Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Mine

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll answer you when I'm on PC @Black

[Naerys]

Question to everyone, is it me or there seems to be resistance to a Naerys vote even though they have contributed a lot less than other slots like Elements or myself who got more votes on, in spite our higher activity. Why is that? What's the story?

I feel like Naerys is actually a pretty popular suspect?

Yes but not many actually trying to vote her out. Seems like just saying it but not doing much

Oh fk off already
You are sitting on me with not really decent reasoning, sniping some clever remarks and doing nothing otherwise
I am pretty tired and annoyed of this “naerys must be scum”
Yeah no i am not and you are starting to piss me off

How about me? Am i starting to piss you off or is it just Hu and why are we different if so?

You havent been on me as long as Hu Tao and i somewhat accept your reasoning. I need to be active more. I was slacking a bit and i needed to be puushed but its still frustrating. You did upset me, but not as much as Hu did.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Like what does that even accomplish? If anything that makes me slightly scum read you for that question

Are you saying you are scumreading me for asking why voting you is sus?

Because I am just going to ask why is it slightly scummy to ask why is it sus to scumread you based on something that I think shouldn't be sus to scumread you on.

Are you confused yet? Because I'm not.

[Naerys]

Im confused after this post. Do you scum read Hu's activity or not?

I am suspicious of Hu Tao. Any differencies from their town behavior makes me wary of them.
Plus the fact that i tend to be used as a limbait by scum.

[Black]

VOTE: Hu Tao

I'm down to wagon this

[Naerys]

Is inaccuracy alignment indicative for you?

Mistakes can happen. But to see if the mistake is honest or purposeful its good to look at vca and observe reactions of people.
So i would say it depends on circumstances.

[Naerys]

How being wrong develops your read on Hu?

Not really much,tbh. I dont like the way the sit on me and the way they are being vague. I wouldnt mind if Hu decided to share a RL

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Naerys, hate to break it to ya, but asking politely for someone to share a read list is not exactly how you hunt scum. Can you vote Hu Tao please? Or Alternatively, give a scum case for somebody else and vote them?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah ok actually if it comes down to it today I'd put Naerys high in my POE after reading her ISO, but I'd prefer one of my own scumreads dave/celebloki. Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here, probably higher than Celebloki from an outside POV. I know people in general are hesitant to hard scumread or hard townread off of small things the way I SR Celebloki but it's like the same way I got my hard Elements TR in Open 893. I could just smell lazy town from a mile away when they tried to scumread Gamma for pretty low effort meta reasons (turned out they were right about Gamma though)

What is it that you dislike about Naerys's ISO?

Actually I'm reading it again on desktop rather than mobile and it's not as bad. I still take issue with some of the theoretical/waffling posting in here but I think I read it too fast. I'm up to post 555 now on rereading and this is the part that gets more complex, I really need to be on desktop to see what is happening here and see if Naerys is actually caught in something, or if Hu Tao is mistaken, or if Hu Tao is acting in bad faith here. But yeah this is what I saw up to 555:

Spoiler: ISO quotes with commentary

From what I gathered, Miller claims are pretty controversial. Scum could claim this early in order to deter any potential investigative roles from targeting them, so people generally aren't a big fan of these claims

indeed, but if its true, its better to claim it asap
In my opinion, claiming miller this early feels towny. Of course, scum could be bold enough to try to pull this. But i find it unlikely. Most scum i have played against did not like much attention at D1.

This felt waffley when I was reading it the first time yesterday, and even again today, because it was like "claiming miller early is towny. But it also could be scummy." But later on Naerys solidifies this stance so it's not as waffley as I thought. By itself it's waffley and when reading quickly I didn't notice the reinforcement that comes later when Naerys firmly is in the "miller claims are town" camp

For now my first impressions are that dave and both millers could be town.
Still too far from finding a scum, but its a start.

So this is the first time she reaffirms that both millers could be town - fine enough, and by itself, like a lot of her reads, it looks shallow. I think this is more of a playstyle thing though, to make short posts, because when questioned she does have reasonable answers about her reads, and her reads make sense. She just doesn't explain them always.

I'm too late to be the first one to bring up that questioning Elements over apparently getting Dunn and me confused seems pretty nit picky. To me jumping on a "slip" is scum more often than town. Not enough to make a read from but worth remembering.

I think it depends on the slip. When person starts to pushing for a person that got previous night NKed, i think that deserves to be pushed. But mistaking one player for another can happen easily to anyone. Especially if they have similiar names/pictures. Happened to me, was quite embarassing. So i can relate to Elements and honestly dont really feel like pushing him for it.
As for scum pushing this slip - yes, it feels like something scum would try to exploit. Some players still didnt even post, so the chance that Elements was pushed by townies only is an equal one in my mind.

At first I thought this post was sort of weird - too hypothetical, but I realize it's just worded clunkily and it starts with a hypothetical counterexample to the actual "slip" that was being pushed at the time. I think since it started in a way that felt weird I had trouble keeping up with it but slowing down, I can see the first bit is explaining why Elements might have mixed up dave/dunn. Then she moves on to say scum could be pushing elements for the mixup, but also that a lot of players haven't posted and everyone posting (or maybe just everyone pushing Elements) could be town. I think this, recognziing there are people that haven't posted yet and thinking the scum could be there, is town-indicative and I did not pick up on it the first time I read this post or when I read Naerys's ISO on my phone yesterday. Today I'm seeing it.

I'm too late to be the first one to bring up that questioning Elements over apparently getting Dunn and me confused seems pretty nit picky. To me jumping on a "slip" is scum more often than town. Not enough to make a read from but worth remembering.

I think it depends on the slip. When person starts to pushing for a person that got previous night NKed, i think that deserves to be pushed. But mistaking one player for another can happen easily to anyone. Especially if they have similiar names/pictures. Happened to me, was quite embarassing. So i can relate to Elements and honestly dont really feel like pushing him for it.

What scum agenda involves pushing the last night’s NK?

Not much of agenda as lack of engagement and paying attention.
Even though he isnt in this game,scum!gob is already legendary for these slips

This post I actually didn't like either time reading it, and it even got me again when I was quoting posts I don't like, but now that I have more context on the previous post (pushing last night's NK), I know that that was sort of an outlandish example of a slip that should always be pushed to be in opposition to a more reasonable "slip" (being an accidental slip anyone could make, not a scumslip), which is what Naerys was saying Elements' "slip" was. The reason I didn't like it is because I don't like bringing up scum!gob who is not in this game because it feels like a distraction from the pressure being put on Naerys by the question posed by Gamma, but actually I think if Gamma had read the original post more closely in the first place it would have been clear that the example provided wasn't meant to be comparable to this game, and she maybe wouldn't have asked it of Naerys in the first place. I can't speak for Gamma here but yeah.

I'm delighted to hear that you judge me by my color and species and NOT by my behavior. That's truly the best way to judge people.

Well, since it behaved quite nastily in my stomech i would say i judged it by behavior too.
Idk if juicy. I dont get much of solving vibe from Keyleth, so if she posted some RL it´d be nice. Same goes Kawaii.
Andresvmb lurks and i have habit of putting some pressure at lurkers.
VOTE: Andresvmb

This post does feel like justifying her vote unnecessarily at first, but I actually think it's a really sensical town-motivated vote. It looks like Naerys's style thus far has been to form Townreads at the start and move on from there. She didn't start by scumhunting, she started by townhunting and that's totally fine especially in a large game like this. I think Naerys's wording can read as scummy because it can be clunky but I assume English is just not her first language given how she posts and that her location is Czech Republic.

So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even. Will need to see how the back and forth with Hu Tao went and maybe see if there's been some bad faith coming from HT.

[Keyleth]

Question to everyone, is it me or there seems to be resistance to a Naerys vote even though they have contributed a lot less than other slots like Elements or myself who got more votes on, in spite our higher activity. Why is that? What's the story?

I feel like Naerys is actually a pretty popular suspect?

I honestly couldn't tell if Naerys was a popular suspect or just because Guilo has the most posts.

[Black]

Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here

So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.

These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real

To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum

VOTE: kyouko

[Keyleth]

You feel a lot different from this game where it turned out scum were leading a wagon on you.
Naerys + mod iso, day 3 is relevant

Having the two largest wagons of the entire day be almost completely disjoint is not giving me any good feelings.
I can't spend time right at bedtime to run this down, with a 7am meeting that I'm a leader for. It will be 2.5 days or less the next time I do have time.

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

Not loving this idea, it seems a little too guide-the-townies-to-their-death to me.

Thanks, I was having trouble thinking of words that I could use to describe my reaction.
I generally like broccoli, but that post didn't quite taste right to me.

These are posts I really enjoy from dave by the way. While he had one that made me feel weird, I chalked it up to me mostly not understanding things and that's a negative emotion so. But here, there's like nuance in the posting ya know? I just really enjoy it.

[Keyleth]

Also I should never be trusted to use logic to townread someone because that made my largest TR a wolf in a game that ended and I am still red in the face over it.

[DragonEater70]

Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here

So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.

These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real

To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum

VOTE: kyouko

lol what

Context is a thing

[Black]

Naerys feels like she has a decent chance to be scum here

So yeah after reading closer I don't think Naerys is scummy up to 555. She's towny even.

These reads are so different that I'm having a hard time believing they are real

To me it seems like you were trying to leave room for you to support and eventually join the Naerys wagon but then couldn't justify the read when asked about it, and I think that's more likely to come from scum

VOTE: kyouko

lol what

Context is a thing

[DragonEater70]

Keyleth, what do you think on the Naerys wagon? And what do you think of Black's vote?

[Black]

What context am I missing here broccoli dragon?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Fuck

This is literaly my first altslip ever

I blame my browser for being weird with cookies

[Broccoli Quest 2]

well you snipped out the context for both reads so of course they look weird when juxtaposed. If you read the context, the read change isn't even weird IMO.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

actually no, it's not my browser's fault, I just remembered what I did wrong. Damn it.

[Keyleth]

I probably should look at the Naerys wagon more, I thought the only people who were thinking that slot is wolfy were dave and Guilio respectively. I don't have any strong feelings about it but if my strong townreads were on it I'd obviously support it. ^^

To answer your question tree of green (Broccoli even!) I'm having a hard time understanding it because it feels like it's missing a few points to it? I was just gonna let Black do her own thing even if I personally am tilting my head to the side.

[Black]

well you snipped out the context for both reads so of course they look weird when juxtaposed. If you read the context, the read change isn't even weird IMO.

The only thing I snipped out in the first quote was that kyouko looked at Naerys's ISO and scumread her, which makes it even worse. I snipped out the reasoning in the second quote because it wasn't relevant to my point. The reasons felt like an over justification for the read change. I'm not buying it

[Guillotina]

Plus the fact that i tend to be used as a limbait by scum.

Can someone here other than Naerys confirm this?

[Black]

Plus the fact that i tend to be used as a limbait by scum.

Can someone here other than Naerys confirm this?

This was sort of the case in Mini Normal 2316 that just ended, though it felt like Naerys was limbait by everyone lol