Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[Dannflor]

VC 6.2

Missy's Theme

Enchant [1]:

OutWorldER

OutWorldER [1]:

Enchant

Not Voting [3]:

SmileyDude1, Thestatusquo, AnimatedWiz

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate. Day 6 ends in (expired on 2023-12-04 00:29:00).

Mod Notes:

[Enchant]

I never won 1vs1 as town really.

[Enchant]

expect 3 players elo

[AnimatedWiz]

Hi, I've returned!

My thoughts on Shea: y'all, I fear the theory of mind has left me, because even reading past games has not made understanding Shea's playstyle easy—I read through Amnesiac Mafia, and I would like to say Shea has been quite different this game, which leads me to be lean towards a townread for him? I, hm... my read of him and Black arguing around Day 3 made me incredibly suspicious of him for a time (I noted that I felt like at least one person in that interaction was scum), but upon looking at how he discusses with people in previous games I think he might just be like that. I wish I had a better grasp on him and his playstyle, but I don't think I got a smoking gun pointing one way or the other—just a better push towards town for him in my opinion.

Can you explain how you got to Hold being the top of your PoE here? Looking back through your stance towards OWER seemed more solidified to me then your stance on Hold (Compare 2130 towards OWER to something like2118 towards Hold), so it feels off to be content with limming Hold first there.

Quite honestly, it was two things:

a) At that point in the day, I saw that getting a final, solid push on OWER was not reasonable given how much pressure had mounted on THS instead. Considering THS was settling somewhere around my 2nd strongest scumread at that time, and Enchant had promised a plan to go for OWER after, I thought it a reasonable compromise. Plus, I had been accused of sitting pretty and trying to slip under the radar, and I figured I should hammer there to prove a point.


b) THS was acting really, really odd. THS thought I was the best vote when BlackStar flipped green instead of, y'know, Python (who had pushed the policy elimination of both of them). Additionally, THS just announces that he feels it's certain that there's a Mafia roleblocker instead of his failed night action being due to an unclaimed Ascetic/Commuter OWER 2015, which I thought was indicative of partnering. Also, the claimed night actions were really weird in my opinion, like how he tried to shoot really early on (which upon looking at some stuff on the wiki, is not that uncommon and is sometimes recommended)—I thought there could even be a possibility of THS lying about a failed track on OWER after me and Black were hard scumreading OWER for a while before to get us to miselim OWER maybe (I thought of this as possible, but unlikely—but it still influenced me, I fear).

I would like to vote OWER, but I want Shea to have a chance to share his thoughts first.

[AnimatedWiz]

Also, I'm a bit confused—why are you disregarding the idea of Shea and I being partnered, Smiley? I don't know if me needing to read up on him and saying I can't read him easily is like, great proof against that.

[AnimatedWiz]

Hi, I held the idiot ball again!

I now understand you mean that we can't be partnered because we both would've just voted for Enchant or OWER to win the game instead of asking for more time to think.

[AnimatedWiz]

b) THS was acting really, really odd. THS thought I was the best vote when BlackStar flipped green instead of, y'know, Python (who had pushed the policy elimination of both of them). Additionally, THS just announces that he feels it's certain that there's a Mafia roleblocker instead of his failed night action being due to an unclaimed Ascetic/Commuter OWER

in 2105

, which I thought was indicative of partnering. Also, the claimed night actions were really weird in my opinion, like how he tried to shoot really early on (which upon looking at some stuff on the wiki, is not that uncommon and is sometimes recommended)—I thought there could even be a possibility of THS lying about a failed track on OWER after me and Black were hard scumreading OWER for a while before to get us to miselim OWER maybe (I thought of this as possible, but unlikely—but it still influenced me, I fear).

Edited to include the correct reference post.

[AnimatedWiz]

...the edit is not linking to the right one either—I meant 2105.

I think I'm going to go lay down now.

[Thestatusquo]

i know I haven't been here much, I'm sorry.

This time its not the games fault its mine. I think I prefer ower over enchant but I am not sure.

[Thestatusquo]

I kind of keep coming back to the slip though.

[Enchant]

I kind of keep coming back to the slip though.

You free to make other reasonable guess who mafia attacked, if not claimed macho watcher.

[Thestatusquo]

see this is part of my problem though.

Like making an assumption is conscious when one thinks through the actions. Thinking through actions and coming to a conclusion is one thing, but that's not what happened and this whole defense feels disingenuous to me

[Thestatusquo]

eh fuck it, I've read the two isos and like this is hard to quantify in words but it just kinda feels like enchant has cared a lot more about finding scum this game than outworlder has.

like it really just feels like outworlder has been coasting completely without ever really caring very much about who gets eliminated at all.

[Thestatusquo]

I think that outweighs the slip thing.

[OutWorldER]

I would like to vote OWER, but I want Shea to have a chance to share his thoughts first.

I think I prefer ower over enchant but I am not sure.

One of you has to be town so I am begging either of you to tell me a single townie thing that Enchant has done all game. He tried to discredit our watcher and push her for shitty reasons both D2 and D3, he wanted to hammer our BG, he has positive associations with Python, he was basically the main mechanic behind our JOAT lim.

Like yeah, my reads have been bad, and I've lost a lot of WIM at points, but I've given reasons as to why that is. What has Enchant done this entire game but blow smoke left and right?

[Thestatusquo]

the mech solving stuff he was doing with the various different worlds based on the claim felt much closer to what i'd expect from town enchant than scum enchant. the refusal to participate in the mass claim also felt like something enchant was much more likely to do if enchant is town based on my experience with him.

Like I'm not gunna try to convince you because you're either scum or in a world where enchant is confirmed scum to you, but the claim that he hasn't done "a single town thing" is like...not factually accurate to the point of being kind of laughable?

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: outworlder

In addition to what I just said that last post just doesn't feel particularly genuine to me at all.

[OutWorldER]

Black basically KNEW i would hammer, goated you in putting on E-1, then "oh no troll how unfunny".

I think it's you afraid about posting results in fear that they will be disputed.

You don't have watcher result.

You still don't have watcher result.

In what world are these town posts? With everything we know after they were made, how do you see these as town posts? Enchant literally never gave a reason as to why he though Black's watcher was fake, and he was pushing her for dogwater reasons start of D2, and then promptly started lurking again once Naerys picked up the tunnel.

the mech solving stuff he was doing with the various different worlds based on the claim felt much closer to what i'd expect from town enchant than scum enchant. the refusal to participate in the mass claim also felt like something enchant was much more likely to do if enchant is town based on my experience with him.

Like I'm not gunna try to convince you because you're either scum or in a world where enchant is confirmed scum to you, but the claim that he hasn't done "a single town thing" is like...not factually accurate to the point of being kind of laughable?

And where did all of that mech solve leave us? His D3 mech was basically just "here's a punch of different possibilities" without any actual analysis. His D5 mech got the town JOAT limmed. None of it ended up benefitting the town.

[Enchant]

@Smiley
@Animated

Please announce if you hammer or not.

[Enchant]

His D5 mech got the town JOAT limmed.

You read that mech which contained "Slip".
Only after JOAT was hammered you suddenly remembered that thinking that mafia attacked watcher (most obvious kill which they always make) are slip. Which is kinda unreasonable.


If anything Outworld proved that he don't read anything people write, but saw this as opportunity.

[Enchant]

I mean i did tried to vote out every PR in this game.

... Yeah...

[Enchant]

Doesn't look cool really.

[AnimatedWiz]

I don’t want to hammer right now—I would like to think and consider my options because I really would like to not be responsible for the final miselim if I can help it.

[AnimatedWiz]

I do think it’s likely OWER here, but I would like to try to figure out who the most likely partner pairing is here—I could see OWER as scum and Enchant as a partner with Python, with them perhaps bussing each other here in the hopes that it’ll make the other on the chopping block not look like a good target?

Or is it possible that I’ve misread Shea, or even Smiley (not really possible on the last part, as it requires a really complicated series of lucky actions for the facts to line up how they do).

[AnimatedWiz]

Ugh, but if I stall on OWER’s elimination, people could claim I’ve been bussing all game until the end when my true partnership is suddenly revealed.

This is awful. I hate being a deciding vote in these kinds of situations—so many factors to weigh.