Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

Cakez and Dunnstral playing scum objective based, and I'll quote the post with my Hu Tao case

I think that’s at most two scum, and even then it’s a stretch. I’m down to hear a Hu Tao case though.

2 is definitely not a stretch imo. if 2 of them flipped scum, i dont think the overall narrative would be 'oh, wow, im so surprised 2 of those 3 flipped scum'

so i hard disagree with it being a stretch if 2 of those 3 are scum.

i'm okay calling it a stretch if 3. i dont care to partner/associate them, all 3 of them are individual reads.

[Bingle]

TBC, I’m townleaning both Dunn and cakez.

[Bingle]

However, with me living, my theory of Bingle town read pushing me then killing me didn’t pan out, though.

I don’t think this is ever a strat scum me goes for here, tbh.

[AnimatedWiz]

I could see a world where it’s Dunn plus Bingle and RCEnigma, but I do think my read on Dunn is the strongest out of the 3 by far. I don’t like how he jumped to join Kyouko’s vote on me D1 with no explanation other than sheeping and then today claim

I’m

the one sitting back trying to be quiet when I’ve made twice the posts he has.

I don’t think all votes on me are instantly scummy, but I think a lack of solid reasoning for those votes

is

(the people who were with me in my last game can recount how I townread people voting me D1 and D2 because I agreed with their points). Dunn isn’t very convincing to me because the reasons he gives are very surface-level, and I do think he’s trying to get rid of me because I’m scumreading him.

P.S. Interesting note on the triangle: I currently townread Naerys, and I think she’s townreading me as well, so it’s more of a 2v1 with Dunn than a 1v1v1, I think.

[Bingle]

I could see a world where it’s Dunn plus Bingle and RCEnigma, but I do think my read on Dunn is the strongest out of the 3 by far. I don’t like how he jumped to join Kyouko’s vote on me D1 with no explanation other than sheeping and then today claim

I’m

the one sitting back trying to be quiet when I’ve made twice the posts he has.

I don’t think all votes on me are instantly scummy, but I think a lack of solid reasoning for those votes

is

(the people who were with me in my last game can recount how I townread people voting me D1 and D2 because I agreed with their points). Dunn isn’t very convincing to me because the reasons he gives are very surface-level, and I do think he’s trying to get rid of me because I’m scumreading him.

P.S. Interesting note on the triangle: I currently townread Naerys, and I think she’s townreading me as well, so it’s more of a 2v1 with Dunn than a 1v1v1, I think.

How do you feel about it being basically a dichotomy (trichotomy?) set up by someone you’re apparently scumreading?

[AnimatedWiz]

How do you feel about it being basically a dichotomy (trichotomy?) set up by someone you’re apparently scumreading?

Unsure, honestly—I’m not sure what RCEnigma thinks is super useful about it currently, because there are plenty more of those types of chains and 2v1s around the game wherever you look. They’re way more useful for determining associations after flips and massclaims, but this early it’s not really going to do anything, I think. Feels… fluffy, maybe?

[Bingle]

I think it makes sense in the context of having townreads on the rest of the wagon and expecting scum to be on it, but I also don't really townread the rest of the wagon individually or believe it's likely scum was excited to be on it. It makes me think RCE scum probably doesn't have partner equity with wagonmates, at the very least.

Where do you fall on the wagon containing scum?

[Bingle]

FL, I don't recall you responding to my reasoning on towncakez. Did you? If not, would you care to?

[Bingle]

Roden and I being on Gob for both of these, Roden never leaving, is pretty townie for them, imo. Like, I just don't see the purpose of going for Gob that way as scum. I won't use that defense for me, but there were much better pushes. It's confirmed to have been a lhf fade. The AnimatedWiz wagon looks bad here. It's a 'there's scum on the wagon, or Wiz is scum' kinda thing.

That's kind of exactly why I suspect Roden here. It's exactly the kind of thing that draws a lot of attention to go for, but I think no one here will think it's a stretch to say that you and me are probably the poles around which the day (and however long scum lets us survive) was going to pivot. Roden conveniently put himself in a place where he was aligned with both of us. He wasn't playing it safe, but I think he's good enough to realize we were always going to attract more attention than he was, which makes his involvement lower risk than going after the lhf gob represented would have otherwise been.

I wouldn't think Roden's gob push was scummy, except that you and I ARE in this game.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn isn’t very convincing to me because the reasons he gives are very surface-level, and I do think he’s trying to get rid of me because I’m scumreading him.

Well, no, that's your angle.

[Dunnstral]

Let's be clear here, you're scumreading me because I'm pushing you. Not the other way around.

[AnimatedWiz]

If you had a good reason to push me, and also

said

that reason, I wouldn’t be pushing you in return. You haven’t given a convincing argument yet, so of course I’ll think you’re scummy for it.

In my opinion, your behavior is better explained if we assume you’re actively trying to hide your motives and to avoid having your logic countered—why else would you do your best to give reasons for a vote that are just, “I’m sheeping,” since that’s not an actual argument.

I’m, in part, scumreading you because you’re scumreading me with no strong reasoning—and I think you’re

claiming

to scumread me because you feel threatened.

If you have better, more detailed reasoning, I’d be happy to hear it so I can take that into account on my read on you.

[Hu Tao]

@Hu Tao - do you know you’re MBTI?

INFJ. How come?

I had a reason, but forgot it in the grammar debacle.

I’m ENFJ.

Ooo. Yeah I can see that

[Hu Tao]

They feel manipulative. Going after Gob yesterday and pushing Bingle and I today.

I feel I’m pushing Hu Tao more than Bingle here. Me being alive makes Bingle town more likely after their setup yesterday.

Still not sure why I'm being scum read by you. Can you explain?

[Hu Tao]

End of day

gob

(7): Roden,

ssbm_kyouko

, AnimatedWiz, Naerys, Flavor Leaf, RCEnigma, Dunnstral
SirCakez (2): Thomith, Hu Tao
RCEnigma (1): SirCakez
ssbm_kyouko (1): Celebloki
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Roden (1): Bingle


Who was the counterwagon? Cakez? I think Wiz was the main counterwagon of Day 1.

1.05

gob

(4): SirCakez, Bingle, Roden, Flavor Leaf
AnimatedWiz (3):

ssbm_kyouko

, Hu Tao, Dunnstral
Flavor Leaf (1):

gob

Hu Tao (1): Naerys
RCEnigma (1): RCEnigma
Dunnstral (1): Thomith

ssbm_kyouko

(1): AnimatedWiz

Not voting (1): Celebloki

Roden and I being on Gob for both of these, Roden never leaving, is pretty townie for them, imo. Like, I just don't see the purpose of going for Gob that way as scum. I won't use that defense for me, but there were much better pushes. It's confirmed to have been a lhf fade. The AnimatedWiz wagon looks bad here. It's a 'there's scum on the wagon, or Wiz is scum' kinda thing.

Gob wagon can have scum or not, i think Gob's the type that scum would for sure just let town try to misfade, which is why I think it's not impossible for either 1.05 or end of day to be all town.

That being said, I think there's only 1 max scum on Gob in 1.05. If there are 2, it doesn't make a lot of sense here that Gob wagon stayed as the main one, even after Bingle/Cakez moved away. And I already explained why it's kinda weird for Roden (and myself, but I digress) to stay on Gob that way.

Also, why is Cakez on RCEnigma over me?

End of day wagon has 1 scum in Dunnstral or Naerys, or no scum at all. I'm already town reading Naerys, but for completionist's sake. RCEnigma, idk, i just dont see this as scum.

Thomith and Hu Tao on SirCakez means there's likely at least a scum in that section, and the fact that overlaps with the Wiz one, I really do think we're living in a Hu Tao Scum world.

Hu Tao, Dunnstral, Cakez is my solve right now.

Sure. Let's vote cakez or Dunn. I'm fine with either you want

[Hu Tao]

TBC, I’m townleaning both Dunn and cakez.

What? How and why?

[SirCakez]

Pretty busy today and tmrw cuz I'm flying home
The Gob lim stinks to me a bit, dude definitely didn't help himself lmfao
But I still think scum had their hands in that

[SirCakez]

VOTE: naerys I think this is a good suspect

[Naerys]

Solid town: Thomith - solves, his analysis feels logical and well thought
Maybe town: Flavor - he is aloof, but observing
Bingle -laid back at the beginning, but later he feels like he is trying to sort people

Null: Gob - unreadable pink fluff filled with pink fluff
Plus bunch of people that need to post more -Hu, SirCakez, Cele

Scumlean: Roden - doesnt do much, just some empty sentences
Kyou: Slightly better than Roden, might replace some lurkers in the null reads tbh, i feel like scum is trying to stay in the shadows at this moment

Updating this: Thom still solid town. Flavor is being flavor and i dont really have reason to suspect him at this moment.
I would love some read list from Bingle- could you please share some, when u are up to it?

Cakez i dont know so he is harder to grasp. I may need more time to get a solid read on this slot. Null for now
Hu Tao - could you write a RL please?
Cele- 505 and 508 are giving me few towny vibes
Gob-isnt being much helpful, so he could be scum, he is just hard to read for me

AWiz- feels town
Roden-shifted towards null
Dunn- idk, suspicious absence
RCE-null
kyou-shoots straight into strong town from post 477 onwards, solid solving

Arguments against gob feel solid. Possible scum team gob-dunn-rce? if gob is town vca will be interesting
VOTE: gob

This still where you are with the flip?

I still feel like there is a scum hiding in the lurkier players. Although looking at the wagon, AWiz doesnt look that good anymore. I need to reread a bit.

[Naerys]

VOTE: naerys I think this is a good suspect

Why?

[Bingle]

TBC, I’m townleaning both Dunn and cakez.

What? How and why?

I mean... I've already answered both of those.

[Bingle]

How so Bingle?

The immediate jump at FL on entry, the suspicion of you for buddying when clearly he could lean into your support if he was genuinely trying to lim FL as scum, the pandering to me while trying to lim the person I'd already explained was someone I have a really good track record at reading, the understanding that I am objectively the strongest this game.

All of these are pretty towny.

Cakez townlean.

Dunn is also a hard to pick out ISO post, but basically I don't think scum was super likely to actually quickhammer a doc claim in a gamestate where someone had just asked for a delay on the hammer.

[Hu Tao]

You don't think that could be open wolfing?

[Thomith]

Interesting night kill?

What do you mean by this? Why was Kyouko an interesting night kill?

[Hu Tao]

I didn't think she would be the night kill