Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Keyleth]

Good day/evening! I hope everyone is doing well.

[Keyleth]

Good day/evening! I hope everyone is doing well.

Why did I read this as an evil laugh XD

Foreshadowing

Keyleth's logbook entry 5446: They're onto me. Act natural add more emojis.

[Keyleth]

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Why not the same amount of puzzlement at both?

I like this
You can be town too, for now

Oh I had the opposite reaction to the Dave post how interesting!

[Keyleth]

I'm not sure. Dunn's claim felt like a joke with it being the first post of the game. Kyouko's feels more real but I'm not familiar enough with her to tell if it's coming from scum

I feel Duun's claim is genuine, millers often claim miller in their opening posts. Duun's miller claim feels straight up, unlikely that mafia plays this directly. Kyouko feels real/potentially opportunistic, shielding herself behind the initial miller claim if she is mafia

VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko

I understand your thought process. We should probably give them a chance though. At least, I would feel bad voting them out based off that one post when it could be more than one miller. Can't say I personally played with those often so the idea is neat!

[Keyleth]

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Why not the same amount of puzzlement at both?

I like this
You can be town too, for now

Oh I had the opposite reaction to the Dave post how interesting!

That is fun
What are you thinking
Easy way for scum to look like they're doing something?

Well, I wouldn't be that harsh over it I just was curious if dave is the type of person to really dig into a causal question like that early. Maybe he's smarter than me but I wouldn't have ever thought to go that angle.

[Keyleth]

Well, I wouldn't be that harsh over it I just was curious if dave is the type of person to really dig into a causal question like that early.

In short, yes it's something I do often. There are multiple levels to the question, and asking it that way might reveal whether there is unconscious bias to focus on (or not focus on) different people.

I see! I'll let you get back to it then and do your wing chicken wing! Elements posting is a bit much but it's clear she's enjoying herself so I see no harm in it.

[Keyleth]

Gamma and Black probably town

Gamma has done what so far?

Why not the same amount of puzzlement at both?

I like this
You can be town too, for now

Oh I had the opposite reaction to the Dave post how interesting!

You feel Dave isn't town?

That wasn't what I was saying, no. That isn't how I play. I just kind of shrugged and went huh, so someone calling it really towny made me go like 'oh wow'

[Keyleth]

Is 4:13 the most likely breakdown with 17 players?

That would be my guess given you normally do the rule of 4!

[Keyleth]

VOTE: Keyleth
are you not a big fan of day 1s?

I haven't really thought of that question but, I wouldn't say I dislike them! They're a bit chaotic at times, but that has its own charm.

[Keyleth]

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

Slight chance mafia fakeclaims miller
They're guilty if investigated
If telling the truth, miller
If lying, mafia

Disagree, we get rid of them depending on results not on paranoia.

And by results I mean on their performance towards catching scum, not mechanical.

How do you deal with this when the people who know the wolves are the wolves themselves? Like, do you have a certain process? If you don't want to answer this you don't have to.

[Keyleth]

VOTE: Keyleth
are you not a big fan of day 1s?

I haven't really thought of that question but, I wouldn't say I dislike them! They're a bit chaotic at times, but that has its own charm.

You got any thoughts on any of the players?

I've given a few people some points! Shockingly haven't had to take any away at the moment, mostly cause the only stuff I found odd seemed to be playstyle and I'm not gonna hound someone for that.

[Keyleth]

Hrm, maybe I'm not seeing it for Kyouko but that could just be the way I play. I'll sit here and let people do their thing though the threadstate seems healthy so I'm not gonna get in yalls way.

[Keyleth]

Hrm, maybe I'm not seeing it for Kyouko but that could just be the way I play. I'll sit here and let people do their thing though the threadstate seems healthy so I'm not gonna get in yalls way.

Have you played mafia elsewhere?

Yeah! I played video mafia before. I'm not new to mafia but I tend to have everyone as town to begin with and then take away or give points. It's a lot easier for me because I feel like my ability to catch wolves is subpar.

Do you have any thoughts on people? I see a lot of your posting is mostly resolving around yourself. Not that that's a bad thing, but I'm curious!

[Keyleth]

Sorry, a lot of these posts feel really lost on me as in I'm assuming a lot of it isn't really important to the game? At least, that's the easy way for me to handle what just happened.

[Keyleth]

Sorry, a lot of these posts feel really lost on me as in I'm assuming a lot of it isn't really important to the game? At least, that's the easy way for me to handle what just happened.

A lot of it feels irrelevent
Can you vote someone?

I shall politely decline your request.

[Keyleth]

Sorry, a lot of these posts feel really lost on me as in I'm assuming a lot of it isn't really important to the game? At least, that's the easy way for me to handle what just happened.

A lot of it feels irrelevent
Can you vote someone?

I shall politely decline your request.

Can I ask why?

I don't really feel the desire to vote anyone! Maybe I would vote to help pressure a wagon but it's a bit early for that.

[Keyleth]

Elements do you like playing as a wolf? I kinda figured your energy was just overeager town but I guess if you like mafia it could be that too.

[Keyleth]

I think Broccoli's entrance into the thread felt very nice. I like it personally. Trying to figure out why people are wolfreading Celeb if people could give me a hand with that it'd be lovely. The person that has the lowest points on my chart seems to be TR so it is just likely I am incorrect. The pace of this game is somehow both casual in dialect and yet really hard to process.

[Keyleth]

Sick CSF having a really good post can mean they get the day 1 pass because I would feel bad otherwise.

[Keyleth]

What's the basis of scum!Dunn?

You caught me, that was the one read that was 80% fake

the reason for the 20% probably has to do more with his playstyle than his alignment, but I just felt his posts had a tone which doesn't feel towny to me.

This is a weird post. Acknowledges it is based on playstyle and is very vague... it doesn't actually say or explain anything.

I think Broccoli's entrance into the thread felt very nice. I like it personally. Trying to figure out why people are wolfreading Celeb if people could give me a hand with that it'd be lovely. The person that has the lowest points on my chart seems to be TR so it is just likely I am incorrect. The pace of this game is somehow both casual in dialect and yet really hard to process.

Who has the lowest points on your chart?

At the moment Naerys/Black!

[Keyleth]

Kyouko, Kawaii, and CSF have the most points I should add. So if anyone has suspicions on those slots I'd love to talk them over with you.

[Keyleth]

What's the basis of scum!Dunn?

You caught me, that was the one read that was 80% fake

the reason for the 20% probably has to do more with his playstyle than his alignment, but I just felt his posts had a tone which doesn't feel towny to me.

This is a weird post. Acknowledges it is based on playstyle and is very vague... it doesn't actually say or explain anything.

I think Broccoli's entrance into the thread felt very nice. I like it personally. Trying to figure out why people are wolfreading Celeb if people could give me a hand with that it'd be lovely. The person that has the lowest points on my chart seems to be TR so it is just likely I am incorrect. The pace of this game is somehow both casual in dialect and yet really hard to process.

Who has the lowest points on your chart?

At the moment Naerys/Black!

Black? Thats interesting. Why? I personally get towny vibes from Black. They are offering good insight and are actively hunting scum. So far they feel like their town self i played with.

Oh they just have the least points to me. I just have other people doing stuff I've liked more? If Black is that good a player as you say then I'm sure she'll do great I'm not that worried about it.

[Keyleth]

Just saying most / least points without any kind of backing feels really shallow and arbitrary to me.

I can go into some answers if you want but I don't mind just playing in the background for the most part so I haven't really answered anything because it hasn't been asked ya know? Not trying to appear a certain way.

[Keyleth]

I will say shallow is a new one though no one's ever called me that I was taken back for a moment.

Gamma, I know it might be a tad draining but can you give me a spicy read? It doesn't have to be much but just any sort of hot take would be nice!

[Keyleth]

I feel like my Guillo TR was spicy for a while? But as for other spicy takes, I have a concern about how BQ2 is playing. It feels like the “townblock” they proposed is bring weaponized by them.

Like, they were trying to use it to go deep as a wolf and get into the townblock?

[Keyleth]

I like Gamma's post here They can get more points.

[Keyleth]

I like Gamma's post here They can get more points.

What do you like about it?

The fact she didn't back down, it feels like they're showing real conviction in the post and trying to find a wolf. Like, if Broccoli flips town that's gonna look bad for Gamma. I would expect a more peaceful option.

[Keyleth]

I like Gamma's post here They can get more points.

What do you like about it?

The fact she didn't back down, it feels like they're showing real conviction in the post and trying to find a wolf. Like, if Broccoli flips town that's gonna look bad for Gamma. I would expect a more peaceful option.

I dont remember if I asked you this already but how long have you played mafia?

I've played a lot of video mafia and some quick mafia and used to play a few games here on my old account. So I'm not new to mafia or forum if that's what has you curious.

[Keyleth]

I like Gamma's post here They can get more points.

What do you like about it?

The fact she didn't back down, it feels like they're showing real conviction in the post and trying to find a wolf. Like, if Broccoli flips town that's gonna look bad for Gamma. I would expect a more peaceful option.

I dont remember if I asked you this already but how long have you played mafia?

I've played a lot of video mafia and some quick mafia and used to play a few games here on my old account. So I'm not new to mafia or forum if that's what has you curious.

Ok then why someone you push to their death and flipping town automatically makes you look bad?

From my experience most people who start the push are the ones who become the most underflame from a push. Especially with how intense Gamma was about it.

[Keyleth]

Goodnight Guillotina get plenty of rest.

[Keyleth]

I like Keyleth's playstyle
I can see it being town but also a good way to hide as scum

Isn't that a bad thing? Why would you like a style that lets scum hide?

I can appreciate the desire to keep one's reads close to the chest

I'm not really trying to keep reads to my chest. I think the best way to put it is, I always have everyone start as town and given I think the most fun part of mafia is working as a team I tend to be pretty passive and if someone is more confident on a read I let them lead.

You can ask me about any slot and I'll tell you my opinion on them I just don't openly state it a lot because of nerves. Although, I guess I can see how that'd be advantageous.

[Keyleth]

I'm getting concerned about dave tbh

What's got you worried?

[Keyleth]

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

I understand where your post is coming fromI read it as someone just wanting to state the obvious. However, I personally don't really know where to point the smoking gun because I can see it as either side. I've given Dave BOTD because most people push me because of how I play on here, do you think the shade posts are in bad faith?

[Keyleth]

Is there uh, anything I can do to help dave?

[Keyleth]

I for one think it's all in the seasonings.

[Keyleth]

I want to just put Elements as town as bad but they said they like wolf, so maybe they would be that energetic as a wolf but normally the people who empty post are just villagers and I've gone back on this read like at least four times so far.

I still think Gamma is really good comfy in your face kinda vibes. Her interactions just feel pure personally.

Kyouko and Kawai are also nice and in my good towncore kinda spot.

Just need a few more and then I can relax! Hopefully. Probably not, but I can dream.

[Keyleth]

WHy is it scummy to want to know people's reads?

For example I would have wanted to wagon CSF or Keyleth (just outta PoE, not due to anything especially scummy), but it feels like people are implicitly TRing them, and then I feel demotivated to do anything about it because people are like "nah" but there was no explicit consensus TR before that. If we have consensus TRs I can start a wagon which I know could get support.

I like this post because it feels sort of bold? It's openly a strategy I think can be exploited as a wolf and I kind of would expect this to be a bit more coy if it was coming from a wolf if that makes sense? Like, I see the world where a wolf posts this but I see more worlds where a villager does.

[Keyleth]

black play here feels very analytical and logical, it's hard for me to wrap a read on that given I'm mostly the other way. Not that I haven't run into people like this but it's a 50/50 most of the time.

[Keyleth]

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

[Keyleth]

keyword in that sentence is mostly.

[Keyleth]

Feel free to answer this after your convo with dave Dunn but do you scumread them? I uh, don't really understand the point of that post.

[Keyleth]

My bad

[Keyleth]

Question to everyone, is it me or there seems to be resistance to a Naerys vote even though they have contributed a lot less than other slots like Elements or myself who got more votes on, in spite our higher activity. Why is that? What's the story?

I feel like Naerys is actually a pretty popular suspect?

I honestly couldn't tell if Naerys was a popular suspect or just because Guilo has the most posts.

[Keyleth]

You feel a lot different from this game where it turned out scum were leading a wagon on you.
Naerys + mod iso, day 3 is relevant

Having the two largest wagons of the entire day be almost completely disjoint is not giving me any good feelings.
I can't spend time right at bedtime to run this down, with a 7am meeting that I'm a leader for. It will be 2.5 days or less the next time I do have time.

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

Not loving this idea, it seems a little too guide-the-townies-to-their-death to me.

Thanks, I was having trouble thinking of words that I could use to describe my reaction.
I generally like broccoli, but that post didn't quite taste right to me.

These are posts I really enjoy from dave by the way. While he had one that made me feel weird, I chalked it up to me mostly not understanding things and that's a negative emotion so. But here, there's like nuance in the posting ya know? I just really enjoy it.

[Keyleth]

Also I should never be trusted to use logic to townread someone because that made my largest TR a wolf in a game that ended and I am still red in the face over it.

[Keyleth]

I probably should look at the Naerys wagon more, I thought the only people who were thinking that slot is wolfy were dave and Guilio respectively. I don't have any strong feelings about it but if my strong townreads were on it I'd obviously support it. ^^

To answer your question tree of green (Broccoli even!) I'm having a hard time understanding it because it feels like it's missing a few points to it? I was just gonna let Black do her own thing even if I personally am tilting my head to the side.

[Keyleth]

I can now say Kyouko feels like the same game we were in without being smited phew.

[Keyleth]

I'm giving Hu Tao a chance to answer the post, no qualms about sheeping though!

[Keyleth]

No rush gob take your time in catching up.

[Keyleth]

Wait, three miller claims so far? I thought there were only two did I miss one?

[Keyleth]

I am so lost over why people want to vote kyouko truthfully, can you spell it out to me like I'm five? Thank you.

[Keyleth]

If you want to know why people scumread her then you can check who's voting for her and look through their ISO's. I looked through yours and saw a lot of subtle defending of her slot but no real read other than she feels like she did in a previous game you played, which is pretty weak

I'm not saying it like I haven't read people's posts, I have read people's posts and that's why I'm so confused on why people are wolfreading them because I do not see a lot of reasoning to begin with. That's the problem. Not even something like gut pings. It just seems like people are following and that's fine if it is but can we like, say that's what it is!

I feel like I've pretty actively said I'm townreading the slot more than others due to my point system and while it may seem like a weak reason I just feel like they're town and the way people have played around the slot doesn't really make me change that so I'm sitting here asking for people to help me see it ya know?

[Keyleth]

I may disagree with Timmer's idea on a personal level but I can at least see how they feel that way. Guillotina sort of sheeps the idea but that's all I really see? Maybe my Kyouko vibe reader is off and you can haha egg on my face but it feels like we even did the same thing with Hu Tao? I'm not used to this sort of just unified sheeping D1 so it's hard to wrap my head around.

[Keyleth]

I am so lost over why people want to vote kyouko truthfully, can you spell it out to me like I'm five? Thank you.

Better yet, why don't you tell us why you townread kyouko

Innocent until proven guilty as they say!

[Keyleth]

That is, how I play the game yes. You're not wrong. I feel like it's one of the best ways to have fun in the game.

[Keyleth]

In the event that I am flipped, Kawaii, Kyouko, Gamma. Are my top townreads. A bit lower than that being dave, elements, and guillotina.

Townie is my claim by the way.

[Keyleth]

If you're confused, or need context on any of those reads feel free to ask! I believe the only one I haven't gone into detail on is guillotina but when I was looking at the playerlist for who I wanted to put as the 6th slot he just seemed best to me! I don't really have any spicy takes.

[Keyleth]

In the event that I am flipped, Kawaii, Kyouko, Gamma. Are my top townreads. A bit lower than that being dave, elements, and guillotina.

Townie is my claim by the way.

Can you explain these reads?

Kawaii: has really uninformed posting in my eyes and I just look at their posts and they feel good? Like he's just so focused on the miller claims and I go "whoa would you focus on that as mafia?" Of course you can, but it's hard to explain I just don't really see it. Look at their play around Kyouko early too! I can grab post numbers if needed but I think coming to your own answer is better than my own. Hang on found the post button I was referring to 112 in the iso to the unvote. It was an early game I really enjoyed.

Kyouko: I've already touched on this one but like, that wall doesn't come from a wolf, right? Especially when you get wagoned right after for it almost to you going over. I don't have much like, big logic and fancy posts for this read but I'm just yeah. I'd be a bit shocked but it could just be me not understanding how certain people go about things.

Gamma's fight with broccoli felt town to me, (sidenote broccoli's towncore post was nice too!) they have this whole idgaf energy and a lot of her posts are resolved around themselves. I don't know, I've never seen mafia play in an openly self-centered sounds mean but I don't mean it as an insult. Maybe I need to read a Gamma wolf game but they feel town.

Elements and dave I explained in my iso while Guilotina is mostly a villager due to their unconventional style of playing the game. I've never seen it and I kind of just want to see more of it although I guess maybe I shouldn't post that if this is gonna be my sort of dying reads.

[Keyleth]

Sorry I would've given more details but I just got out of work so I am quite tired at the current moment. I am ready to be sent to the dead thread best of luck town! o7

[Keyleth]

In the event that I am flipped, Kawaii, Kyouko, Gamma. Are my top townreads. A bit lower than that being dave, elements, and guillotina.

Townie is my claim by the way.

Do you tend to shift into scumhunting later?

I ask this because I think from what I can discern this Key wagon seems built on playstyle, which might still hit scum but I feel super-skeptical

Sort of? I try to find people who I confidently townread and then there's this pool of people I feel fine voting.

Lots of times though I would just join my townreads on a wagon as long as it's not on another townread because getting reads wrong is one of the most feels bad part of mafia so the idea of me leading a wagon on someone and getting it wrong is aaaaa.

So short answer, kind of yes long answer is it's complicated.

[Keyleth]

Kyouko: I've already touched on this one but like, that wall doesn't come from a wolf, right? Especially when you get wagoned right after for it almost to you going over. I don't have much like, big logic and fancy posts for this read but I'm just yeah. I'd be a bit shocked but it could just be me not understanding how certain people go about things.

Kyouko was your biggest townread before the wall. What was the thought process behind the read then?

I never really understood the wagon on them, plus they felt the same as a game we were in I just couldn't talk about it because it was ya know, still happening! Now that it's over I suggest everyone go take a look and come to your own thoughts on her! Oh wait I haven't use that emoji before it's cute.

[Keyleth]

Sort of? I try to find people who I confidently townread and then there's this pool of people I feel fine voting.

I just noticed you haven't voted at all this game. Is there a pool of people you would be fine voting for today?

Yeah I'm not normally one to place down a vote unless my townread goes 'Hey Keyleth come vote with us!' Or we're near the deadline. As for a pool of people I'd be fine voting it's probably anyone that wasn't on the list I've given before.

You don't need to take these reads to heart though after I flip because the reason I try to find villagers is I feel like my scumhunting is awful.

[Keyleth]

I'll be honest, joining the Key wagon feels a lot like kicking a puppy, but I can see this being a great asset to a scum game for her as well.

@Key, do you have any completed scum games?

Shockingly, no! Neither on this account or my old account did I roll scum at all on this site. Part of me wants to roll it to find out but on the other hand the pressure of being a wolf sounds horrifying.

[Keyleth]

this pool of people I feel fine voting

Which is apparently nobody, given you haven't voted.

You got me!

[Keyleth]

My reason for voting Keyleth is an iso full of giving and taking away mysterious town points without much or any stated reasons, having no scumreads at all, and having not voted the entire game not even rvs. I don't know if the others have that same reason.

What are your other wolfreads? I know my flip so, just rumor me in the event I'm a villager tell me what does that do for you?

[Keyleth]

Sorry today was really rough on me I wish I could've logged on sooner to help out.

[Keyleth]

(Although I guess that's what happens when your co-worker doesn't come in and asks you to do double the work and I just say yes)

I probably would've supported a Celeb wagon, just hope my read on Kawaii is wrong.

[Keyleth]

Huh, and here I thought Gamma was town, egg on face! Hu Tao stuff is sort of a bit shocking but nothing I really see the need to go into? I've seen more anti-town funny claims before.

[Keyleth]

Hu Tao looks good off the Gamma flip though, no? I wouldn't vote there today.

I also think the same can be said for Guilo and Celeb. I was looking back at the attempted flash wagon on Gamma and they're the votes that stood out to me the most.

[Keyleth]

Timmer I think would look bad if it wasn't for the townslips and boy am I a sucker for townslips

Broccoli fight can never be SvS with Gamma, right? Please bonk me if that's wrong I think it's good though?

I could support Hu Tao on Elements if they want.

[Keyleth]

VOTE: Elements

Yeah, if two of my big townreads are on this I will offer my support!

[Keyleth]

I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.

maybe bcz u went from vanilla claim to doc claim. That does not make you the most trustworthy person around here.

I do agree it looks weird on paper but Gamma was trying to send Hu Tao over! Do you think Gamma was just trying to damn a partner over someone like Kyouko or myself? I guess the main question is how many of the main wagons do we believe were on a wolf between Hu Tao, Kyouko, and myself. We already know the other two were one town and one wolf. Oh this is fun!

[Keyleth]

Well I did openly claim so you're always free to check me!

[Keyleth]

I think there's a difference between miscommunication and not understanding something vs the actions themselves being malicious or deliberately bad. I uh, personally think this is mostly the case of the former and don't see a reason to vote there at the current moment.

[Keyleth]

Do you still feel like Elements is a hit Hu Tao? (My topic changing skills are amazing!)

[Keyleth]

Uh, I guess I should ask is Vanilla townie different from townie?

[Keyleth]

Because you guys keep saying Vanilla, and that isn't in my role pm.