in the following 2 minutes

I think I left to do my homework? I don't quite remember.

[T3]

I dunno how I was blind to this until now but Shirou kill over Prism makes most sense for scum!T3

Maybe? Shirou had me as a lean town by the end of yesterday and I know that no matter what happens that Prism will reconsider on his reads which doesn't leave me safe in any world. I'd still probably kill Shirou if I was scum but there is a world where scum!me tries to solve with town!Shirou today.

[T3]

Nvm I forgot that 'Lazy Shirou' was in the game.

Shirou had me as a lean town by the end of yesterday

[T3]

Rereading T3 I'd give the slot a 3 or 4. Oh boy. This'll be fun.

Oh, joy.

[T3]

Very bad post

How

I don't get this one. You instantly went from two scumreads to two others.

Your quotes of the progression I show between 4032 and 4071 misses this post:

tbh reading Shirou's ISO I did see some towny stuff though.

[T3]

You instantly went from two scumreads to two others.

Also, iirc in 4032 I arrived at Shirou/imaginality scum by joint-ISO'ing imaginality and Shirou - admittedly I was a bit tunneled on Shirou and I guess I almost 'wanted' him to be scum.

[T3]

If T3 was scum here, then camel and Fire would be setting T3 up to leave first and to get towncred

FWIW I've been playing decently as scum recently, save for that Micro Normal in May that I coasted through.

In Frog Images I was universally townread but lost due to completely incorrect PR reads and deadweight teammates.

In DEFCON I was widely townread, albeit because my reads were incredibly absurd and I struggled to make real content and people saw that as towny. I could have endgamed 25% of the time had my scumpartner not dayvigged me for the lulz.

In Booneytoonz I was universally townread, controlled the entire game from start to finish, led a mislim every day, and reacted to pressure very well.

Booneytoonz was going on at the same time as this game, and I was on the high of playing a very good scumgame and effortlessly making content. I know that I would trust myself to endgame far more than I would trust camel.

[T3]

What questions would you like me to answer

[T3]

I still want T3 to walk me through his vote on Dragons and switch onto jjh.

Dunno. I was being lazy and was lost so I voted Dragons not really out of spite, more out of boredom and antsyness I guess.

[T3]

...And the switch from Dragons to jjh?

I thought jjh was more likely to be scum than Dragons.

[T3]

But essentially, it'd be because Firebringer and T3 were both on the very vocal Shirou's shit list, who also notably said Imag was town right at the end
Imag may have been in less danger than Fire

Killing shirou over you makes less sense for scum!imag as a result though

jjh why did you initially green me out on your table?

[T3]

But essentially, it'd be because Firebringer and T3 were both on the very vocal Shirou's shit list, who also notably said Imag was town right at the end
Imag may have been in less danger than Fire

Killing shirou over you makes less sense for scum!imag as a result though

jjh why did you initially green me out on your table?

Green me out with Firebringer in particular.

[T3]

But essentially, it'd be because Firebringer and T3 were both on the very vocal Shirou's shit list, who also notably said Imag was town right at the end
Imag may have been in less danger than Fire

Killing shirou over you makes less sense for scum!imag as a result though

jjh why did you initially green me out on your table?

Green me out with Firebringer in particular.

Do you really need to ask that question, man who has already brought attention to his interactions with Firebringer in day 3

Why are said interaction with Firebringer currently invalid in your eyes?

[T3]

I hate that I respect you and your potential enough to think this is plausibly intentional.

I have like 25% of the motivation to win when I'm town compared to when I'm scum. I get disappointed when I see a town PM.

[T3]

Hi

[T3]

Was that hammer

[T3]

oh cool

[T3]

[T3]

I have such high hopes for T3, and I'd be so proud of him if this is his scumgame.

I wish

[T3]

Lol. Honestly, I just need to focus on the game more. I spend random 5 minutes spurts looking at the game before something else catches my attention and throughout the day it adds up to an hour but I never think about the game outside of those 5 minutes spurts, I never actually sit down for an hour and just look at the game.

[T3]

Are we still allowed to talk even though it is hammer?

Yes

[T3]

'in Minecraft' of course

[T3]

gob was my top townread so I'm pretty shocked. Oh well.

[T3]

camel was pretty obvious but he could easily have played like that as town too. For Fire I thought "hmmm, which players am I ignoring that are in my null pile" and then I saw a cool quote from RadiantCowbells that said "statistically, average players' null reads are more likely to be scum than their town or scum reads" so I voted Firebringer

[T3]

keyword searches

Wait, keyword searches to find scum??

I only ever use them when I'm althunting, I've found like 3 alts this way lol

[T3]

Well if its a confirmed win then yea, I'm the mafia.

christ. WP!

[T3]

Scooby Doo and the Cyber Chase

is also deeply philosophically enriching. The writers are shockingly well-versed in the philosophy of identity and the work of Derek Parfit: the opening premise of the movie is the ability to perfectly copy, store, and potentially destroy "original" physical objects, including real persons, in order to construct a subatomically identical copy elsewhere temporally or spatially. This is clearly derived from Parfit's Teletransportation paradox, and the story basically writes itself from there.

The ultimate endgoal of the movie is obviously not to provide a short fun audiovisual story, but to get children to think critically and challenge conventional conceptions of personal identity and the nature of the self. Scooby Doo is the best possible representation for the power of television and cartoons to serve as a global equalizer by mass-distributing high-quality accessible educational content.

A moment of silence for the visionaries over at Hanna-Barbera. May we all pick up their unfinished work and continue their legacy.

Philosophy major or just ChatGPT?

[T3]

Normally I just say I majored in Natural Light

In that case I hope I can get an AP credit for my Budweiser degree!

[T3]

I shit you not, I received a Collegeboard promotional email from them 2 weeks ago.