Large Normal 246: Game Over

[Black]

Also you kinda skirted around the kyouko question. You say you just feel like they're town. Can you dig deeper? What posts give you this feeling and why?

[Jingle]

Vote Count 1.17

ssbm_Kyouko

(E-3): gob, Black, Guillotina, TimmerRC, davesaz, Elements,

Hu Tao

(E-5): Broccoli Quest 2, ssbm_Kyouko, Celebloki, Gamma Emerald,

Celebloki

(E-8): Hu Tao,

gob

KawaiiKame

(E-8): Andresvmb

Andresvmb

(E-8): Naerys,

Naerys

(E-9):

Dunnstral

(E-9):

Broccoli Quest 2

(E-9):

davesaz

(E-9):

Guillotina

(E-9):

Keyleth

(E-9):

Elements

(E-9):

Random Nurse

(E-9):

Black

(E-9):

Gamma Emerald

(E-9):

gob

(E-9):

TimmerRC

(E-9):

Not Voting

: KawaiiKame, Random Nurse,

gob

With 17 alive it takes 9 to eject a player from the Game.

Deadline is (expired on 2023-12-07 23:00:00).

Mod Notes: Broccoli Quest 2 is V/LA until Friday.

[Jingle]

Prodding Dunnstral.

[Black]

I just read over Keyleth's entire ISO in Toriel's Patience and he doesn't defend his townreads like he's doing with kyouko this game. There's one instance of him maybe doing this in post #2791 but other than that, this is just not something town!Keyleth does. He's already defended kyouko multiple times

I think they're both just scum here

[gob]

hello black

[Black]

Hey gob

[gob]

im falling asleep at work

[Black]

Any thoughts on what I'm cooking up here?

[gob]

Any thoughts on what I'm cooking up here?

I havent read all of it but I don’t think its good practice to read 2 people as scum from 1 person’s meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Black + Gamma

Part of my SR on Hu Tao is based on the game that just finished.

That said, I should really sleep now.

I was going to mention that soon if no one else did.

Have we considered that the similarities are a result of both games running at the same time so when Hu posts she's in a similar mindset between them? So not really ai?

[Black]

Any thoughts on what I'm cooking up here?

I havent read all of it but I don’t think its good practice to read 2 people as scum from 1 person’s meta.

That's not what I'm doing at all lol. The meta thing was just a supporting argument. I scumread kyouko initially and then found Keyleth by association, then confirmed that Keyleth is playing different than he did as town

[Black]

She* sorry. I didn't check the pronouns until just now

[Gamma Emerald]

If you want to know why people scumread her then you can check who's voting for her and look through their ISO's. I looked through yours and saw a lot of subtle defending of her slot but no real read other than she feels like she did in a previous game you played, which is pretty weak

I'm not saying it like I haven't read people's posts, I have read people's posts and that's why I'm so confused on why people are wolfreading them because I do not see a lot of reasoning to begin wit

h. That's the problem. Not even something like gut pings. It just seems like people are following and that's fine if it is but can we like, say that's what it is!

I feel like I've pretty actively said I'm townreading the slot more than others due to my point system and while it may seem like a weak reason I just feel like they're town and the way people have played around the slot doesn't really make me change that so I'm sitting here asking for people to help me see it ya know?

This is like the worst thing you could have said around me, seems that you just told on yourself
VOTE: Kyouko
I think people are right about Kyouko and Key being scum together

[gob]

Where is davesaz? seems unusually quiet this game

[Black]

I think people are right about Kyouko and Key being scum together

It's just me lol

But yeah I think I'm right too

[gob]

I have a lot of energy now. What should I use it on?

[Black]

I have a lot of energy now. What should I use it on?

Figure out if kyouko is scum or not

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not but the votes will probably be telling and as a claimed Miller it might be better that I die sooner rather than later.

I don't think there's anything wrong with point #1 above. 17 players, 4 scum, leaves 12 targets for the NK after a mislim, 13 if we hit scum.

That's about a 9% chance of blocking the kill if the doc is unclaimed and doesnt get killed. This is negligible and if I were scum.i.would not be killing Hu Tao until her chances improved or until I was worried they would start blocking kills on the people I actually want to kill.

N2 after losing another town to a mislim that is an 11% chance of stopping the kill. N3 continues as 1/7 which is maybe 13.5% (estimate). By N4 there is a 20% chance, assuming mislims all along the way. This is the earliest I would ever consider shooting Hu Tao as scum as long as Hu Tao remains suspected

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you want to know why people scumread her then you can check who's voting for her and look through their ISO's. I looked through yours and saw a lot of subtle defending of her slot but no real read other than she feels like she did in a previous game you played, which is pretty weak

I'm not saying it like I haven't read people's posts, I have read people's posts and that's why I'm so confused on why people are wolfreading them because I do not see a lot of reasoning to begin wit

h. That's the problem. Not even something like gut pings. It just seems like people are following and that's fine if it is but can we like, say that's what it is!

I feel like I've pretty actively said I'm townreading the slot more than others due to my point system and while it may seem like a weak reason I just feel like they're town and the way people have played around the slot doesn't really make me change that so I'm sitting here asking for people to help me see it ya know?

This is like the worst thing you could have said around me, seems that you just told on yourself

VOTE: Kyouko
I think people are right about Kyouko and Key being scum together

This I'm pretty sure is scum!Gamma behavior, the overplayed righteousness. Gamma does have real righteous reactions but this is not one of them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That being "this is like the worst thing..." in bold

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I replaced into Toriel's patience and read the whole game, Keyleth feels about the same from TP where she was town

[Black]

viewtopic.php?t=91775
viewtopic.php?t=91800
Aside from a game where I can’t recall HT’s actual contributions at all, these are the towngames of hers I’ve been in

After looking these over it feels like Hu Tao sometimes gets a "flippant attitude" when being incorrectly scumread. I'm seeing it more in Mini Normal 2314 than the other game. I tend to act similarly so I can relate to this

I think we just let this slot live for now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait, three miller claims so far? I thought there were only two did I miss one?

Uninformed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I believe Hu Tao's claim and I think the people voting for her should probably find something else to do today

I believe in the standard concept that if someone claims a PR, especially a common one, and no one counterclaims them, that you don't lim then.

Which brings me to this:

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

I've never seen a post like this.

#1 contains both the nugget that a Town Doctor isn't important and suggests that it would be ok to mislim them because hey mafia would likely let them live to get mislimmed later. How is that town?

This on the surface feels likely to be coming from town btw, just because I disagree with the rebuttal of point 1 does not mean I think Timmer is scummy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I believe Hu Tao's claim and I think the people voting for her should probably find something else to do today

I believe in the standard concept that if someone claims a PR, especially a common one, and no one counterclaims them, that you don't lim then.

Which brings me to this:

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

I've never seen a post like this.

#1 contains both the nugget that a Town Doctor isn't important and suggests that it would be ok to mislim them because hey mafia would likely let them live to get mislimmed later. How is that town?

Yah I don't like the post either, it is a very suboptimal proposal and pretty much one at a level of openwolfing and agenda driven.

VOTE: Kyouko

This is maybe scummy, it's too reductive for Guillo I think. He's not this simple and I think he sees an easy target.

By reductive I mean, he's just sheeping on Timmer's opinion and throwing out a couple of buzzwords to back it up. I think looking at the whole of my play it should be clear what my alignment is, and I think Guillo is conveniently overlooking that. I know he's paying attention, at least he should be with his activity level.