Micro Normal 1094 | Game Over!

[Testarossa]

Inclined to think it rather was a bus, at least by gut. I can see a world with Arko as partner though. Ultimately I think it might be smarter to lim in me/Arko today as it's the smaller lim pool to clear. In worst case, if it should go till D4 half the Enchant wagon is going to get killed anyway, the off-wagon pool most likely never.

[Thomith]

Inclined to think it rather was a bus, at least by gut. I can see a world with Arko as partner though. Ultimately I think it might be smarter to lim in me/Arko today as it's the smaller lim pool to clear. In worst case, if it should go till D4 half the Enchant wagon is going to get killed anyway, the off-wagon pool most likely never.

Is it only because of gut that you think it was a bus, or is there any other indicators that make you think it was a bus?

I doubt Gamma is the busser if it was a bus. Nobody had expressed intent to hammer, and Black seemed to be having a relatively hard time convincing people to jump on the wagon in the first place (it took a good few pages before the wagon grew), so I don't see Gamma hammering that early as the partner in my opinion.

[Thomith]

Actually I guess Enchant did fakeclaim IC. Hm.

[Thomith]

I don't really understand ORAM's reason for voting Gamma tbh. Like there wasn't any real interaction between Gamma and Thomith for her to follow up after the vote anyway and Thomith brushed Gamma aside pretty fast anyway.

I like their post and timing though with looking elsewhere and felt kind of similar about the situation minus the Black townread. Probably my first positive vibe.

I feel like there's a world where this is Scum trying to make their partner look good, while giving enough distance to avoid a pairing forming - stating that she doesn't understand the read, but also pointing out that she gets a good vibe on the slot.

Hu Tao looks alright as well. Her vote looked at first kind of like by textbook tbh, however I find that more nai. Everything that followed up looked good to me.

I disliked Thomith's early "bait" posts more tbh and that he ignored Black when he thought of himself acting suspicious for going for an easy wagon, when she basically the same. Probably in line with his read on her though, which formed shortly after that.
I don't think he acts like scum that got caught redhanded though. He just seems overexplaining in general to me, at least his dedication seems genuine.

This was made after multiple people had already started jumping on me for the early pages, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), this was after Gamma, Hu Tao and Black started pressuring me for it, which I think is worth noting.

What pings you as scummy about ORAM, Arkos?

It's funny that you see a possible Thom/Black team. I thought they are t/s at most as they were acting too much together in like 3 situations at the beginning.
What feels similar about Black to your last game with her and would rather lean scum than town here?

I think I would put Naerys a bit more below, I kind of disliked her unvote, although for me it's more a gutread.

Arko's posts however...meh. I'm getting bad vibes here

I see your point regarding his Thom read. I have my thoughts about that as well, which reads else do you dislike though? Your readlists are pretty similar after all, so I figure you must be unhappy with his reasoning.

Speaking of that, on what is your scumlean on ORAM, now Klick, based on?

These two posts seem like they could be subtly defending the Enchant slot? Pointing it out, but I do want to reread the context of the posts around it to see if I get a different vibe than I did just from the ISO.

[Hu Tao]

I am 1-shot bulletproof btw.

Sus

[Hu Tao]

I think I want Kittie or Naerys. Everyone talking so far I don't want and arko I still like from day 1

[Thomith]

I am 1-shot bulletproof btw.

Sus

Why don't you like this claim?

[Hu Tao]

Just seems random. Why claim now? Even if she was unlikely to be killed if shes town, can't rule it out? She could always claim later.

[Naerys]

I am trying to figure out people. My D1 is usually bit weaker, but it gets better.
I am still on Black. I dont like her positioning upon me. She calls it "putting a pressure on me" but to me it feels like pure opportunism.

My problem is I have trouble with thinking your tunnel on Black feels like Arko's tunnel on her for example. Your play comes off as more static here, kind of like scum that doesn't know how to find a better target and how to engage with it. While I am no fan of the beetlejuicing argument, it's difficult to ignore how you were more present the very moment the wagon on you was formed. Can you explain why you think Black comes across as more opportunistic and with no intention of scumhunting here?

Also what's your take on Arko, Enchant slot and Thom?

Enchant likes to troll at D1, so its hard to read them.
Arko is thoughtful, feels like town.
I dont like Thom´s jumping on Enchant so null tier for now.

What do you think of Kittie's vote for Enchant?

I think I'd still like you to answer this please Naerys.

It doesnt feel as newbie bussing their partner. I agreed with Gamma that the way she wrote her posts was suspicious.But i understand that Enchant´s playstyle can be difficult to get used to. Could that be reason to bus? I suppose it could. I just dont think scum would phrase it like the way Kittie did

[Thomith]

I actually believe Thomith about his thought process, I think it's flawed and more complicated a plan than necessary but it feels real to me.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
If you thought Thomith was being weird, why vote him with no followup? One could say you've voted and explained later yourself.

I think Black and Hu Tao can be town for now. My gut says at least one of the scumteam is in the group of players who haven't engaged yet, but it's early in the day and as they get involved they should become sortable.

This makes me feel better about Gamma being town I think. From my POV, ORAM here was Scum defending a townie to look good should I have flipped Day 1, so the vote on Gamma seemed part of that defense.

I don't know how to analyse the second point without it being pure WIFOM, so pointing it out, but leaving it alone for now.

Got a bit of time before work

3: Klick voting Hu Tao: Can I get some like, thoughts on this vote? you are probably the first person here to have something besides a town read, let alone having a scum read. Would also be nice to hear your thoughts on more than just Hu Tao though.

I feel like the townreads on Hu Tao are rather weak reasoning for how strongly they're being expressed
I see no real reason she couldn't be scum

Her posting feels... careful, is probably the best way to describe it? I feel like there's a deliberate effort to make her posts feel like accurate description and to put out a large amount of content
I'm not really feeling the belief behind those thoughts though

This feels like trying to push someone who is widely townread to try and muddy the waters a bit.
I guess there's a world where this is a bus, but with how townread Hu Tao was at that point it feels like that would just be counter productive I guess?

Also Arko mafia

Eh. Throw someone else under bus to save self?

I guess i can try that.

VOTE: Arko

I don't know how to read these weird interactions with Arko. Want to point them out, but it's Enchant, so who really knows that they mean.

[Naerys]

Just seems random. Why claim now? Even if she was unlikely to be killed if shes town, can't rule it out? She could always claim later.

No, this was the best time.
The most important question for now is - has the fish taken the bait already?

[Gamma Emerald]

Fyi I feel like my opinion on Kittie is on the mend atm

[Thomith]

Kittie's vote on Enchant didn't seem like a bus, so I feel better about her too.

[Kittiesecret]

(Posting on mobile again forgive lack of formatting)

"Gamma could fit by how how non-chalant she did it, thought she was town though.

Eh, I think if it was a bus it's between Thom/Gamma."

If were entertaining the idea of a bus, I could get behind this. Gamma has felt off for me and the first post back felt a little sus IMO. And Thom seems to be playing (in my experience) like scum I have seen. Asking non consequential questions and disappearing into the background.

I feel like it wouldn't be out of line to think that Enchat threw himself on the sword so to speak. As the slot had changed over so many times so quickly. It almost wasn't worth playing it. And in a round about way making their partner look good.

Hu Tao, Feels genuine to me, I don't think their scum.

As for Naerys and Arko I am having a hard time getting a read on either of them. I feel like we don't hear enough from them and when we do they seem to be a little off topic. Or parroting what other players have said... And neither of them got involved in the lim keeping their votes on black.

[Thomith]

I don't agree with the statement that I've been disappearing into the background.

[DragonEater70]

not a VC

I know you guys like VCs, but there's 0 votes currently so you don't get one.

Deadline is (expired on 2023-12-05 17:38:55), though.

Also here's a random picture I found on my PC:

[Testarossa]

My issue with scumNaerys is, that she has trapped herself with the claim. After massclaim she has to get the other town prs limmed over her and she is basically stuck in a 1v1 for D4 elo then instead of having it more open. If she accidentally nightkills a pr earlier than it would be already over by D3, even if she wins the 1v1 against the other pr there. Unless she is crazy.

[Testarossa]

Is it only because of gut that you think it was a bus, or is there any other indicators that make you think it was a bus?

I doubt Gamma is the busser if it was a bus. Nobody had expressed intent to hammer, and Black seemed to be having a relatively hard time convincing people to jump on the wagon in the first place (it took a good few pages before the wagon grew), so I don't see Gamma hammering that early as the partner in my opinion.

Like I said, I always suspect a bus after a D1 scum flip, especially without any remarkable resistance. The only other plausible option from my point of view would be Arko otherwise. While it fits well by his reads of the Enchant slot, I have just been townreading him more than others so far. So a mix of gut and poe.

What I mean with Gamma is, that she was kind of fine voting Enchant when the wagon was in the making and the hammer came after the failed fakeclaim. You

can

see it as her positioning for a potential bus in time and then just abandoning Enchant when the claim failed, because from there on it was clear how it would end anyway. You made a good point with pointing out ORAM's push on Gamma though. It would be weird for ORAM to read you/Black/Hu Tao as town and then interrupt town infighting with a push on her partner.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am curious where Arko is rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Arko does look like possible scum after an ISO

[Hu Tao]

Arko does look like possible scum after an ISO

How so? I think their iso looks fine

[Gamma Emerald]

Mainly the stance on the flipped scum feels like what I’d expect scum to do
I also think the Black push is concerning in retrospect

[Thomith]

*SNIP*

Thomith... a very busy bee, feels town to me. *shrug*

Since you are now seemingly scumreading me, can you explain what you meant by this originally? What changed between this post and now?

[Naerys]

Nice pic, mod. Feels relaxing

[Thomith]

Mainly the stance on the flipped scum feels like what I’d expect scum to do
I also think the Black push is concerning in retrospect

I was going to defend Arko here, and say I didn't think he was the potential scum on the Black Wagon, because I remembered the sequence of events incorrectly, and thought he was one of the first on the wagon, but on a reread he was actually third.
Reading back though, it didn't seem like there was a huge amount of substance that seemed to be contributing to the Black Wagon, as Testarossa's vote was RVS still at that point I believe, and Naerys voted Black in 112, but this also seemed like early game vibes more than anything.
All this to say I think Arko's vote was the one that actually seemed to put pressure on to get the wagon going. There didn't seem to be any other strong wagon going at that point in time, so it wasn't as if this was a counter wagon in response to something I don't think.

There seemed to be multiple people suspecting Black, but there was a hesitance to put her at E-1, again pointing it out, not too sure how to read into that at the moment.

On a reread I like Hu Tao less than I did. Their early game questioning is what seemed to be carrying the Town Read for me, they seemed to be one of those people who while off the Black wagon, were kind of advocating for it still? Not sold though because Klick voting them for no reason as a "bus" would still feel quite weird to me. The early vote on Enchant also makes me still lean town I think.
I like Gamma more than I did, it seems to be applying pressure to get answers, but doesn't seem to be "stuck" on votes too long once getting reactions/answers to its pressure.

Naerys was still putting pressure on Black in 240, despite the wagon seemingly being dismantled for the most part at that point, while Testarossa jumped onto the Naerys wagon as soon as it started to pick up speed again.

Testarossa also jumping in with 339 to start questioning me, right after Black said she would potentially be willing to fade me still honestly makes me just think Testarossa could just be opportunistic scum trying to find a counter-wagon to Klick/Enchant (I think I mentioned that this felt weird to me before, but reading this again immediately pinged as weird to me again).

My gut is telling me there's a scum in Naerys/Testarossa.
I think I want to do this for now, to try and get things moving.
VOTE: Testarossa