Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Xylthixlm]

"How does it feel to replace Gimbo?"

[Claus]

Well, I must say that I was "WTF'?"ing myself at each of Puta's comments.

Until someone pointed out that she was Gimbo. Then it all made sense.

[Der Hammer]

I have formed the opinion that lynching me actually is a good option for the town. Here is my reason. I am a Miller.

Regardless of whether I suddenly got very active in this game someone would still suspect me for my start, which is bound to lead to confusion. Like I said, I am a Miller, so clearly sooner or later I am going to be incorrectly lynched and I don't want a scenario where a cop comes out to get me lynched on the basis of a false investigation......it is therefore that I dishonourably disarge myself and now endorse a Der Hammer lynch.

Vote:Der Hammer

[Der Hammer]

*ahem

Unvote:Tubby, Vote:Der Hammer

[Seraphim]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

[Hoopla]

You're still claiming to be a town aligned player. Optimal miller play would be trying to draw an NK to protect town powerroles for another night - or conversely claiming at the start of the day so we can deal with it then.

If you're really pro-town you're doing a rubbish job and are just handicapping us.

[Yosarian2]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

Clarify what you mean here. Do you think he's scum?

[Xylthixlm]

Vote: Der Hammer

[Seraphim]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

Clarify what you mean here. Do you think he's scum?

from those one/two posts? Hell yes.

[Natirasha]

unvote, vote: Der Hammer

. Not exactly sold on the lynch, but I need to get to day two before I can start to not lurk.

[Claus]

- Hoopla, what is the point of your post?
- Seraphim looks bad by conflating "this is bad play" and "thinks he is scum"

- Derhammer, if you are town, voting yourself without contributing anything is TERRIBLE to the town. Even if you think you are going to get lynched (and as a miller, you are going to get lynched/vigged sooner than later) the best thing you could do is at least try to give us the impressions you have of the other players.

So if you think you can still be active, even if confusion sprouts from that, I'd say go for it. If you really have a death with, at least post your opinions of some players, so we have something to work on when your card is flipped.

=======

Read up my predecessor's play, and then up to page 3. If I have more time, I'll read more today. Else, expect more tomorrow (sorry, lots of work until wed means turtle pace):

Spat between Hopla and GC - two quick, concurring bandwagons, yay. GC seems to make a bit too big of an ado about Hopla's vote(13,19). I would vote GC here too. Seraphin looks bad for being touchy and the unvote (34,36). BM pushes GC and Seraph. Sobeahero and Ecto defend GC/accuse BM. OGML looks ok.

Yos throws some mud at Seraph and BM, but remains passive while talking a lot. (48,49,63)

=======

Player impressions (subject to change as I keep reading the thread).

unvote. Vote: Seraph

- for the recent posts regarding der hammer, and her behavior on the first 3 pages.

Fos: Yos

- For behavior in the first 3 pages.

[Claus]

EBWOP: death with -> death wish

[Yosarian2]

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

Clarify what you mean here. Do you think he's scum?

from those one/two posts? Hell yes.

Ok. Could you explain why you think a scum would be especally likely to claim miller, self vote, and then ask the town to lynch him?

[Hoopla]

- Hoopla, what is the point of your post?

It's me being hissy, because it's essentially a give-up post - he doesn't want to play, and the town will be punished for it by wasting a lynch when he is probably town.

[Xylthixlm]

The miller claim was bad. Lynch all claimed millers still applies.

[OhGodMyLife]

Why is there so much idiocy in this game?

[vollkan]

I have formed the opinion that lynching me actually is a good option for the town. Here is my reason. I am a Miller.

Regardless of whether I suddenly got very active in this game someone would still suspect me for my start, which is bound to lead to confusion. Like I said, I am a Miller, so clearly sooner or later I am going to be incorrectly lynched and I don't want a scenario where a cop comes out to get me lynched on the basis of a false investigation......it is therefore that I dishonourably disarge myself and now endorse a Der Hammer lynch.

Vote:Der Hammer

....
This is an incredibly stupid play to make. People would suspect you for your atrocious early play, but that's no excuse for doing something like this. There were still a good three weeks until deadline.

Sounds good enough for me.

Vote: Der Hammer

(oh yeah, I'm back, lol. I'm catching up now but as I read the post above me, claiming miller and voting for oneself is bad play)

Clarify what you mean here. Do you think he's scum?

from those one/two posts? Hell yes.

Ok. Could you explain why you think a scum would be especally likely to claim miller, self vote, and then ask the town to lynch him?

QFFT

It's a bad play, no doubt about it. But nobody to join the DH wagon has explained why lynching him is a good idea.

The miller claim was bad. Lynch all claimed millers still applies.

I haven't heard of "Lynch all claimed millers" before. Lest I get the impression that it is just an empty slogan, would you mind explaining to me the rationale for such a policy?

Why is there so much idiocy in this game?

I don't know, but it's frustrating me to all hell

[Xylthixlm]

The miller claim was bad. Lynch all claimed millers still applies.

I haven't heard of "Lynch all claimed millers" before. Lest I get the impression that it is just an empty slogan, would you mind explaining to me the rationale for such a policy?

Maybe I'm imagining it (I'm on the 4th day of a bad cold, and not thinking clearly). I think it was something about scum using miller claims to avoid cop investigations.

[vollkan]

The miller claim was bad. Lynch all claimed millers still applies.

I haven't heard of "Lynch all claimed millers" before. Lest I get the impression that it is just an empty slogan, would you mind explaining to me the rationale for such a policy?

Maybe I'm imagining it (I'm on the 4th day of a bad cold, and not thinking clearly). I think it was something about scum using miller claims to avoid cop investigations.

Right. I imagined something like that.

I don't think it should be an auto-lynch, but should be a factor supporting lynch.

Given that, my solution would be as follows:
We have 3 weeks until deadline; that's a long time (I usually have 3 week deadlines for whole days). We should keep DH alive, but insist that, as of his next post, he selects one of the following options:
a)

Read up in full with a decent summary of his views on each player

; or
b)

Leave the game and replace his avatar with a plain white square containing, in large black letters "I am a Known Flaker"

If he chooses a), the summary has to be completed within 72 hours unless he has a reasonable excuse.
If he chooses b), auf wiedersehen

[Xylthixlm]

I have trouble imagining an argument for why a miller claim should be less incriminating than a guilty result from a cop.

[vollkan]

Well, scum has very little motivation to claim miller unless they've been investigated. Even if they don't get auto-lynched, they are bound to come under a lot of pressure throughout the game/be vigged. It just doesn't add anything to the scum's position. (Btw, I am NOT saying it is a town-tell)

(FTR: I have been a miller myself once, in Mini 562. I had a look back and I used the exact same justification there as DH is using now - that it can save a cop outing himself. I claimed in my second post, though, because my own view is that millers should claim asap)

[Xylthixlm]

Something like this.

If there was a guilty cop result on someone, you would lynch them even if they claim miller.

If someone claims miller early, then you know that any cop inspect on them

will

be guilty. That means that there is no difference in information about the miller's alignment whether or not the cop uses an inspection. (The cop knows, too, and will never actually inspect the miller). So a claimed miller is logically equivalent to an inspected miller.

Since you would lynch an inspected miller, and a claimed miller is logically equivalent to an inspected miller, you should lynch a claimed miller.

[vollkan]

Something like this.

If there was a guilty cop result on someone, you would lynch them even if they claim miller.

If someone claims miller early, then you know that any cop inspect on them

will

be guilty. That means that there is no difference in information about the miller's alignment whether or not the cop uses an inspection. (The cop knows, too, and will never actually inspect the miller). So a claimed miller is logically equivalent to an inspected miller.

Since you would lynch an inspected miller, and a claimed miller is logically equivalent to an inspected miller, you should lynch a claimed miller.

Yes, but I think the difference is that scum has little motivation to claim miller. The fact that they claim before being investigated is enough to spare them from auto-lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

There's an asymmetry there between claim-before-investigation and claim-after-investigation which shoots a hole in the argument. I'm too tired and sick to work out how bad it is.

[Claus]

Xyl, Volkann, I don't see the point of this discussion on policy lynching of millers. Please focus your brains in more productive causes.

My position on DH is - I want him to at least tell us who he thinks is scum and town before we decide anything. Lynching him before the deadline seems ok, but I want to first finish my read and see if there is a better alternative.

On that line of thought, if we took the flakers away from the game, who do the two of you (and anyone else who cares to answer) would like to lynch and why? If there is a recent post which
outlines your view of the players, feel free to link to it instead.