Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

black play here feels very analytical and logical,

it's hard for me to wrap a read on that given I'm mostly the other way.

Not that I haven't run into people like this but it's a 50/50 most of the time.

Do you think the plan is scummy or are there other reasons you SR BQ?

I just typically scumread plans like this. It always reads as an attempt to get a bunch of information out on the table in order to make the optimal NK's and night targets. I think it could come from town though so it's just meh

You said the plan was "interesting" ...what does that mean? Do you think it's scummy or nah?

I don’t think it’s scummy in isolation; with additional context it could be. But in this instance I think it’s a town move.

Really? I've seen that plan executed by wolves before, at least if you put the plan into action given you're asking for support on a wagon and who are the top towns. I think it's a net positive for wolves, while for town it depends on the first hit. So in isolation you can see how the post is sort of wolfy.

However, with the added context with how Broccoli is playing I'm more inclined to believe it's in good faith. Maybe I wouldn't feel this way if I wasn't nodding along with their previous posts but yeah.

Idk, this kinda feels analytical and logical to me

actually same reaction get out of my head charles

I was ctrl+F'ing my ISO for Gamma to see if past me had any insightful commentary on her alignment and saw this. I also saw my intial gripes with Dave were for shading Keyleth without pressuring there and I'd be happy to see Keyleth flip scum just to be able to push that dave was distancing. Would like to see dave put his money where his mouth is (was?) and join this

VOTE: Keyleth

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think both dave and Gamma make sense as partners to Keyleth

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My preference is Gamma > dave >= Keyleth - I think the wagon on me and the ensuing scramble helped clarify things.

@Guillo are you around?

[Black]

Gob would you mind telling Kyouoko how i always respond to people who refuse to give reasons?

I have a different meta approach to use on Gamma but can't do it mobile. Maybe later.

Keyleth would be acceptable. I still think Hu Tao is scum but willing to see if she resolves.

Let's go Dave

[Celebloki]

I certainly haven't been playing as a shining paragon of town, so I don't really begrudge those that have been throwing shade at me too much. I have a bit of a OMGUS bias against Timmer, but idk if I find that scummy or just hypocritical.

I see the logic of the Keyleth wagon, but want to read that a bit more. Keyleth is a slot I haven't paid a ton of attention to thus far. I will say that there is another reason I am dubious of Hu Tao's claim, the way she dissolved her wagon, and questions I've posed but I don't want to divulge any further why that is. If she's not to be I'll go ahead and unvote.

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

Most of these people aren't catching current heat, but I am not interested in joining a wagon on Kyouko, Dunn, Guillo, RN, or Naerys. I don't necessarily TR all of these, but I don't think voting them off today is optimal.

[Gamma Emerald]

so far I'm 2 for 2 at identifying the righteousness as town when it is town, yet to find a scumgame with righteousness

please post the links of all game’s you’re searching within

Notes so far:
micro 1094 - town - no righteousness
2318 - town - when she gets in it with Roden over some modifier or something and requotes her signature to Roden a couple of times, and other posts around it, it's clear to me Gamma is town
mini 2315 - town righteousness in smiting that one person who allegedly answered questions quoting buddies from their PT, not scrolling back up to see who it was
defcon - I think this is town but am a little sus (harder to say because I think Gamma and Marci are actually friends and if anything righteousness here is NAI) - when seeing reaction to scum!Marci I think Gamma is town

You do realize I have barely rolled scum recently, right? So if you’re just looking at games this past year, you’re gonna have a horrendously cherry-picked sample

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm torn between trusting kyouko and voting Gamma and trusting Gamma and voting Keyleth

Someone help

The thing is I only think Key is scum if Kyouko is scum because the thing I latched onto is something I consider a partner tell
VOTE: TimmerRC
How about this instead?

I just find Key's defense of kyouko a bit odd. Like I said she didn't defend her townreads at all in her last game. I'm getting informed vibes there

What is your read on Timmer?

I find Timmer pretty shady, notably some of his posting regarding the claim doesn’t sit well with me

Some of his posting? Show me.

Maybe later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

gonna break briefly from reading Gamma ego because I see Guillo responded

I'm here and haven't found the Guillo response wtf happened

Response to what?

Spoiler: 1211

I believe Hu Tao's claim and I think the people voting for her should probably find something else to do today

I believe in the standard concept that if someone claims a PR, especially a common one, and no one counterclaims them, that you don't lim then.

Which brings me to this:

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

I've never seen a post like this.

#1 contains both the nugget that a Town Doctor isn't important and suggests that it would be ok to mislim them because hey mafia would likely let them live to get mislimmed later. How is that town?

Yah I don't like the post either, it is a very suboptimal proposal and pretty much one at a level of openwolfing and agenda driven.

VOTE: Kyouko

This is maybe scummy, it's too reductive for Guillo I think. He's not this simple and I think he sees an easy target.

By reductive I mean, he's just sheeping on Timmer's opinion and throwing out a couple of buzzwords to back it up. I think looking at the whole of my play it should be clear what my alignment is, and I think Guillo is conveniently overlooking that. I know he's paying attention, at least he should be with his activity level.

Nope, when you posted that I felt a stomachache because you were in my townreads and I dont expect my townreads to say that is optimal to still

lim

a claimed doctor instead of letting it resolve at night. That is why I posted that we should do just that, to overrule you and take away from you any hope of yeeting Hu Tao there and then I waited and revisited an old hunch i had about you and the i voted you cause I really hated your post.

Out of game: We don't use the L-word on site anymore, edited in the quote

What's the old hunch you had on me that you revisited? Do you disagree with my assessment of a doctor's effectiveness in a 16, 14, 12-player Night phase assuming 4 scum alive (which is when the doctor would be most effective at blocking a kill, the denominator increases if we hit scum before one of the nights).

Speaking to everyone, not just Guillotina here - I think it is

convenient

, not

optimal

, to not lim Hu Tao here, because people are trained to let PR claims live. I think the reflex is to let them live, but if you actually think about it is easy to see that a doctor is not very useful for town here. We haven't even considered yet Hu Tao could just be a mafia doctor here, and they would be very useful to scum if there are any vigilantes about.

I'm reminded of mafia doctors after seeing I was one in one of the games I linked

Both of the bolded questions. I thought I saw Hu Tao quoted a post where you responded to this but it seems I was mistaken about what was inside of the post Hu Tao quoted - it looked like a response to 1211 but it seems that it wasn't

[Gamma Emerald]

mini 2315 - town righteousness in smiting that one person who allegedly answered questions quoting buddies from their PT, not scrolling back up to see who it was

Please go into this one more

[Gamma Emerald]

Gob feels town

Mmmmm
You feel way off-base recently

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma
I think I've heard Keyleth's name thrown around, willing to go there as well

I’ll go on Key towards the deadline but don’t feel like that will flip scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

so far I'm 2 for 2 at identifying the righteousness as town when it is town, yet to find a scumgame with righteousness

please post the links of all game’s you’re searching within

Notes so far:
micro 1094 - town - no righteousness
2318 - town - when she gets in it with Roden over some modifier or something and requotes her signature to Roden a couple of times, and other posts around it, it's clear to me Gamma is town
mini 2315 - town righteousness in smiting that one person who allegedly answered questions quoting buddies from their PT, not scrolling back up to see who it was
defcon - I think this is town but am a little sus (harder to say because I think Gamma and Marci are actually friends and if anything righteousness here is NAI) - when seeing reaction to scum!Marci I think Gamma is town

You do realize I have barely rolled scum recently, right? So if you’re just looking at games this past year, you’re gonna have a horrendously cherry-picked sample

I find it hard to believe you would find a chronologically ordered metadive to be "cherry-picked" - that is an unusual choice of words because it implies I selected the games myself, especially after this:

I have autism so being vague will cause me headaches. Please be more exact with your wording.

Holding this post for after you catch-up to Mafia have a Cop to see if you walk-back the allegation that I'm cherry-picking.
Looks like you didn't

[Black]

Gob feels town

Mmmmm
You feel way off-base recently

Do you disagree with the read?

What is the benefit of scum!me saying this when I could just let the gob wagon happen? Unless you think I'm scum with gob?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mini 2315 - town righteousness in smiting that one person who allegedly answered questions quoting buddies from their PT, not scrolling back up to see who it was

Please go into this one more

will do this now, that's what I wrote on my notes - you got smitey on them earlyish in the ISO and I was like yeah thats probably town, but I kept reading to see if there was more. I got like 3/4 of the way down the page and didn't see it continuing but I wasn't paying attention to names, so I wrote that in my notes and then checked your alignment

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Actually can't do it now now, time to pick my kid up. Can do it on my phone though I think

[Gamma Emerald]

so far I'm 2 for 2 at identifying the righteousness as town when it is town, yet to find a scumgame with righteousness

please post the links of all game’s you’re searching within

Notes so far:
micro 1094 - town - no righteousness
2318 - town - when she gets in it with Roden over some modifier or something and requotes her signature to Roden a couple of times, and other posts around it, it's clear to me Gamma is town
mini 2315 - town righteousness in smiting that one person who allegedly answered questions quoting buddies from their PT, not scrolling back up to see who it was
defcon - I think this is town but am a little sus (harder to say because I think Gamma and Marci are actually friends and if anything righteousness here is NAI) - when seeing reaction to scum!Marci I think Gamma is town

You do realize I have barely rolled scum recently, right? So if you’re just looking at games this past year, you’re gonna have a horrendously cherry-picked sample

I find it hard to believe you would find a chronologically ordered metadive to be "cherry-picked" - that is an unusual choice of words because it implies I selected the games myself, especially after this:

I have autism so being vague will cause me headaches. Please be more exact with your wording.

Holding this post for after you catch-up to Mafia have a Cop to see if you walk-back the allegation that I'm cherry-picking.
Looks like you didn't

I misremembered having mentioned it in a game with you previously
I didn’t mean it that you intentionally cherry-picked as part of an agenda, I just meant a sample of only more recent games was a bad selection and I’m not the best with words

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw I can provide at least one game where I showed realistic righteousness as scum but I want to see how you interpret it yourself
Try looking at games that ran in the latter half of 2021

[ssbm_Kyouko]

-Snip-

I misremembered having mentioned it in a game with you previously
I didn’t mean it that you intentionally cherry-picked as part of an agenda, I just meant a sample of only more recent games was a bad selection and I’m not the best with words

Like you thought you

had

mentioned it to me before that you haven't rolled scum in like a year?

I should have time to continue looking tomorrow before deadline, I would like to find the game without a link so I don't know what I'm looking for. If the wagon swaps from Keyleth to you before deadline I'll just need a link/game name anyways though. Going to look at 1315 on my phone now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh 2315

[Black]

I feel worse about Gamma the more she posts and I think she makes sense as a Key partner

Kyouko I feel pretty good about atm

[Black]

I would be fine with a Key or Gamma wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like start reading at 731. The person you go righteous on is "A Frayed Knot"
Mini 2315 Gamma ISO: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=91827&user_select%5B%5D=28404
posts 731, 732, 744, 747. I've skimmed down to 1482 now and I definitely stopped earlier than this earlier on my PC

[Gamma Emerald]

-Snip-

I misremembered having mentioned it in a game with you previously
I didn’t mean it that you intentionally cherry-picked as part of an agenda, I just meant a sample of only more recent games was a bad selection and I’m not the best with words

Like you thought you

had

mentioned it to me before that you haven't rolled scum in like a year?

I should have time to continue looking tomorrow before deadline, I would like to find the game without a link so I don't know what I'm looking for. If the wagon swaps from Keyleth to you before deadline I'll just need a link/game name anyways though. Going to look at 1315 on my phone now

I didn’t post a link, I just gave a timeframe
If that’s too much help then I don’t know how the fuck I can please you here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

-Snip-

I misremembered having mentioned it in a game with you previously
I didn’t mean it that you intentionally cherry-picked as part of an agenda, I just meant a sample of only more recent games was a bad selection and I’m not the best with words

Like you thought you

had

mentioned it to me before that you haven't rolled scum in like a year?

I should have time to continue looking tomorrow before deadline, I would like to find the game without a link so I don't know what I'm looking for. If the wagon swaps from Keyleth to you before deadline I'll just need a link/game name anyways though. Going to look at 1315 on my phone now

I didn’t post a link, I just gave a timeframe
If that’s too much help then I don’t know how the fuck I can please you here

Yeah I know, what I'm trying to say is, I don't have time to look at more games right now, I'll look at that timeframe tomorrow morning, which will be before deadline. I also want to find it without a link, I would prefer that, but I'm saying that if the wagon on you ends up going off before tomorrow morning, I would rather just have the link. Because if the link will make me rethink your scum/townrange I will want as much time as possible to wagon elsewhere if my read on you shifts.

[Gamma Emerald]

This is not a great situation to be in when I am having a borderline mental breakdown from work already