This is such a waste, and I would be saying this even if I wasn't a claimed Miller.In post 1824, Celebloki wrote: My plan originally was to investigate the millers. If I live to and through tonight I plan to do that. I won't go further on what my crumbs meant. They do have a purpose, but it's not beneficial to town to go into them right now.
Large Normal 246: Game Over
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Yeah, they mean this:In post 1829, Dunnstral wrote:
I guess I misinterpreted this post?In post 1712, Hu Tao wrote: Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one. Protected gamma and they both died.
Oh wait I understand. Black did the first one. Black protected gamma and they both died.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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For now, sameIn post 1837, Hu Tao wrote: I'm fine with Cele not explaining.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Do you have Black, KK, and Gamma as Town and Scum because they're all 3 flipped already or are you saying those are your reads on them as of 909?In post 1847, Andresvmb wrote: I got through #909. Through there, I have the game something like this:
Town
{Black, KawaiiKame}
Strong Lean Town
{Celebloki}
Lean Town
{TimmerRC, Dunnstral [Miller Claim], Cat scratch fever, Guillotina}
Slight Lean Town
{ssbm_Kyouko [Miller Claim], Broccoli Quest 2, Random Nurse, Naerys}
Uncertain
{Hu Tao}
Slight Lean Scum
{davesaz}
Lean Scum
{Elements, Keyleth}
Scum
{Gamma Emerald}
Spoiler: With QuotesShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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ok I changed my mind, if you're Informed you need to share toDay what you're informed ofIn post 1877, Celebloki wrote: Yeah and the second I explain what I was doing I'll get flamed for revealing a potential town PR. It's better that I have the heat right now.
The only thing further I'll say is that I am not a protective, but I believe there is one. This is why I didn't believe Hu Tao so strongly yesterday and why I decided to look into it over night. I was asking about the possibility of two because I became concerned that I was misguided in thinking that there couldn't be two.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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... In the future you should probably check the person that crumbed in this scenario. Scum will sometimes leave fake crumbs for a future fakeclaimIn post 1881, Celebloki wrote: Yeah I might as well claim since it's so implied ay this point. I did soft a PR yesterday when I said:
In post 1311, Celebloki wrote: If it saves us time since we are approaching Deadline, I can go ahead and claim now before we waste time on a wagon on me.
At the time it seemed like I was about to get wagoned and we were getting close to deadline. I didn't want to waste time wagoning me into a claim, then have it dismantle and turn into a panic situation before deadline.
I'm a Town Role Cop. My original plans were to investigate Dunn or Kyouko and confirm their miller status. After Hu Tao's claim, I debated real hard over night on whether I should still check one of the millers or her. I ended up going with Hu Tao and got "Vanilla" back. Someone else dropped crumbs that apparently only I saw that makes me think there are other protectives.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Naerys was pretty hard-set on me being scum yesterDay and I think after Gamma flipped scum, Naerys realized my read on Gamma was not a performance and so she's now in a reevaluation state, so I don't think this is scum-indicative. I see what you see though.In post 1895, Hu Tao wrote:In post 1737, Naerys wrote:
Havent finished my thoughts here, lol. Sent it by mistake.In post 1733, Naerys wrote: Since i have seen town!Tao lie about being doctor, i suppose she could be town.
I dont see what scum!Broccoli would gain from defending town!Tao - more likely he would support the easy lim. Defending Hu Tao makes sense only in case of both town or both scum. Both being scum is something to think about.
Anyway, while faking doctor is something Hu Tao did as town, i think we need to look at her behavior since beginning. First she claims vanilla, then when she gets pushed she claims doctor. At the very best she feels untrustworthy, at the worst these are scummy moves. She could be doing it bcz she knows there are players who have seen her faking doctor as town, so she counts on that those will TR her.
Conclusion: flipping Hu gives us decent info. It solves potential Hu+Broccoli+Gamma buddies.
VOTE: Hu TaoIn post 1771, Naerys wrote:
I think i was hasty in believing Celebloki.In post 1768, Hu Tao wrote:In post 1231, Celebloki wrote: Even though she wants me dead, I still don't think Kyouko's the play today.
This might seem completely out of left field, but I am just pondering scenario's.In a game this size, and considering Hu Tao's claim of Complex Indecisive Doctor, is a second town protective role likely balance-wise or would that be too town sided?
UNVOTE: Hu taoIn post 1789, Naerys wrote:
If Gamma thought that Hu wont get elim, it could be possible. But yeah, thats very unlikely. Evidence points to Hu being town.Still being wary of her, though.In post 1787, Keyleth wrote:
I do agree it looks weird on paper but Gamma was trying to send Hu Tao over! Do you think Gamma was just trying to damn a partner over someone like Kyouko or myself? I guess the main question is how many of the main wagons do we believe were on a wolf between Hu Tao, Kyouko, and myself. We already know the other two were one town and one wolf. Oh this is fun!In post 1786, Naerys wrote:
maybe bcz u went from vanilla claim to doc claim. That does not make you the most trustworthy person around here.In post 1780, Hu Tao wrote: I forgot about the Miller claims. So town might have a role cop. Why cele would waste it on me, not sure.In post 1821, Naerys wrote:
VOTE: DunnstralIn post 1820, Dunnstral wrote: Lastly I think Gob lied about their reason for replacing out being that they were in too many games. Point being they joined a new game right after replacing out of this one and have posted nearly a hundred times on the site since then.
Gobs reason is his own and this post is really bad.In post 1866, Naerys wrote:
I am not trying to shift anything. I just dont know whom to trust.In post 1863, Random Nurse wrote: Naerys, understand that if Hu Tao flips Scum I will also be suspecting you because it could be seen as you trying to shift my focus away from HT and onto Celebloki.
If you're Town, understand this possibility. If you're Scum understand that I will eventually catch you.In post 1878, Naerys wrote: Hu Tao vs Celebloki could contain a scum.
Hu Tao looks much worse, that slot is untrustworthy. Starting with her is less risky than limming potential useful town PR but also her flip gets plenty of useful info.
I wanted to go this way but allowed Broccoli and Hu to make me hesitate.
Out of the 3 i feel like Hu has the best chance of rolling scum.
VOTE: Hu Tao
I just see disconnect and no real train of thought here. Just bouncing from one to the next. First I was scum. Then town. Then for some reasons Cele and me contain one scum.In post 1886, Naerys wrote:
Celebloki claimed role cop and claimed that Hu is Vanilla. Pay attention, please.In post 1885, Dunnstral wrote: You made this post and I wonder how you could reply to this without realizing Hu Tao was a Doctor claim:
This could be scum disconnected from game. I got my eyes on you.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I see Hu Tao was E-2 as of last night, could we not rush this Day please?She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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This could also just all be paraphrased from his role PM if he is really a rolecopIn post 1949, TimmerRC wrote:
Last thing I'll mention for now because I'm at work and it's getting a bit busy, but if I seem to be fixated on Celeb's claims the bolded part in the quote is part of it. That just reads like someone read the wiki and tried explaining a fake claim from that, and not someone checking their role PM.In post 1928, Celebloki wrote: I am claiming role cop, not any other kind of cop. It returns whatever the slots role is, but I don't get alignment. If the slot is VT, Goon, whatever,I'm supposed to get something to indicate it's a generic role so I don't get alignment. For Hu Tao I got Vanilla.This could mean VT, Goon, SK, whatever the basic role for a faction is.
I was excited when the game started and we had 2 Miller claims, because if I check one and get Miller, that's pretty set what it means.
From the wiki: "Vanilla players have role names that vary by faction; a Role Cop scanning these will get "Vanilla" as the response, again anonymising the win condition. Thus, a Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie (unless they have extra abilities). "
they even mention all three examples from the wiki, VT, Goon, SK.
So for the moment, I do not trust Celeb at all. Following my gut.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Just for everyone’s benefit, I checked the flips, and then in my comments used that information to clarify my positions. I used the labels {Scum} and {Town} simply to track information that’s confirmed. Anything that has a “Lean” ahead of it is my perception of a slot.-
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I saw some ridiculous snark about how my view that Black was Town or Gamma was Scum was “bold” by Hu Tao. What a joke.-
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No it's not, they're different words for the same thing. Vanilla just means unmodified - no roles whatseover. Both a Rolecop and a Vanilla Cop would get a result of "Vanilla" investigating a goon, townie, serial killer, werewolf, cultist, etc.In post 1950, Keyleth wrote: Uh, I guess I should ask is Vanilla townie different from townie?
So I'm not sure how Dunnstral got confused between Rolecop and Vanilla Cop given Celebloki's claim, as both return Vanilla when targeting a VanillaShe/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).-
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This is what I thought, but wanted to know if you were trying to pass it off as readsIn post 1984, Andresvmb wrote: Just for everyone’s benefit, I checked the flips, and then in my comments used that information to clarify my positions. I used the labels {Scum} and {Town} simply to track information that’s confirmed. Anything that has a “Lean” ahead of it is my perception of a slot.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Spoiler: Andresvmb's reads
These all feelverysafeI agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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So most of the comments embedded in that post I pushed out incorporated the benefit of the flips we do have. And I clearly labeled from where on I was reading with that benefit. I have to finalize that process but it just takes me a while. In any event, Elements is probably our best bet, as far as I have read, but I do want to finish that process. I’ll try this week but I’m busy with a lot of activities so it may drag.-
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I don’t think I would try and do such a thing as either Town or Scum - only if I was trying to destroy my own reputation. Also, I did call Black Town from very early on so I get to claim some benefit from that but I think that view was broadly shared.In post 1988, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
This is what I thought, but wanted to know if you were trying to pass it off as readsIn post 1984, Andresvmb wrote: Just for everyone’s benefit, I checked the flips, and then in my comments used that information to clarify my positions. I used the labels {Scum} and {Town} simply to track information that’s confirmed. Anything that has a “Lean” ahead of it is my perception of a slot.-
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Hu Tao claimed VT in like post 14 or something. Then way way later on, close to deadline, when they were getting close to eliminated, they claimed Complex Indecisive Doctor.In post 1987, Andresvmb wrote: In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).Gammatried to imply the Doctor claim could come from scum by claiming Gunsmith, a role that would be able to clear Millers but would get a false positive on a Scum Doctor.
I think it's pretty clear from what Gamma did that Hu Tao is town. This did not become clear until morning when Gamma flipped, so it's not an egregious scumclaim for Celebloki to have checked Hu Tao, but I really wish he had used his power some other way.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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(And Celebloki Rolecopped Hu Tao, he says they are Vanilla, which is where Hu Tao's "lying" comes into play)In post 1992, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Hu Tao claimed VT in like post 14 or something. Then way way later on, close to deadline, when they were getting close to eliminated, they claimed Complex Indecisive Doctor.In post 1987, Andresvmb wrote: In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).Gammatried to imply the Doctor claim could come from scum by claiming Gunsmith, a role that would be able to clear Millers but would get a false positive on a Scum Doctor.
I think it's pretty clear from what Gamma did that Hu Tao is town. This did not become clear until morning when Gamma flipped, so it's not an egregious scumclaim for Celebloki to have checked Hu Tao, but I really wish he had used his power some other way.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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Celebloki is so likely Town that this path is not worth pursuing. To the extent you want to dig into the Hu Tao wagon, that may be worth doing.In post 1992, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Hu Tao claimed VT in like post 14 or something. Then way way later on, close to deadline, when they were getting close to eliminated, they claimed Complex Indecisive Doctor.In post 1987, Andresvmb wrote: In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).Gammatried to imply the Doctor claim could come from scum by claiming Gunsmith, a role that would be able to clear Millers but would get a false positive on a Scum Doctor.
I think it's pretty clear from what Gamma did that Hu Tao is town. This did not become clear until morning when Gamma flipped, so it's not an egregious scumclaim for Celebloki to have checked Hu Tao, but I really wish he had used his power some other way.-
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But I agree with your preliminary assessment given the facts you’ve laid out.-
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As in - these are not slots I would be pushing in this context.-
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1989 is such a laughable reaction to being asked to actually comment on the game that I do think Elements knows they’re going to get executed today.-
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Celebloki is probably town. Hu Tao is almost certainly town. The only reason Gamma would, in her doomed moment, try to counterwagon onto a buddy (scum!HT), would be if Gamma herself had a scum PR and Hu Tao was a goon, or if Hu Tao was the strong PR and Gamma thought the wagon would not go through.
We know neither of these are the case because Gamma is a flipped Goon and we have Celebloki saying Hu Tao is vanilla, so unless you think Gamma, Hu Tao, and Celebloki are all scum together, you should not be voting Hu Tao.
If anyone does think that I'd like to know why they think HT and Celebloki are scum individually.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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I'm not saying we should be digging into Celebloki, I agree he's likely town. I think there are probably scum on Hu Tao's wagon already, maybe even a couple of them, hoping to capitalize on Celebloki's result and rush us into eliminating spewed town before we have our heads on straight.In post 1994, Andresvmb wrote:
Celebloki is so likely Town that this path is not worth pursuing. To the extent you want to dig into the Hu Tao wagon, that may be worth doing.In post 1992, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Hu Tao claimed VT in like post 14 or something. Then way way later on, close to deadline, when they were getting close to eliminated, they claimed Complex Indecisive Doctor.In post 1987, Andresvmb wrote: In any event, I haven’t read why Hu Tao is getting pushed today for some claim, but that’s a really easy way to lose the game (focusing on claims versus play).Gammatried to imply the Doctor claim could come from scum by claiming Gunsmith, a role that would be able to clear Millers but would get a false positive on a Scum Doctor.
I think it's pretty clear from what Gamma did that Hu Tao is town. This did not become clear until morning when Gamma flipped, so it's not an egregious scumclaim for Celebloki to have checked Hu Tao, but I really wish he had used his power some other way.She/Her - limited access on nights and weekends
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