Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

no bloops for you

[davesaz]

eek, yellow text on sepia. I can tell something is there but have to hilight it to even tell it's text.

I think that case is pretty weak at best, and maybe even a bit opportunistic.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait I am so confused now - why would you snip my original quote out of 465 lmao

[davesaz]

You could have not done that and let me just get the natural. Plus is Elements even here rn?

[Black]

Oh, going back to read it now since I was wondering why you were confused about that, I think you were actually wagonning Guillotina at the time so it would be the wagon on Guillotina I was referring to. I made 465 when I read 384 - you were voting me before Guillo and I think that's why when remembering back now I thought I was referring to your vote/wagon on me

Ok. So when you thought I was wagoning you, you said I was town because you didn't think I would "stew over their wagon"...but you meant "stew over

my

wagon"?

I'm not trying to be dense and I'm sorry this is so confusing. I just want to understand this comment and your read

[Elements]

You could have not done that and let me just get the natural. Plus is Elements even here rn?

I'm semi reading semi building set for panto

[davesaz]

More generally, would anyone stew over a wagon they're pushing on someone else? How does that yield anything AI in either direction?
I would think that stewed wagon would be very tough and chewy.
Chuckwagon stew, as in the style not ingredients, can be tasty.

[Keyleth]

I for one think it's all in the seasonings.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Guillotina

I think there's partner equity in Guillotina/kyouko

Guillotina said she would support a kyouko wagon but jumped off less than 30 minutes later, right after Elements and I joined.

I don't think the Celebloki vote was a very good reason to suddenly end their support and having Celebloki at the bottom of their preliminary reads in 310 feels like a performative justification for voting there rather than an actual read

In both 293 and 377 they made sure to include that they weren't voting for the same reason as the person they were sheeping which feels like scum that might be trying to flaunt that their read is unique and different

I think the questions from Guillotina are like...ok, but nothing scum couldn't come up with in an attempt to seem townie, and I think the interpretation in 374 is really odd and it just feels like unnecessary shade towards Timmer

Black is town I think. I don't think scum stews over their wagon like this. I think the conclusion of partner equity comes more from reading us both individually as scum than it does from the references evidence, and probably I need to go back but I dont know

why

Black is/was voting me.

I think Guillotina's play can be interpreted the way Black has done, as performative, but I'll also say that this game's Guillotina feels a far cry from Chrono Trigger where I did correctly identify them as scum on D1 and they led a mislim on me that Day. I've only played with Guillotina once and that's how it went so I am being vigilant.

So yeah I was talking about the wagon on me - I think when you made 384 it was because you were stewing over a scumread on me (for reference your previous post was a vote on me) and when you saw Guillo move votes off of me you were so focused on me being scum that the immediate assumption is Guillo must also be my scumbuddy. I don't think scum is stewing over their fake scumreads which means you were at the time genuinely scumreading me which means you are town - at the very least towny enough for D1 in a 17p game. Not interested in eliminating you toDay.

If "stewing over" is what is confusing, it's when you're silently thinking over something that bothers you, sort of implies getting heated about it as well - akin to cooking a stew (which cooks at a lower temp for a long time). I'm not sure if it's an idiom and I don't get the impression English is not your first language, so sorry if the confusion stemmed from that.

[Black]

I know what stewing over means

But ok now I get it based on your first paragraph. Thanks for breaking it down for me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You could have not done that and let me just get the natural. Plus is Elements even here rn?

I also like pagetops though so I'll take them when I see them - not going to intentionally hyperpost to or spam to take the pagetop, but when I finish my post and see it's 699 I'm 100% of the time going to take the pagetop

[Keyleth]

I want to just put Elements as town as bad but they said they like wolf, so maybe they would be that energetic as a wolf but normally the people who empty post are just villagers and I've gone back on this read like at least four times so far.

I still think Gamma is really good comfy in your face kinda vibes. Her interactions just feel pure personally.

Kyouko and Kawai are also nice and in my good towncore kinda spot.

Just need a few more and then I can relax! Hopefully. Probably not, but I can dream.

[Black]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

So you're entire case on Celebloki is that you think his RVS vote was safe? I don't really think scum would be concerned over the optics of an RVS vote

Does anyone else have anything more substantial?

[Black]

Your** damn mobile

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

So you're entire case on Celebloki is that you think his RVS vote was safe? I don't really think scum would be concerned over the optics of an RVS vote

Does anyone else have anything more substantial?

Yes, that it was safe on purpose. Nobody else has cased Celebloki I don't think. Guillo said his vote was for a different reason than mine so maybe he posted a reason somewhere, I feel like I read his reason and it didn't leave a lasting impression because I don't remember it. Mostly I remember being disappointed it was not for the reason I had not yet spoken

[davesaz]

I don't think Celebloki has had a single post that wasn't about RN, which is more than a little suspicious.

VOTE: Celebloki

[Black]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

So you're entire case on Celebloki is that you think his RVS vote was safe? I don't really think scum would be concerned over the optics of an RVS vote

Does anyone else have anything more substantial?

Yes, that it was safe on purpose. Nobody else has cased Celebloki I don't think. Guillo said his vote was for a different reason than mine so maybe he posted a reason somewhere, I feel like I read his reason and it didn't leave a lasting impression because I don't remember it. Mostly I remember being disappointed it was not for the reason I had not yet spoken

What is the scum motivation behind a safe RVS vote? I guess what I'm asking is do you think scum are paranoid about how their RVS votes look?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

640 bothered me because it was so "mediator-ish" without really adding anything thoughtful. I think we could all see both sides, even if personally we would agree with Gamma or with BQ2: Electric Boogaloo. I don't think it's hard to see that Gamma felt the behavior was manipulative and also that BQ2 did not mean it in that way (or at least says he didn't, which feeds more into it feeling manipulative to Gamma)
And it felt like he had not posted in a while so I went back to see when he posted last and what happened.

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

And I didnt remember dave posting recently so I thought "hmm, I'm going to go back and check what has happened between 640 and the last time dave posted because that seems like a scummy "I'm not lurking" post to me. So I did... and while checking when he last posted I read Dave's ISO. It's mostly shading Keyleth, but not trying to start any pressure directly on her.

I think dave is slitherin' rn
VOTE: davesaz

First, while I get whatchu sayin, what exactly does davesaz gain from posting 640 as scum?

Second, I think the reason for making it as town is an attempt to diffuse a TvT. To me it looks like it worked, since Gamma is no longer voting me.

Additionally, I must emphasize that I believe that davesaz is town. I have read two of his scum games and he was extremely easy to spot as scum in both. He does not feel similar in this game.

Also Gamma feels like town here after that argument with BQ2. Could be TvT, but BQ2 is gimmicking so it's naturally harder to read his side of things

Like if he wasn't gimmicking I'm inclined to say that's TVT

How does my gimmicking affect your ability to read me? Can't you read through the gimmick?

Or differently put: what is town indicative about my play, and why is it not town indicative in light of having a gimmick?



As an aside, I dunno if you noticed but my pronouns are "they". So I would appreciate if you use them. Though I am aware that a certain type of users (colloquially known as "alt hunters") may derive immense pleasure from ascribing gender/sex characteristics to a broccoli. If you are one of them, please proceed with using "he".

[Black]

I don't think Celebloki has had a single post that wasn't about RN, which is more than a little suspicious.

VOTE: Celebloki

This is a better reason than the safe RVS vote stuff but it doesn't appear to be true. It's a little odd that you looked at Celebloki's ISO and came to this conclusion

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

[Black]

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

Nice plan, scum

[Black]

VOTE: Broccoli Quest 2

[davesaz]

I don't think Celebloki has had a single post that wasn't about RN, which is more than a little suspicious.

VOTE: Celebloki

This is a better reason than the safe RVS vote stuff but it doesn't appear to be true. It's a little odd that you looked at Celebloki's ISO and came to this conclusion

I did look fairly quickly (it's a work day) -- if I'm wrong please feel free to point something out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

So you're entire case on Celebloki is that you think his RVS vote was safe? I don't really think scum would be concerned over the optics of an RVS vote

Does anyone else have anything more substantial?

Yes, that it was safe on purpose. Nobody else has cased Celebloki I don't think. Guillo said his vote was for a different reason than mine so maybe he posted a reason somewhere, I feel like I read his reason and it didn't leave a lasting impression because I don't remember it. Mostly I remember being disappointed it was not for the reason I had not yet spoken

What is the scum motivation behind a safe RVS vote? I guess what I'm asking is do you think scum are paranoid about how their RVS votes look?

I think they

can

be, and less importantly, but still relevant: I think it's highly unlikely that town get paranoid about how their RVS vote looks outside of

extenuating

circumstances, like maybe if they're brand new to Mafia and the concept of RVS and are naturally an anxious person, or maybe if they just came off of being mislimmed because they E-1ed someone in RVS unknowingly, they're going to be more worried the next time around.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

just saw BQ2 is they and not he - sorry about that, I should have checked earlier when I was phoneposting.