Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the controversial pagebottom vc

[Black]

We need to know if Dragon targeted anyone before proceeding though.
If he didn't target and there was no kill anyways it seems pretty likely the first night's lack of a kill was from scum intentionally no-killing to frame the JK target. I'm hoping this is the case because it gives us the most to work with.
If he targeted Altaria again, or targeted someone else, it's still possible scum is no-killing to frame Dragon and his targets. It seems unlikely that scum would be focus-firing Altaria on N1 and N2 with a claimed JK on the loose.

How convinced are you that I'm town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think your claim is too on the nose to come from scum unless you are informed of my role in which case you would not be so adamant about getting me to claim it.

Aside from the roleclaim, you were reluctant to come back to voting gob. I'll read it again now but I think your progression leading to you voting gob, voting someone else, and then putting gob back on E-1 seemed inconspicuous. I don't remember having any problem with it at the time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: gob

I don't understand what gob is doing but I'm not convinced he isn't just limbait.
Any particular reason to vote him?

i spent like 10 minutes looking over gob's most recently completed game because i was thinking his play is weird here and wanted to see what he was like elsewhere. he rolled scum in that game. i saw posts like 41 where he dodges a question with a question, posts like 111 where he shows disapproval of wagons for no real reason, and posts like 176 where he avoids explaining reads by saying he's just making stuff off/saying things just to say them

i haven't had the chance to read a town game of his to see if this is consistent but i want to vote here for now

these are some of the posts that stood out to me. it's not the strongest read but for page 8 it feels good enough. i also just want gob to do something instead of "taking it easy" and not taking things seriously so hopefully this helps

why is titus scum

why not?

I don't think it's Roden.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Why

Why not

I was just throwing it out there lol

I was just throwing it out there lol

So there's no reason why you feel like it can't be her? You're just saying it to say it? What's the point?

I like saying out of pocket shit to see what people say

meta is fine, and aliana just said she could see where i was coming from. i don't think she is blindly following. in fact she was trying to look for herself to come to her own conclusion

gob maybe you should get some rest

VOTE: Dragon

Lol, literally just said defcon is not a good game for a meta read on anyone.

So you voting me for doing the same thing Aliana did while I was clearly responding to things from last page?

Wtf Drew.

No I am voting you because you are throwing out reads with no substance behind them.

i like this. i got some pockety vibes from dragoneater townlocking me and i don't really think the reasons for doing so are that strong

i'm willing to give gob the benefit of the doubt for now. i feel like voting him got him to do some stuff at least

VOTE: Dragon

i would be down with an umlaut wagon btw. i think i want to lim within dragon and umlaut today

I'm also starting to get sus of Gob but I'm not sure why.

same but my read is based on the game of his i was reading the other day. he was scum with gamma and tried to act like he was ok limming them but he kept saying LAMIST stuff like "let's not hammer early" and "i think it's best we wait". i think if dragon flips scum then that could implicate gob somewhat but its not a sure thing

any crumbs?

VOTE: gob

yep i'm feeling this too

i feel a little worse about aliana as well. i'm pretty sure she said she thought gob was limbait but joined the wagon anyway

VOTE: Hu Tao

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

As opposed to the speed and nature of the wagon on Hu??

???

there's two votes on hu tao and both of them have reasons behind them

....that happened just as gob was about to be limmed.

why are you so sure gob is scum here?

drew my issue with you is you haven't really said much about or interacted with gob at all and suddenly you're fine hammering him because what...he thinks voting scum D1 is a bad idea? yes that's a pretty crappy opinion but how does that make him scum? i could maybe see if you thought he was scum with dragon but dragon claimed JK so i doubt that's how you feel

How do we go from signalling Gob to claim, to flash wagon in Hu?

This seems off.

i think the speed and nature of the gob wagon is what feels off here. i think it's more likely there is scum pushing gob than gob being scum

And why exactly does fast wagon = scum pushing? I hear this rhetoric a lot but what is the actual reasoning behind it?

it doesn't. i just have a feeling gob

is

limbait and that's an easy thing for scum to push

But the speed and nature of the wagon are what gave you the feeling that gob is limbait being pushed by scum?

i've been going back and forth on gob. the wagon dynamics made it swing the other way for now

i'm low-key getting town pings from drew here. he is acting like a frustrated townie that is upset with another townie for preventing the hammer/claim on someone he thinks is scum

the only thing i don't get is why he would be so sure about scum gob here

VOTE: gob

i don't care anymore

I mean upon further inspection you look real sus though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm going to wait for the Dragon target still. It reads to me like scum!Altaria is frustrated by a deadweight partner in a micro and that the return to gob in 492 is her giving up.

It can also be interpreted as town!Altaria being temporarily wrong about gob I guess, I remember noting something about the Hu Tao wagon, particularly where Umlaut and immediately thereafter Altaria joined the wagon. Going to find that

[Black]

I mean upon further inspection you look real sus though

I'm not sure why you needed further inspection to determine this. All of those posts you quoted minus the very last one took place before you voted for me in 482. So you should have already thought I was sus going into D2, which makes your decision to vote for no elimination even more strange after Dragon said he jailed me

[Black]

And now you recognize that it seems odd that you are so confident in town!me so you're trying to pretend like you're having conflicting thoughts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 VC 6:

DragonEater70 (5 [E-1]): Doctor Drew, Altaria, geraintm, Hu Tao, Celebloki
Umlaut (2): ssbm_Kyouko, Aliana
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (1): DragonEater70

Not voting (1): gob

Gonna follow this up with some intermediary VCs cuz something feels fishy about what I just read

Dragon claims in 431. Altaria swaps to gob in 432. Next Celebloki swaps in 436 after Altaria and Dragon both say they're okay with either gob or umlaut.
Next Hu Tao and then Alianna vote gob in 440 and 441 (ali says this is E-1), then in 442 Drew intents to hammer. 440 and 442 are 19 minutes apart
Umlaut at 445 voices he is not going to vote gob

intermediate VC as of 445

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Doctor Drew (1): Umlaut
gob (5 [E-1]): DragonEater70, Altaria, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

When Umlaut moves for Hu Tao instead of gob in 446, Altaria quickly follows Umlaut's reasoning to Hu Tao but previously was saying she was okay with Umlaut/gob. The move to Hu Tao seems inconsistent with Altaria's play so far. Then Drew says the first thing he's said all game that has really townpinged me in 449

current votes

DragonEater70 (2): Doctor Drew, geraintm
Umlaut (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Hu Tao (2): Umlaut, Altaria
gob (4): DragonEater70, celebloki, Hu Tao, Aliana

Not voting (1): gob

Hu tao, Celebloki, and Altaria were on both Dragon's and gob's E-1 wagons, feels like Altaria is not treating everyone equally here since she's now sheeping her previous POE'd lim on Hu Tao while also "liking" Celebloki (this is an older read but I dont see how Celebloki is any different than Hu Tao here, or from me, gob, or Alianna for that matter. We all want a lim that is not one of the people we think is town and as we approach deadline people are getting more aggressive with their votes. Even Altaria is doing this, so pushing Hu Tao for it is not a good look imo)

VOTE: Altaria

Reading this post again with the context that Umlaut is town, gob is scum, and my post-gob-flip opinion that Hu Tao likely didn't bus, it does seem like Altaria is scummy here. Maybe she's frustrated with how slowly the game is going as well - like we're all waiting for Dragon, maybe that post quoting all of Hu Tao's posts about waiting for Dragon is her way of expressing that frustration

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean upon further inspection you look real sus though

I'm not sure why you needed further inspection to determine this.

All of those posts you quoted minus the very last one took place before you voted for me in 482.

So you should have already thought I was sus going into D2, which makes your decision to vote for no elimination even more strange after Dragon said he jailed me

mmm no. This is reasoning scum use. I'm allowed to reread the game after flips have occurred and have new insight.

[Black]

Frustration isn't alignment indicative. It makes sense for me to be frustrated that no one but me is willing to solve until Dragon shows up

[Black]

How about a readslist kyouko?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You have mechanics going for you right now so I won't be voting but if you had no claim you would be my top candidate

[Black]

You have mechanics going for you right now so I won't be voting but if you had no claim you would be my top candidate

Cool story. What about the rest of the playerlist?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ignoring mechanics:

Drew, Dragon, geraintm - town
Hu Tao - Hu Towny
Everyone else - can get it
you - scum

[Black]

I think we no lim and let DE decide if he wants to JK Altaria again, JK someone else, or take no action. This way if DE is town here scum have to guess whether they should no kill or not, because if DE no acts and there is no kill it becomes likelier the first night was a frame-up using no kill.

If DE is scum that no killed to frame altaria this doesn't really change anything

VOTE: no elimination

This post doesn't sound like it comes from someone that thinks I'm their top candidate

[Black]

Ignoring mechanics:

Drew, Dragon, geraintm - town
Hu Tao - Hu Towny
Everyone else - can get it
you - scum

What are your thoughts on Alianna/Dannflor?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't at the time, I just saw you put gob on E-1 and then I saw geraintm hammer scum. I was looking off-wagon and for mechanical info

[Black]

mmhmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

can get it - I think Aliana was very middle of the pack and I'm scared of scum!Dann after Toriel's Skip to the Next Phase

[ssbm_Kyouko]

for what it's worth, Dann's catchup was on the nose with regards to how I'm playing. That probably is +town for him because I don't think anyone else noticed or cared what I was doing. Looks like fresh town eyes, on second thought I'd put him with Hu Tao but I'm wary of him as a deepwolf

[Black]

kyouko's ISO has a lot of shallow reads like 1043 and I think this is a scumtell of hers. I think she is aware of this which is why she followed up with 1044

You'll see similarities in Large 236 and Large 237. These games were 2 years ago and I think she's gotten better at pretending to be town since then which explains why there's slightly more depth here than in those games. But I think town!kyouko has

way

more depth than what she's displaying here. I think it's difficult for her to mimic her naturally complex town thought progressions as scum based on what I've read from her game history

[Dannflor]

dragon waiting room

[Black]

'Cause there's no comfort in the waiting room
Just nervous paces bracing for bad news
And then the nurse comes round
And everyone lifts their heads
But I'm thinking of what Sarah said
That love is watching someone die

[ssbm_Kyouko]

10:45 AM:

You have mechanics going for you right now so I won't be voting but if you had no claim you would be my top candidate

Cool story. What about the rest of the playerlist?

10:46 AM:

Ignoring mechanics:

Drew, Dragon, geraintm - town
Hu Tao - Hu Towny
Everyone else - can get it
you - scum

[Black]

?