Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m in the middle of a deep dive of D1 so I’ll return with all my thoughts once I’ve fully caught up, which may take a few hours.

In the mean time, VOTE: Elements.

Could you explain the reasoning for voting Elements here btw?

[TimmerRC]

What do you mean "so what?," Broccoli?

She recanted the VT claim after a PR investigative claimed she was Vanilla.

This is the optimal lim for tday, otherwise it will drag down the game until it is resolved.

I'm trying to catch up, but as of this moment, I agree with this. ^ Still a couple pages to go.

[TimmerRC]

Dave gob keyleth timmer elements andres.

I think is where I want to be today. Black seemed to be a proponent of leaving Hu Tao alive, maybe this is part of why she was killed.

Celebloki is off the list today because I can see him maybe making a poor targeting decision as town. I liked a point someone brought up about rolecopping the millers. Something like "that's the easiest way to let scum get away with a fake claim". I do think that town!Hu Tao is exactly who a scum!Rolecop would target and for that reason I dont want him to have the easy out of confirming miller claims

I also have not examined Andres' post where he has a lot of post numbers with notes in a spoiler. It could be upon reading that closely I don't want to lim him toDay.

I don't understand this post. You like the point about how claiming to plan to check the millers is an easy out for a scum, AND you think it makes sense for a scum cop to have checked Hu Tao, AND you don't want him to have the easy out of confirming millers, and yet... Celeb is off of your vote list today? And I am on your list, even though I'm the one who made the point that you say you liked, and which it seems is heavily informing your view of Celeb?

Am I misunderstanding, you seem to be contradicting yourself within the span of a single post.

[TimmerRC]

I don't have time to check where the vote is at, but my vote will be for Hu Tao. Lying, mis-claiming roles and potentially outing a doctor, these are not things a townie does in my experience.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You took my lack of interest in voting a particular player as a refusal of participation in your townblock. That feels like a form of bullying where if players don’t act in the way you want, you will eject them from your clique.
VOTE: Broccoli Quest 2
On writing that out I realized that feels pretty scum indicative because I am pretty sure that’s mafia (as in the irl crime organization) behavior? Not trying to imply anything about you personally, just saying I think a tactic like that would work for scum play.

This feels similar to how Gamma voted me btw; it should be clear BQ2 is town off this. Particularly the second half reminds me of "I feel like a bastard for this" from OMB

This is sort of directed at Andres, I'm reading your long post with post tags and notes now and I see you are not clearing BQ2 off the Gamma flip so far because Gamma didn't actually vote BQ2 earlier on

[ssbm_Kyouko]

in reading 1847 I left off at the note on 640 but I gtg now. Might try to read more on my phone but post tags are hard there, switching between tabs sucks on mobile

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dave gob keyleth timmer elements andres.

I think is where I want to be today. Black seemed to be a proponent of leaving Hu Tao alive, maybe this is part of why she was killed.

Celebloki is off the list today because I can see him maybe making a poor targeting decision as town. I liked a point someone brought up about rolecopping the millers. Something like "that's the easiest way to let scum get away with a fake claim". I do think that town!Hu Tao is exactly who a scum!Rolecop would target and for that reason I dont want him to have the easy out of confirming miller claims

I also have not examined Andres' post where he has a lot of post numbers with notes in a spoiler. It could be upon reading that closely I don't want to lim him toDay.

I don't understand this post. You like the point about how claiming to plan to check the millers is an easy out for a scum, AND you think it makes sense for a scum cop to have checked Hu Tao, AND you don't want him to have the easy out of confirming millers, and yet... Celeb is off of your vote list today? And I am on your list, even though I'm the one who made the point that you say you liked, and which it seems is heavily informing your view of Celeb?

Am I misunderstanding, you seem to be contradicting yourself within the span of a single post.

You're partly misunderstanding and partly making assumptions:

Clarifying the misunderstanding - it makes sense for scum rolecop to target Hu Tao last Night specifically. It would be an easy out to let Celebloki check Dunn and I (the Miller claims) moving forward on Nights 2 and on, as scum!Celebloki can just check other targets and say he checked us and that we are Millers.

Celeb is off my list toDay because if he is town he should be given a chance to make a not pro-scum choice with his target toNight.

You assume because it was you that pointed out that targeting millers is an easy out for scum rolecops, that I would clear you from POE. I'm not sure what gives you this idea, but it doesn't clear you in my eyes. Additionally, as I stated in the post originally, I didn't remember who made the post, I just remembered reading it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Roden - are you a miller? Gob confirmed he was when I told him his predecessor claimed it. When dave asked him to confirm if that was a joke he never replied before replacing out.

[Roden]

Not a Miller, if I was I would've confirmed that upon replacing in.

[Roden]

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

[Elements]

I very much dislike all the posts where someone is saying "x is spewed by gamma"
seems like a very good way to lose

[Celebloki]

I'm trying to reconcile Kyouko's shade on me. Maybe she really has a grudge for my 'safe' RVS vote. Maybe this is one of my patented crackpot theories, but why do I get the feeling that Kyouko and maybe Timmer are trying to push a narrative that I shouldn't be using my role to confirm millers because she really doesn't want me to target her. I feel like I'm being setup to either get mislimmed before I can try, or they are trying to convince me I should use my role elsewhere. Confirming millers imo is a good use of the role. There's not much grey area getting a Miller result on what their alignment is.

[Celebloki]

FWIW, I call it crackpot, because I do generally TR Kyouko's play here, plus it's hard to see her and Gamma as partnered unless they were doing some real distancing theater EoD yesterday. But I do love my conspiracies.

[Guillotina]

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

And when do you estimate that will be? in real life time that is.

[Guillotina]

I very much dislike all the posts where someone is saying "x is spewed by gamma"
seems like a very good way to lose

It's a very good way to lose if we let them rise on that cred without them making an effort to try to solve and win the game. What do you think of the alleged spewed town people yourself?

[Guillotina]

I'm trying to reconcile Kyouko's shade on me. Maybe she really has a grudge for my 'safe' RVS vote. Maybe this is one of my patented crackpot theories, but why do I get the feeling that Kyouko and maybe Timmer are trying to push a narrative that I shouldn't be using my role to confirm millers because she really doesn't want me to target her. I feel like I'm being setup to either get mislimmed before I can try, or they are trying to convince me I should use my role elsewhere. Confirming millers imo is a good use of the role. There's not much grey area getting a Miller result on what their alignment is.

It is your role, don't let anyone control the use of it in any way or form.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

To make clear where I stand:

Spewed town by gamma: Nurse, Guillo, Kyouko, Hu Tao(?), Myself (I already know I'm town but objectively I'm also spewed by interactions with Gamma)

Pretty towny: davesaz (mindmeld on reads), Celeb (guilty on HT felt organic), Dunnstral (I already forgot why but I'm pretty sure I have good reasons to TR this slot)

PoE left: Naerys, Keyleth, Roden, Elements, Andres, Timmer

Out of these I'm actually sus of Elements, Roden, Timmer. But I'm pretty sure this is not the exact scum team.

Choose your pick of which of these three to wagon, or make a case on any of the other three in the PoE, and I will vote there.

If it was up to me, no one would be eliminated today except for Hu Tao unless someone comes with a mech scum result on someone else.
I'm not going to delay the optimal play here, the longer Hu Tao lives the better for scum regardless of her alignment, the longer Hu Tao lives, the worse the game state will become, and it is better to eliminate her now than waiting for mylo/lylo situation to do so where we would lose if she is town.

So stop going for the suboptimal play or I'm going to have to retract my townread on you

, because I can only see scum benefiting for letting her live here. We need to know if Hu Tao is town and the only way we are finding out for sure is with her flip.

LOL

Are you THREATENING me?

I'd be down to vote Hu Tao despite my TR if it helped the game state, but not I'm not voting her on principle due to you threatening me. Reads are not punishment (or rewards). They are reads.

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Counterpoint: If she's a known fake claimer as either alignment,

her fake claim is NAI

and you gotta judge her for

other aspects of her play

.

I'm judging her for her play in this game, the point 1 which you left out and didnt comment on.

You mean the point 1 which is explicitly about fake claiming?

1)

Hu Tao claims Doctor

under pressure and at a point she was about to be eliminated which if
a) she is scum she did it to bait out the real doctor claim.
b) she is town, she risked making the real doctor counterclaim to save herself as vanilla. Vanilla has one job and that is to cover for PRs.

If you can give me ONE reason that Hu Tao is scum that doesn't include any of the following words, I might be willing to vote her:
{claim, fake, Doctor, Vanilla, role}

If she really is scum, it shouldn't be too hard to find such a reason.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Dave gob keyleth timmer elements andres.

Not gonna lie, it's kinda crazy that Kyouko has almost the same PoE as myself. EIther she's town and we're totally on the same page, or she's scum trying to pocket me (VERY unlikely because I didn't even see any other posts intending to pocket me). Also since she's spewed town by Gamma then she's probably just town on the same page as myself.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I very much dislike all the posts where someone is saying "x is spewed by gamma"
seems like a very good way to lose

A. Did you read Gamma's post flip ISO?
B. Any particular association you disagree with?

[Guillotina]

To make clear where I stand:

Spewed town by gamma: Nurse, Guillo, Kyouko, Hu Tao(?), Myself (I already know I'm town but objectively I'm also spewed by interactions with Gamma)

Pretty towny: davesaz (mindmeld on reads), Celeb (guilty on HT felt organic), Dunnstral (I already forgot why but I'm pretty sure I have good reasons to TR this slot)

PoE left: Naerys, Keyleth, Roden, Elements, Andres, Timmer

Out of these I'm actually sus of Elements, Roden, Timmer. But I'm pretty sure this is not the exact scum team.

Choose your pick of which of these three to wagon, or make a case on any of the other three in the PoE, and I will vote there.

If it was up to me, no one would be eliminated today except for Hu Tao unless someone comes with a mech scum result on someone else.
I'm not going to delay the optimal play here, the longer Hu Tao lives the better for scum regardless of her alignment, the longer Hu Tao lives, the worse the game state will become, and it is better to eliminate her now than waiting for mylo/lylo situation to do so where we would lose if she is town.

So stop going for the suboptimal play or I'm going to have to retract my townread on you

, because I can only see scum benefiting for letting her live here. We need to know if Hu Tao is town and the only way we are finding out for sure is with her flip.

LOL

Are you THREATENING me?

I'd be down to vote Hu Tao despite my TR if it helped the game state, but not I'm not voting her on principle due to you threatening me. Reads are not punishment (or rewards). They are reads.

2) We cant trust her if she is a known fake claimer as either alignment.
The optimal play is to eliminate Hu Tao to make sure she is indeed town.

Counterpoint: If she's a known fake claimer as either alignment,

her fake claim is NAI

and you gotta judge her for

other aspects of her play

.

I'm judging her for her play in this game, the point 1 which you left out and didnt comment on.

You mean the point 1 which is explicitly about fake claiming?

1)

Hu Tao claims Doctor

under pressure and at a point she was about to be eliminated which if
a) she is scum she did it to bait out the real doctor claim.
b) she is town, she risked making the real doctor counterclaim to save herself as vanilla. Vanilla has one job and that is to cover for PRs.

If you can give me ONE reason that Hu Tao is scum that doesn't include any of the following words, I might be willing to vote her:
{claim, fake, Doctor, Vanilla, role}

If she really is scum, it shouldn't be too hard to find such a reason.

So you consider a threat that i stop townreading you? Nooice! =D
If you flip scum in this game this is the post im gonna point out that spews me not partnered with you, thank you very much.

Im promoting the optimal play. This is not a case of “yeet all liars”, Hu Tao fake claimed a CCable role and put an important role at risk if it exists in this game. Whether Hu Tao is scum (most likely) or she is a high liability townie, there is no way to know as they were already copped and got caught lying so the next step after a check is the yeet! what dont you understand? Or what am i not understanding from you?

[Roden]

I really don't want to get voted out the moment I finally finish reading

And when do you estimate that will be? in real life time that is.

I finished last night. I don't think Elements is scum and would prefer Hu Tao over her. Elements feels too active and invested for me to think that this is her scum play. I don't necessarily think that she hates playing as scum, but I think she enjoys rolling town more.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

So you consider a threat that i stop townreading you? Nooice! =D

Was it NOT an attempt to bully me into submission?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Because if it wasn't then I rescind what I said in that post

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Elements feels too active and invested

Doesn't she have like 5-6 posts this day phase? Most of which are like one liners?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Okay it's actually closer to 15 posts

My b