Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also no bloops

[Dunnstral]

640 bothered me because it was so "mediator-ish" without really adding anything thoughtful. I think we could all see both sides, even if personally we would agree with Gamma or with BQ2: Electric Boogaloo. I don't think it's hard to see that Gamma felt the behavior was manipulative and also that BQ2 did not mean it in that way (or at least says he didn't, which feeds more into it feeling manipulative to Gamma)
And it felt like he had not posted in a while so I went back to see when he posted last and what happened.

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

And I didnt remember dave posting recently so I thought "hmm, I'm going to go back and check what has happened between 640 and the last time dave posted because that seems like a scummy "I'm not lurking" post to me. So I did... and while checking when he last posted I read Dave's ISO. It's mostly shading Keyleth, but not trying to start any pressure directly on her.

I think dave is slitherin' rn
VOTE: davesaz

No bloops

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I disapprove of anti-bloops too. No intentional pagetops.

Towny: ssbm_Kyouko, Black, Broccoli Quest 2, Elements, Gamma Emerald, Hu Tao, Guillotina, Keyleth, Random Nurse
Null: Cat Scratch Fever, Naerys, TimmerRC
Scummy: davesaz, Celebloki, Andresvmb, KawaiiKame

VOTE: Dunnstral

Are you openly voting for anyone who suspects you?

681 is weird because it's written out like an rvs vote but it seems clear you voted there because they suspected you.

[Gamma Emerald]

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

Nice plan, scum

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

[Gamma Emerald]

681 is weird because it's written out like an rvs vote but it seems clear you voted there because they suspected you.

I interpret 681 as again attempting the behavior via negative stimuli, which makes me question why dave expects it to work this time

[Gamma Emerald]

Attempting to correct behavior*
Sometimes my brain is faster than my mouth/hand so I skip words

[Keyleth]

WHy is it scummy to want to know people's reads?

For example I would have wanted to wagon CSF or Keyleth (just outta PoE, not due to anything especially scummy), but it feels like people are implicitly TRing them, and then I feel demotivated to do anything about it because people are like "nah" but there was no explicit consensus TR before that. If we have consensus TRs I can start a wagon which I know could get support.

I like this post because it feels sort of bold? It's openly a strategy I think can be exploited as a wolf and I kind of would expect this to be a bit more coy if it was coming from a wolf if that makes sense? Like, I see the world where a wolf posts this but I see more worlds where a villager does.

[Gamma Emerald]

Guillo Bam and Aid

What's that?

Very glad you asked.

The Guillo BAM and AID technique is the process in which everyone has to earn my townread every day as opposed to secretly giving you a score high enough to towncore you for the rest of the game based on your performance on a specific day.


Pros: Keeps the game dynamic
Removes the possibility of scum buddying me once to ride on my favor forever.
It catches deepwolves.
Makes me unpredictable and mafia cant plan around it.

Cons: Very difficult to build a towncore this way.
Builds a level of distrust amongst the actual town as it could be seen as scum keeping the PoE wide instead of narrowing it down.

I like this. I’m gonna use it myself in the future.
Btw what’s the meaning behind the name?

[Black]

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

[Keyleth]

black play here feels very analytical and logical, it's hard for me to wrap a read on that given I'm mostly the other way. Not that I haven't run into people like this but it's a 50/50 most of the time.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

[Keyleth]

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

[Black]

One thing I'm kinda upset about is CSF didn't say hi to me at all

I guess Team Mafia meant nothing to you?

[Black]

black play here feels very analytical and logical,

it's hard for me to wrap a read on that given I'm mostly the other way.

Not that I haven't run into people like this but it's a 50/50 most of the time.

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

Idk, this kinda feels analytical and logical to me

[Keyleth]

keyword in that sentence is mostly.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

black play here feels very analytical and logical,

it's hard for me to wrap a read on that given I'm mostly the other way.

Not that I haven't run into people like this but it's a 50/50 most of the time.

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

Idk, this kinda feels analytical and logical to me

actually same reaction get out of my head charles

[davesaz]

681 is weird because it's written out like an rvs vote

I'm slapping people who intentionally pagetop.

[davesaz]

This is at least the 3rd game I've done that since hiatus.

[Black]

keyword in that sentence is mostly.

That's fair lol

[Dunnstral]

681 is weird because it's written out like an rvs vote

I'm slapping people who intentionally pagetop.

This is at least the 3rd game I've done that since hiatus.

OK. So what made you vote for me?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

I’ve done similar as both alignments, so I can see either doing it. Broccoli’s reasoning matches my typical reasoning when I do these sorts of things as town, and developments earlier in the game also make it make sense more for town to do.

[davesaz]

OK. So what made you vote for me?

You're the next scumlean I wanted to vote.

[Dunnstral]

davesaz, do you remember 4 hours ago when you made this post?

Is there uh, anything I can do to help dave?

Quote things and say what you think about them would be a good start. More than just like or don't like. For me to evaluate your alignment (or anyone's) I need to know if what you say makes sense given the events, and that's pretty well impossible without a fair amount of because clauses.

In light of this post, do you think it is fair to say that you are not following your own standards for others as written above?

[Keyleth]

Feel free to answer this after your convo with dave Dunn but do you scumread them? I uh, don't really understand the point of that post.

[Dunnstral]

Towny: ssbm_Kyouko, Black, Broccoli Quest 2, Elements, Gamma Emerald, Hu Tao, Guillotina, Keyleth, Random Nurse
Null: Cat Scratch Fever, Naerys, TimmerRC
Scummy: davesaz, Celebloki, Andresvmb, KawaiiKame

[Keyleth]

My bad