Open 895 - 09:12 PM - Postgame

[Cook]

bloop

[gob]

Why were you voting me in the first place again gob?

I could see you as a nervous scum here. But i also dont want to lim someone who gets limmed often day 1.

[gob]

I am so sleepy @_@

[Cook]

i don't know what to make of this elements

i think she'll be easier to read later on

gob is too much of a loose cannon for me to gauge accurately

currently i'd vote him on policy

Policy in a 9p? Seems sus
VOTE: Cook

you're very flippant right now

i think this is weak reasoning though

[Black]

hmm... this is a very different elements than the last two games i saw them in

in TL's GI uPick they weren't as trollishly all over the place, especially considering their previous slot owner Not_Mafia was... well... trollishly all over the place.
and Cook's Kitchen Sink they were the deepwolf for the team if I read it as a mod correctly until she got guiltied

Does the fact that they are playing differently make you doubt your scumread on them a little?

[Elements]

@Kyouko

you read a bunch of my games, do I calm down when it's not day 1?

[Cook]

hmm... this is a very different elements than the last two games i saw them in

in TL's GI uPick they weren't as trollishly all over the place, especially considering their previous slot owner Not_Mafia was... well... trollishly all over the place.
and Cook's Kitchen Sink they were the deepwolf for the team if I read it as a mod correctly until she got guiltied

Does the fact that they are playing differently make you doubt your scumread on them a little?

objection, your honor, the question is leading

[Cook]

it's shitposty play

not sure why

[Cook]

it's shitposty play

not sure why elements is playing that way

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Kyouko

you read a bunch of my games, do I calm down when it's not day 1?

I read your ISO in a bunch of your games and did not pay too much attention to the transition between D1 and D2/onward because the mod was not included - generally though the vote hopping is NAI and I must assume if you kept it up into D2 you'd get limmed for it

[Black]

hmm... this is a very different elements than the last two games i saw them in

in TL's GI uPick they weren't as trollishly all over the place, especially considering their previous slot owner Not_Mafia was... well... trollishly all over the place.
and Cook's Kitchen Sink they were the deepwolf for the team if I read it as a mod correctly until she got guiltied

Does the fact that they are playing differently make you doubt your scumread on them a little?

objection, your honor, the question is leading

How is it leading? You said Elements is getting scummier with every post, then you say she's playing differently in this game than she did in a scum game, and finally your conclusion is that you don't know what to make of her. Is that correct?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i don't know what to make of this elements

i think she'll be easier to read later on

gob is too much of a loose cannon for me to gauge accurately

currently i'd vote him on policy

Policy in a 9p? Seems sus
VOTE: Cook

you're very flippant right now

i think this is weak reasoning though

I don't want to see a policy lim from you or from Clap - I'm not against them on principle, but in a 9p game that's just wasteful. I think Larges are the place for policy and even then it should only be the last resort.

[Black]

We're not policy limming anyone

[Cook]

not planning on policying — that was my expression of frustration at gob

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I guess speaking of it being an open setup, I'm not sure if everyone knows we just finished this setup and won in 2 Days, half of this playerlist was in that game, also modded by Alianna. I think it was mentioned in her /in to mod in open queue.

Anyways, we hypoclaimed as 2/4/8/10 roles on the clock due to Mafia Rolecop being repeated at 3/9, and due to being able to disguise some of the 1/5/7/11 claims as 2/4/8/10. I think in hindsight that it worked out well but it was mainly because we killed the Goon on D1 so we had 2 clears by the morning of D2.

It pretty quickly became apparent to me as VT with less info than scum, who one of the PRs was and fortunately due to the hypoclaims we were in a strong spot assuming I had identified the Vanilla Cop/Rolecop correctly. Turned out that I had, but I think in most cases the hypoclaiming is going to lead to the PRs being easier to find. Maybe if we D1 scum again it makes sense to hypoclaim again because of the possibility of POEing the last scum by way of innos, but short of killing scum D1 I don't think it's a good idea.

Any thoughts on this especially from those that were in the previous game and experienced the hypoclaims playing out? Doc & Drew (Gamma), gob, Elements, Mizuki? Technically shaddowes too but he replaced out of that game early on

[Mizuki]

I mean, I think you have a point in the PR's being easier to find, but also, the hypoclaims happen D2. The perfect scum game here is a 3-day game, and I think max is like 5? So I don't think the PR's being easier to find on D2 is really that much of a disaster. They ended up full-claiming on D2 last game anyways.

[Claptastik]

What is hypoclaiming?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Everyone makes a

hypo

thetical claim as to what their action/target/result is - allowing the real PRs to claim their actions/results within the rest of the hypoclaims to be used post-flip.

We were all supposed to claim as though we were one of the roles on 2/4/8/10 on the clock because they are adjacent to the 2 instances of Mafia Rolecop on 3 and 9. If we had an actual PR that was on 1/5/7/11, they were supposed to claim as though they were 2/4/8/10. For example a Vanilla Cop on 1 could have claimed a Rolecop result that corresponds to the Vanilla cop result they actually got. As it turned out we had the actual Roleblocker (Elements) on 8 claim as though they were a Jailkeeper on 5 which was surprising but it worked out just the same.

In theory it seemed like a good plan and it did work in that game because we hit scum D1 and ended up with 4 clears on D2 off of night actions, but I think in practice that more often than not it will lead to POEing/outing the real PRs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean, I think you have a point in the PR's being easier to find, but also, the hypoclaims happen D2. The perfect scum game here is a 3-day game, and I think max is like 5? So I don't think the PR's being easier to find on D2 is really that much of a disaster. They ended up full-claiming on D2 last game anyways.

Feels worth considering maybe.
VT lim>VT NK leaves 5:2 T:S, and 3:2 vanilla:PR within town on D2, if PRs are found on D2 they'll really only ever be NKed and not eliminated (as long as they aren't speedwagoned).
So D3 you would in worst case be at 3:2 ELO with a flipped PRs result that is not a clear, maybe sometimes it's a clear like if a Rolecop finds a doctor, but keep in mind that last game we killed the Goon D1 so when the Roleblocker and Rolecop claimed their actions we had 4 clears. If we hadn't killed a Goon on D1 both of those results would be meaningless.

I don't think hypoclaiming D2 is right unless we are very careful to claim something that makes sense with our reads (which I was not, and to be fair that was my mistake). Even then I'm not sure, I don't think it works out if we haven't hit scum on D1.

[Alianna]

1.04

Votecount 1.04

Elements (E-2): Cook, Claptastik, Elements
gob (2): shaddowez, Black
Cook (2): Mizuki, ssbm_Kyouko
Mizuki (1): Doc and Drew

Not Voting (1): gob

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-12-12 17:30:45).

[Elements]

VOTE: cook

[Mizuki]

I mean, I think you have a point in the PR's being easier to find, but also, the hypoclaims happen D2. The perfect scum game here is a 3-day game, and I think max is like 5? So I don't think the PR's being easier to find on D2 is really that much of a disaster. They ended up full-claiming on D2 last game anyways.

Feels worth considering maybe.
VT lim>VT NK leaves 5:2 T:S, and 3:2 vanilla:PR within town on D2, if PRs are found on D2 they'll really only ever be NKed and not eliminated (as long as they aren't speedwagoned).
So D3 you would in worst case be at 3:2 ELO with a flipped PRs result that is not a clear, maybe sometimes it's a clear like if a Rolecop finds a doctor, but keep in mind that last game we killed the Goon D1 so when the Roleblocker and Rolecop claimed their actions we had 4 clears. If we hadn't killed a Goon on D1 both of those results would be meaningless.

I don't think hypoclaiming D2 is right unless we are very careful to claim something that makes sense with our reads (which I was not, and to be fair that was my mistake). Even then I'm not sure, I don't think it works out if we haven't hit scum on D1.

Eh, fair enough. When I suggested it last game it was mostly as an off-the-cuff idea rather than something I had brainstormed zealously. I'm not a mechanical powerhouse by any means.

I get bad vibes about Claptastik's posting so far

VOTE: Claptastik

[gob]

I am preparing to hammer whoever gets to E-1 next.

You have all been warned.

I am town here but it actually doesn't matter whether town or mafia dies Day 1 statistically. (source: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29601)

So whoever gets to E-1, I'm killin.

[Black]

VOTE: Cook

e-1

[gob]

VOTE: Cook