Open 895 - 09:12 PM - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.10

Votecount 1.10

Claptastik (E-2): Mizuki, shaddowez, Doc and Drew
Doc and Drew (E-2): Elements, Claptastik, Black
ssbm_Kyouko (1): gob
Elements (1): Cook
Black (1): ssbm_Kyouko

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-12-12 17:30:45).

[gob]

Can i just get a free pass on explaining myself this game? I'm town and I think my unwillingness to engage with people on their own terms should show that.

I think we go Mizuki here. Claptastik is very towny, frankly the wagon on Claptastik stinks. Mizuki and Shaddowez are both possibly mafia. Doc and rew could be but like i said before, if they are they are prone to spewing so its final to keep them alive.

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

[Black]

Ugh, I will fuck this up more and more, our lim really is for the best

*Doc obviously

Why do you think this?

We're not doing the hydra sorry guys. I think Mizuki is a valid option

Out of everyone, why them?

VOTE: kyouko

After looking over things I think this is probably the most likely to flip scum

Outside of her mech talk and associative argument with gob/cook, there isn't much substance here. I think it's really easy for scum to just rely on discussing mech and wild theories like 211 and 221. I just don't think this read makes a lot of sense. Cook and gob can be scum individually without the other being scum and the fact that kyouko honed in on this kinda seems like busy work to me. It makes me think she knows they're town

Definitely shady you omitted the context of 211 and 221, kinda makes me think you forgot what it was and were looking to divert gob's attention. I'm guessing you opened my ISO and picked something you could latch on to out of it, and this is the first thing you found

With context (see quotes below), you first ask me how sure I am about town!Cook in 210 after I laid out the many problems with Cook's readslist (@Cook, still want an update on that). In 211 I'm answering your question concisely, because I am sure of it after reading the fake hammer situation, with the caveat that it could have been faked if Cook and gob are partnered, but

that is very unlikely

. I think 213 just doesn't want town to find each other here, and 221 is just my response to your attempt to break those TRs down. I think you're getting worried because a lot of people are coming around to Cook and gob being town. 221 is not a wild theory, I just laid out the possible configurations and explained how I got to the conclusion in 211.

I was willing to accept you just weren't ready to buy that Cook couldn't have faked her reaction on the fly, but I think it's more than that. You're worried the possible mislims are closing around you too early since Cook is almost certainly cleared from that, and all without PR claims.

VOTE: Black

Spoiler: quotes

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

Is this traditionally ordered, like in tiers of town down to scum?

nope, it's reverse ordered

gob can be town though

Could you take me through some of these reads then? Pretty sure you're town here from the fake hammer, but a lot of this doesn't make sense.

Elements I seem to remember you stating was a soul read; i have no idea why you read me as scum. Black i can see because she E-1ed you after gob claimed he would hammer any E-1s but is that the only reason or is there more to it?

Gob is one read that does make sense to me (after you moved him to town), as does claptastik, but speaking of null for lack of activity, why is shaddowez in your top town considering his activity?

Is the Mizuki read due to her reaction to your fake hammer or is there more to that too? And what about Doc and Drew? I don't remember you talking with/about them and they're literally not in your ISO at all, except where you say they're town. Looking at their ISO with yours you three haven't interacted at all.

Also happy scumday

How sure are you about town!Cook? It feels like you're questioning the reads in a way that suggests you don't believe they are real

No way is Cook scum unless gob is also scum imo.

I don't understand this. Why couldn't Cook be scum here that realized she wasn't hammered and played it off like she was? Why is she only scum if gob is scum?

I don't believe she realized she wasn't hammered, her reaction seems very real. It could have been pre-planned to

appear

real, and if so I'm fooled, but it would be pretty dumb of scumteam!{gob,Cook} to make this play, even if it is convincing now it falls apart later.

I guess it's conceivable that Cook can be scum with you since you set up the fake E-1 but I think you didn't know it was a fake E-1. I say she's only scum if gob is scum because if her reaction is faked it was planned ahead, and the only ones who she could plan it ahead with were you and gob. Initially I thought it could only have been gob.

If it is scum!gob, it only makes sense if he and Cook have planned this ahead of time as buddies, and even then it's incredibly risky. What happens if gob and Cook are still alive in 5p ELO as scum? Imo the paranoia really sinks in at this point and if one of them flips, the other is likely to be highly suspected and could possibly be guiltied overNight depending on the PRs. This just doesn't make sense.

If gob is scum and Cook is town, why does he fake hammer her here? It just gives her the opportunity to have a town reaction and clears her. What's the scum motivation there? Doesn't make sense, therefore if gob is scum, it's only with Cook. Cook could be scum with you here though, but again, I think Cook's reaction is real.

Didn't get back to this until today and have to catch up, but I love that my entire ISO of 1 post so far is being used for something.

it will make sense when you catch up

Why are people seeing scum in Black?

-Doc

I think she made it somewhat clear, and so did gob

Are you trying to pocket me Drew

[Black]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

[gob]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

[Black]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

No

[Doc and Drew]

Ugh, I will fuck this up more and more, our lim really is for the best

*Doc obviously

Why do you think this?

We're not doing the hydra sorry guys. I think Mizuki is a valid option

Out of everyone, why them?

VOTE: kyouko

After looking over things I think this is probably the most likely to flip scum

Outside of her mech talk and associative argument with gob/cook, there isn't much substance here. I think it's really easy for scum to just rely on discussing mech and wild theories like 211 and 221. I just don't think this read makes a lot of sense. Cook and gob can be scum individually without the other being scum and the fact that kyouko honed in on this kinda seems like busy work to me. It makes me think she knows they're town

Definitely shady you omitted the context of 211 and 221, kinda makes me think you forgot what it was and were looking to divert gob's attention. I'm guessing you opened my ISO and picked something you could latch on to out of it, and this is the first thing you found

With context (see quotes below), you first ask me how sure I am about town!Cook in 210 after I laid out the many problems with Cook's readslist (@Cook, still want an update on that). In 211 I'm answering your question concisely, because I am sure of it after reading the fake hammer situation, with the caveat that it could have been faked if Cook and gob are partnered, but

that is very unlikely

. I think 213 just doesn't want town to find each other here, and 221 is just my response to your attempt to break those TRs down. I think you're getting worried because a lot of people are coming around to Cook and gob being town. 221 is not a wild theory, I just laid out the possible configurations and explained how I got to the conclusion in 211.

I was willing to accept you just weren't ready to buy that Cook couldn't have faked her reaction on the fly, but I think it's more than that. You're worried the possible mislims are closing around you too early since Cook is almost certainly cleared from that, and all without PR claims.

VOTE: Black

Spoiler: quotes

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

Is this traditionally ordered, like in tiers of town down to scum?

nope, it's reverse ordered

gob can be town though

Could you take me through some of these reads then? Pretty sure you're town here from the fake hammer, but a lot of this doesn't make sense.

Elements I seem to remember you stating was a soul read; i have no idea why you read me as scum. Black i can see because she E-1ed you after gob claimed he would hammer any E-1s but is that the only reason or is there more to it?

Gob is one read that does make sense to me (after you moved him to town), as does claptastik, but speaking of null for lack of activity, why is shaddowez in your top town considering his activity?

Is the Mizuki read due to her reaction to your fake hammer or is there more to that too? And what about Doc and Drew? I don't remember you talking with/about them and they're literally not in your ISO at all, except where you say they're town. Looking at their ISO with yours you three haven't interacted at all.

Also happy scumday

How sure are you about town!Cook? It feels like you're questioning the reads in a way that suggests you don't believe they are real

No way is Cook scum unless gob is also scum imo.

I don't understand this. Why couldn't Cook be scum here that realized she wasn't hammered and played it off like she was? Why is she only scum if gob is scum?

I don't believe she realized she wasn't hammered, her reaction seems very real. It could have been pre-planned to

appear

real, and if so I'm fooled, but it would be pretty dumb of scumteam!{gob,Cook} to make this play, even if it is convincing now it falls apart later.

I guess it's conceivable that Cook can be scum with you since you set up the fake E-1 but I think you didn't know it was a fake E-1. I say she's only scum if gob is scum because if her reaction is faked it was planned ahead, and the only ones who she could plan it ahead with were you and gob. Initially I thought it could only have been gob.

If it is scum!gob, it only makes sense if he and Cook have planned this ahead of time as buddies, and even then it's incredibly risky. What happens if gob and Cook are still alive in 5p ELO as scum? Imo the paranoia really sinks in at this point and if one of them flips, the other is likely to be highly suspected and could possibly be guiltied overNight depending on the PRs. This just doesn't make sense.

If gob is scum and Cook is town, why does he fake hammer her here? It just gives her the opportunity to have a town reaction and clears her. What's the scum motivation there? Doesn't make sense, therefore if gob is scum, it's only with Cook. Cook could be scum with you here though, but again, I think Cook's reaction is real.

Didn't get back to this until today and have to catch up, but I love that my entire ISO of 1 post so far is being used for something.

it will make sense when you catch up

Why are people seeing scum in Black?

-Doc

I think she made it somewhat clear, and so did gob

Are you trying to pocket me Drew

No, and I guess it was a rhetorical question.....I just don't see scum motivation in your posting.

And saying my lim was for the best was clearly a joke lol

-Doc(back on track signing my posts)

[Black]

And saying my lim was for the best was clearly a joke lol

I figured but I still wanted to know what prompted the thought

[Doc and Drew]

And saying my lim was for the best was clearly a joke lol

I figured but I still wanted to know what prompted the thought

Oh, because I didn't sign my post as me the post before the one you quoted.

-Doc

[Black]

Oh

[gob]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

No

Why not? You seem to townread me. And frankly I think I'm more confident on my reads than you here.

[Black]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

No

Why not? You seem to townread me. And frankly I think I'm more confident on my reads than you here.

Your biggest townread is pushing Doc and Drew, and I think you still townread me a little. How does that make you feel?

[gob]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

No

Why not? You seem to townread me. And frankly I think I'm more confident on my reads than you here.

Your biggest townread is pushing Doc and Drew, and I think you still townread me a little. How does that make you feel?

Well first off I don't find Doc and Drew to be particularly scummy. Haven't really read closely of them either.

However I think fundamentally it's silly to lim the hydra here. In a situation like this, the hydra is actually at a big disadvantage if they're scum. You can say "oh but they're scummy lets get em anyway" but that is really not the best way to go about things. I'm all about doing things as optimal as possible, and here limming the hydra, even if they are mafia, is not optimal.

If you want something less mechanical and more concrete about the game, then I think Gamma Emerald herself is prone to spewing as scum. So if she and Drew are mafia, then I think she spews either her partner drew or her other mafia partner.

But the main thing is, it's fundamentally not the right move to lim a Hydra day 1 since you always get double info on all interactions once that slot finally dies.

[Black]

I'm all about doing things as optimal as possible, and here

limming the hydra, even if they are mafia, is not optimal.

This is not a townie thought

[Black]

Well first off I don't find Doc and Drew to be particularly scummy. Haven't really read closely of them either.

I thought you didn't have a read on them?

Maybe you should read closer and if you can prove that they're townie I'll reconsider

[Doc and Drew]

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

I don't really want any of these options

Well I do. So, you gonna compromise or what

No

Why not? You seem to townread me. And frankly I think I'm more confident on my reads than you here.

Your biggest townread is pushing Doc and Drew, and I think you still townread me a little. How does that make you feel?

Well first off I don't find Doc and Drew to be particularly scummy. Haven't really read closely of them either.

However I think fundamentally it's silly to lim the hydra here. In a situation like this, the hydra is actually at a big disadvantage if they're scum. You can say "oh but they're scummy lets get em anyway" but that is really not the best way to go about things. I'm all about doing things as optimal as possible, and here limming the hydra, even if they are mafia, is not optimal.

If you want something less mechanical and more concrete about the game, then I think Gamma Emerald herself is prone to spewing as scum. So if she and Drew are mafia, then I think she spews either her partner drew or her other mafia partner.

But the main thing is, it's fundamentally not the right move to lim a Hydra day 1 since you always get double info on all interactions once that slot finally dies.

1. Thank you for the town read
2. I know you kinda explained it here, but hydra or not shouldn't matter to who you want as the lim, on any day
3. How much experience do you have with Gamma? And haven't you noticed that she has barely posted in this hydra?

Can you read me well?

-Doc

[gob]

I'm all about doing things as optimal as possible, and here

limming the hydra, even if they are mafia, is not optimal.

This is not a townie thought

It is tho, and it's not like the logic is that hard to follow. You can disagree with it, but it's argument about how best to play the game.

Well first off I don't find Doc and Drew to be particularly scummy. Haven't really read closely of them either.

I thought you didn't have a read on them?

Maybe you should read closer and if you can prove that they're townie I'll reconsider

I'm not proving anything. If you guys want to lim Drew and Doc, I won't stand in the way. I really don't care who dies today, makes no difference to me. But I just prefer not to lim a hydra since it isn't optimal.

But again, I can win even if things don't go perfectly here. So I'm good either way.

[gob]

No i cant really read you drew. You always seem scummy to me basically.

[Claptastik]

Can i just get a free pass on explaining myself this game? I'm town and I think my unwillingness to engage with people on their own terms should show that.

I think we go Mizuki here. Claptastik is very towny, frankly the wagon on Claptastik stinks. Mizuki and Shaddowez are both possibly mafia. Doc and rew could be but like i said before, if they are they are prone to spewing so its final to keep them alive.

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

Why the change on shaddowez?

[gob]

Can i just get a free pass on explaining myself this game? I'm town and I think my unwillingness to engage with people on their own terms should show that.

I think we go Mizuki here. Claptastik is very towny, frankly the wagon on Claptastik stinks. Mizuki and Shaddowez are both possibly mafia. Doc and rew could be but like i said before, if they are they are prone to spewing so its final to keep them alive.

I would go Mizuki, Shaddowez, and kyouko. Kyouko being more reserved than usual and being on Black here feels odd to me.

Why the change on shaddowez?

Just PoE. He also hasn't started posting really.

[Mizuki]

I'm steadily running out of time to actually play with holidays approaching and might have to go VLA soon. Making time where I can.

UNVOTE:

Broad strokes thoughts that Claptastik's posting has improved steadily over the last few pages and his most recent posts regarding the wagons read as a very townie thought process. I maintain my tr on Kyouko and I'm liking Black too.

gob's hypothesis on limming the hydra I think makes sense in a 3+ scum game but doesn't work in a 2-scum game. I think the defense overall is townie though, I don't get a sense of trying to deflect pressure off a partner. I'm frustrated with his push on me, mostly because we haven't actually engaged each other at all, but I suppose that's mostly on me for being inactive.

@Elements, what was the point of your revote in 342? You were already voting the hydra. It actually feels kinda scummy to me there after Clap switched votes and Black expressed interest in voting D&D.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko do you not like either of the current wagons?

I don't like the Clap wagon, and I don't mind the D&D wagon. Gamma hasn't really posted much and I'm going to have an easier time reading her than Drew.

What are your reads like? I feel like last game it was possible to follow what you were thinking, and here you're back to your usual D1 self voting just about everywhere.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We're not doing the hydra sorry guys. I think Mizuki is a valid option

Out of everyone, why them?

VOTE: kyouko

After looking over things I think this is probably the most likely to flip scum

Outside of her mech talk and associative argument with gob/cook, there isn't much substance here. I think it's really easy for scum to just rely on discussing mech and wild theories like 211 and 221. I just don't think this read makes a lot of sense. Cook and gob can be scum individually without the other being scum and the fact that kyouko honed in on this kinda seems like busy work to me. It makes me think she knows they're town

Definitely shady you omitted the context of 211 and 221, kinda makes me think you forgot what it was and were looking to divert gob's attention. I'm guessing you opened my ISO and picked something you could latch on to out of it, and this is the first thing you found

With context (see quotes below), you first ask me how sure I am about town!Cook in 210 after I laid out the many problems with Cook's readslist (@Cook, still want an update on that). In 211 I'm answering your question concisely, because I am sure of it after reading the fake hammer situation, with the caveat that it could have been faked if Cook and gob are partnered, but

that is very unlikely

. I think 213 just doesn't want town to find each other here, and 221 is just my response to your attempt to break those TRs down. I think you're getting worried because a lot of people are coming around to Cook and gob being town. 221 is not a wild theory, I just laid out the possible configurations and explained how I got to the conclusion in 211.

I was willing to accept you just weren't ready to buy that Cook couldn't have faked her reaction on the fly, but I think it's more than that. You're worried the possible mislims are closing around you too early since Cook is almost certainly cleared from that, and all without PR claims.

VOTE: Black

Spoiler: quotes

ssbm/black is my strongest pairing right now but i'm willing to be wrong there

think i'd sort like
{ssbm_kyouko, black}
{elements, gob}
{claptastik} is null for lack of activity
{mizuki}
{shaddowez, doc and drew}

Is this traditionally ordered, like in tiers of town down to scum?

nope, it's reverse ordered

gob can be town though

Could you take me through some of these reads then? Pretty sure you're town here from the fake hammer, but a lot of this doesn't make sense.

Elements I seem to remember you stating was a soul read; i have no idea why you read me as scum. Black i can see because she E-1ed you after gob claimed he would hammer any E-1s but is that the only reason or is there more to it?

Gob is one read that does make sense to me (after you moved him to town), as does claptastik, but speaking of null for lack of activity, why is shaddowez in your top town considering his activity?

Is the Mizuki read due to her reaction to your fake hammer or is there more to that too? And what about Doc and Drew? I don't remember you talking with/about them and they're literally not in your ISO at all, except where you say they're town. Looking at their ISO with yours you three haven't interacted at all.

Also happy scumday

How sure are you about town!Cook? It feels like you're questioning the reads in a way that suggests you don't believe they are real

No way is Cook scum unless gob is also scum imo.

I don't understand this. Why couldn't Cook be scum here that realized she wasn't hammered and played it off like she was? Why is she only scum if gob is scum?

I don't believe she realized she wasn't hammered, her reaction seems very real. It could have been pre-planned to

appear

real, and if so I'm fooled, but it would be pretty dumb of scumteam!{gob,Cook} to make this play, even if it is convincing now it falls apart later.

I guess it's conceivable that Cook can be scum with you since you set up the fake E-1 but I think you didn't know it was a fake E-1. I say she's only scum if gob is scum because if her reaction is faked it was planned ahead, and the only ones who she could plan it ahead with were you and gob. Initially I thought it could only have been gob.

If it is scum!gob, it only makes sense if he and Cook have planned this ahead of time as buddies, and even then it's incredibly risky. What happens if gob and Cook are still alive in 5p ELO as scum? Imo the paranoia really sinks in at this point and if one of them flips, the other is likely to be highly suspected and could possibly be guiltied overNight depending on the PRs. This just doesn't make sense.

If gob is scum and Cook is town, why does he fake hammer her here? It just gives her the opportunity to have a town reaction and clears her. What's the scum motivation there? Doesn't make sense, therefore if gob is scum, it's only with Cook. Cook could be scum with you here though, but again, I think Cook's reaction is real.

Didn't get back to this until today and have to catch up, but I love that my entire ISO of 1 post so far is being used for something.

it will make sense when you catch up

Why are people seeing scum in Black?

-Doc

She's now saying 323 was a lazy case but the timing of it felt really convenient too. Just as gob is voicing the possibility of scum!Black at the top of that page, she brings me up, like a distraction I think. It's known at that point I'm the one gob wants to lim the most toDay.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I just don't know if I buy it, I feel like it doesnt feel quite right.

[Black]

She's now saying 323 was a lazy case but the timing of it felt really convenient too. Just as gob is voicing the possibility of scum!Black at the top of that page, she brings me up, like a distraction I think. It's known at that point I'm the one gob wants to lim the most toDay

Gob's read on you did influence my decision to look at your ISO. I think he's town. I wanted to do something that could hook me but I wasn't willing to put in much effort. I just wasn't feeling it this morning, and it shows

I don't regret it though because I think I got a decent read from your reaction to it. If you're willing to trust me for now I think we have a decent chance fading scum with D&D