open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[T3]

The random suggestion that me and OutWorldER are scum is weird.

I find it a little weird too but I don't see why scum!Black does this at all. What is scum!Black's endgame here? Pocketing me?

How is it weird if you said you thought it could be them too?

Never mind, for some reason I hallucinated you calling OWER/Titus a pair earlier than you actually did

[Black]

The random suggestion that me and OutWorldER are scum is weird.

I find it a little weird too but I don't see why scum!Black does this at all. What is scum!Black's endgame here? Pocketing me?

How is it weird if you said you thought it could be them too?

Never mind, for some reason I hallucinated you calling OWER/Titus a pair earlier than you actually did

Uh...what? It literally just happened? And how would the timing change the fact that you agreed with it?

You calling the read weird doesn't make sense in any context here

[OutWorldER]

That case is extremely weak-sauce and I think the T3/Black partner theory gains more merit by the post.

This makes no sense. If Black and I were partners we both could have gotten away with voting Skygazer and no one would have batted an eye. If I'm scum, why do I push Titus? And why does my partner, Black, feel the need to sheep my case on Titus when again, she could have just voted Skygazer and been done with it?

I don't know why, because I can't see inside your heads. All I know is that the way your case on Titus is extremely weak, and feels disingenuous, like you're making up reasons to scumread a player that is popularly TR'd (or at least not considered suspicious by the majority), and that Black's sudden sheeping of you after expressing that "T3 makes the most sense here" on the literal page before this one is incredibly suspicious.

Most of all, I think if either you or Black were town here you'd simply ask me what I disagreed with in the case, and try to sell me on a Titus wagon further. Instead, Black asks a loaded question and you dance around with WIFOM-y "Why would I do this" questions. It doesn't feel like either of you are actually trying to engage me genuinely and you're instead simply trying to divert pressure.

I am most definitely trying to engage with you genuinely! If anything you're being disingenuous and not engaging properly given that you don't provide reasons why you disagree with my case, you just make a blanket statement that it's weak and bad. Am I supposed to read your mind? The notion that neither of us asked you why you disagreed with the case is a complete misrep too - Black asked you why you think Titus is town. Sure, that question is a bit loaded, but is it not basically the same as Black asking you why you disagree with our case?

You can't read my mind, that's the whole reason I phrased my original post like that. I threw out a blanket statement because I wanted to see how you'd engage with me after the fact, and I found the way engaged with me to be scummy. I also was never asking you

to

read my mind; If somebody throws out a blanket statement like that, shouldn't first instinct to be to try and get them to elaborate? Neither of you did, and instead both of you started trying to steer the conversation in different directions.

It isn't a misrep because asking me if Titus is town is decidedly not the same as asking me what I felt was wrong in the case. Titus could be a ham sandwich and it would have no bearing at all as to why I thought your case against her was weak and scummy. If I scumread Titus, I'd still think that post was bad. Asking me "Why is Titus town?" is decidedly shifting the subject in that context, which is, again, what makes Black's question a loaded one. It inherently presumes that because I disagreed with your post that I have a townread on the person you were pushing. And as I said before, the presumption was true!
But it's still moving the goalposts on the conversation.

[Black]

It inherently presumes that because I disagreed with your post that I have a townread on the person you were pushing. And as I said before, the presumption was true!

I already thought you townread her based on you sheeping her though. I can agree with your point about that not necessarily meaning you do but it doesn't change the fact that I still had that feeling

[Titus]

The fact that neither of you asked me to justify the mystery player suggests you believed I was genuine all along (which I was).

[Black]

The fact that neither of you asked me to justify the mystery player suggests you believed I was genuine all along (which I was).

I wanted you to stop crumbing about the mystery player because it didn't make sense for you to do that according to your plan in 723

And yeah I townread your preflip stuff at first but I assumed you would start solving outside of that at some point. When you said you townread everyone except for your solve that's when I started to think you could be scum

[Black]

Also like...what? 10 townreads and 3 scumreads? No null? No leans? I know I lack conviction in a lot of my reads but this level of conviction is unbelievable to me

[JupiterXV]

only able to be on for a bit but titus can you tell me who u thought black was pocketing & why?

[Dannflor]

Black are you intentionally trying to play different than usual here

[Afrayed Knott]

Sorry for not posting, am reading now

[Afrayed Knott]

Hi Camel.

[Afrayed Knott]

hope you have a good nation formation commemoration celebration!

thank you

[Afrayed Knott]

I've been asking myself the same question - they could be AtE, but more of them do feel genuine than not. My problem is they have two votes on them, and seem to be lashing out about one particular item that only the two people currently voting them have even really brought up.

the two vote thing I didn't pick up, good spot,

[Afrayed Knott]

But I had already answered all the questions referenced in 289 but one

I got the impression you were flipping the bird with that video.

[Afrayed Knott]

I want to add to the conversation around my push on Black. I have a thought that she is scum based on how she played in a previous game, Open 888. She was scum in that game and her early posting style in that game felt very similar to her early posting style here. But I didn't jump on it immediately I sat back and watched, eventually asking her the question about her posting styles and also others in the game, that question is here 325 .


She responded and stated they were very similar, but it was the responses from both Dann and Bella that swayed me, Although I do acknowledge Bella’s follow up response at 375 . I will admit I was committed at that time. But it’s the way that Black states she is not worried and yet gets very defensive that was counter to my thoughts in a way. In that she was overly defensive and I agree with But I didn’t see and still see no reason to stop my belief. Then I read Aisa at 833 and it’s a good statement, I even went back and read this

Because your whole read is based on Open 888 and I didn't get defensive at all when being pushed as scum in that game. It doesn't feel like you are putting much thought into this read at all

Ok so yes Black wasn’t defensive, but what she forgets to comment on is that my read on her in Open 888 was as a double act with another player, who turned out to be town. The read was also not meta based and pretty much me believing that it was a case of an experienced player helping a scum partner from being limmed. When in actual fact it was a scum player helping a townie out, so is that termed as “pocketing” that townie?

The ensuing arguments were between me and that other player, not Black. So, it could be argued that she sat back and let that play itself out knowing it was TvT. She then subbed out of the game and was replaced by a very town looking Dann.

Bottom line, I am being focused on her as she is challenging my posts and so I respond to them.


I think Black is a good SR and should be the lim today.

[JupiterXV]

VOTE: t3
more later, busy rn

[Titus]

Black, it did make sense to crumb my read. I wanted to be trackable without alerting you of my read. You seemed oblivious which partially worked and now you are desperately shading me.

@outworlder, what is a ham sandwhich?

@Alfred, I don't disagree with you but T3 has more traction. What's your read there?

[Titus]

Titus being stubborn feels exactly like how it was when I played with her the two other times I did so. Granted both of those times were 3 years ago, so perhaps my meta is a bit out of date. But Titus's post ring to me more like tunneled/confident town rather than agenda-pushing maf.

Why did you wait until she was being pushed to share this read?

This reads like flail.

[Titus]

The fact that neither of you asked me to justify the mystery player suggests you believed I was genuine all along (which I was).

I wanted you to stop crumbing about the mystery player because it didn't make sense for you to do that according to your plan in 723

And yeah I townread your preflip stuff at first but I assumed you would start solving outside of that at some point. When you said you townread everyone except for your solve that's when I started to think you could be scum

This is definitely flail and definitely nonresponsive.

[Titus]

We have a little more than 1 day left. T3 is at L minus 2.

[camelCasedSnivy]

i voted t3 because of the comparison to booneytoonz, that sold it for me i think

[camelCasedSnivy]

wait what

[camelCasedSnivy]

i voted skygazer* because of the comparison to booneytoonz, that sold it for me i think

[Titus]

I don't see you voting T3 according to the last vc camel. Is it wrong? If it is, can you revote?

[Skygazer]

VOTE: T3